Why Hide What It If There's Nothing "Wrong" With It???

[loco]

Hello, OzmO?   

It is kind of different because you were being prevented from making a choice while women's choices are being preserved.

Let them take it up with their creator.   

I believe that it is not different, because you are preventing an unborn child, a defenseless human being from making a choice to live.

[Dos Equis]

Connecticut Planned Parenthood Did Abortion in Sexual Abuse Coverup
by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
August 2, 2007

Hartford, CT (LifeNews.com) -- Police investigating a kidnapping and sexual abuse case in Connecticut have confirmed that a Planned Parenthood abortion business did an abortion on a 15 year-old girl who is the victim. The news is the latest in a string of cases across the country where abortions have been used to cover up cases of sexual abuse.

Authorities say the unnamed girl ran away from home last June to live with 41 year-old Adam Gault, who has plead guilty to a variety of charges in connection with the kidnapping and alleged sexual abuse.

After getting her pregnant, Gault reportedly took the girl to a Planned Parenthood in West Hartford where she had an abortion.

The girl would not tell abortion facility officials the name of the father. But now, according to an AP report, police say they have obtained the remains of the baby and DNA obtained form the unborn child matches Gault's DNA.

Planned Parenthood did not appear to report the 15 year-old pregnancy or her desire for an abortion to officials to look into the possibility she was sexually abused.

Police had been searching for the girl for some time and didn't stumble across her until they searched Gault's home over a month after the abortion.

Gault's attorney, Gerald Klein, told the Associated Press he was surprised to learn of the DNA and the match police found in the testing.

I thought that when a woman had a termination of pregnancy, that that was the end of it, so to speak," Klein said outside court. "But, apparently, they have the fetus."

Planned Parenthood and other abortion businesses in various states have come under fire for not reporting cases of sexual abuse or statutory rape to authorities.

In May, the employee of another Connecticut abortion business took an underage girl there for an abortion to hide his actions.

Good grief.     How do they defend this?

[Colossus_500]

Good grief.     How do they defend this?

Does that say it's all about the money or what?   

[Dos Equis]

Does that say it's all about the money or what?   

It certainly does.  It's about the money and abortion under any circumstance. 

[Al Doggity]

It certainly does.  It's about the money and abortion under any circumstance. 

I don't see it that way.

[Dos Equis]

I don't see it that way.

How do you see it? 

[gcb]

It isn't as clear cut as you guys like to make out. If they reported these cases then no one would go to them for the abortion - they might even stick with a trusty wire coat hanger or some other means of covering up the evidence. Is that a more desirable state of affairs?

[Al Doggity]

How do you see it? 

A lot like GCB sees it. I also think this case might prove to be a little more complicated than it appears. I am not a Planned Parenthood booster or anything- if they did something illegal, they should suffer the consequences- but I don't believe abortions are immoral, which just gives me a different perspective on these things.

[Dos Equis]

A lot like GCB sees it. I also think this case might prove to be a little more complicated than it appears. I am not a Planned Parenthood booster or anything- if they did something illegal, they should suffer the consequences- but I don't believe abortions are immoral, which just gives me a different perspective on these things.

You don't have to believe abortion is immoral to condemn Planned Parenthood.  You could (like me) believe men who rape girls should be prosecuted and that an organization shouldn't encourage girls to lie about being raped, or fail to report rape.  If Planned Parenthood actually reported rapists, perhaps these girls would be forced to talk to their parents about the abortion and the men who knocked them up would go to jail. 

[gcb]

You don't have to believe abortion is immoral to condemn Planned Parenthood.  You could (like me) believe men who rape girls should be prosecuted and that an organization shouldn't encourage girls to lie about being raped, or fail to report rape.  If Planned Parenthood actually reported rapists, perhaps these girls would be forced to talk to their parents about the abortion and the men who knocked them up would go to jail. 

Why don't you try reading our posts - we never said men who rape girls shouldn't be prosecuted. You think you will solve something with your approach but all you will do is bury it  deeper under the carpet. Try caring for the victims for a change instead of worrying about the dangerous people out there that will hurt you (or your family).

[Dos Equis]

Why don't you try reading our posts - we never said men who rape girls shouldn't be prosecuted. You think you will solve something with your approach but all you will do is bury it  deeper under the carpet. Try caring for the victims for a change instead of worrying about the dangerous people out there that will hurt you (or your family).

I did read your posts.  I don't think I will solve anything.  I'm talking about Planned Parenthood's activities and what I disagree with.

If PP cared about the victim they would involve the victim's parents (when the victim is a child) and help punish the perpetrator.  I see them as little more than an abortion mill.  It appears to be all about the $$.     

[gcb]

That's fine except sometimes the perpetrator is a parent/family member or a person of high standing in the community. There is no way of knowing what parent involvement will accomplish. Some people would even resent the victim and somehow blame them - these situations can be complicated.

[Dos Equis]

That's fine except sometimes the perpetrator is a parent/family member or a person of high standing in the community. There is no way of knowing what parent involvement will accomplish. Some people would even resent the victim and somehow blame them - these situations can be complicated.

Why should it matter who the perpetrator is?  If the guy is raping kids he needs to be locked up.  It's actually more beneficial to the victim and potential future victims to get a rapist off the street. 

We've debated/discussed this on here before, but I think parents should always be involved in every decision involving their child's medical procedures, including abortions. 

[gcb]

Why should it matter who the perpetrator is?  If the guy is raping kids he needs to be locked up.  It's actually more beneficial to the victim and potential future victims to get a rapist off the street. 

We've debated/discussed this on here before, but I think parents should always be involved in every decision involving their child's medical procedures, including abortions. 

It's beneficial assuming that the guy gets put away and that the victim is prepared to go to court. It is not necessarily what is best for the victim. I still don't agree that it is PPs job to police these things. A victim should have a place where they can go and get an abortion no questions asked - they've been through enough after all.

[Colossus_500]

It's beneficial assuming that the guy gets put away and that the victim is prepared to go to court. It is not necessarily what is best for the victim. I still don't agree that it is PPs job to police these things. A victim should have a place where they can go and get an abortion no questions asked - they've been through enough after all.

They don't have to "police" these things.  They just need to report it.  It's the law, just as it is when a child is brought into an emergency room and the doctor suspects abuse - the doctor is required by law to notify authorities. 

Why should it matter who the perpetrator is?  If the guy is raping kids he needs to be locked up.  It's actually more beneficial to the victim and potential future victims to get a rapist off the street. 

We've debated/discussed this on here before, but I think parents should always be involved in every decision involving their child's medical procedures, including abortions. 

Good post, Beach.

[Dos Equis]

They don't have to "police" these things.  They just need to report it.  It's the law, just as it is when a child is brought into an emergency and the doctor suspects abuse - the doctor is required by law to notify authorities. 
Good post, Beach.

Thanks.   

[Al Doggity]

I did read your posts.  I don't think I will solve anything.  I'm talking about Planned Parenthood's activities and what I disagree with.

If PP cared about the victim they would involve the victim's parents (when the victim is a child) and help punish the perpetrator.  I see them as little more than an abortion mill.  It appears to be all about the $$.     

What I was getting at, and what I think GCB was getting at, is that girls are often ashamed to admit to being raped. They also tend to keep any history of abortion secret.


In most cases, medical care  comes with an expectation of confidentiality. I don't think there's anything wrong with PP warning girls about this.

If a girl comes to the clinic and A)believes she is in love with her 23 year old bf and has no desire to see him go to jail B)believes she needs to have an abortion and c) wants to keep all of this secret from her parents then she would be shocked and devastated when all of her objectives fell through because she wasn't aware of the law. PP  has probably seen things like that happen time and again and has developed a policy of not asking so they don't have to tell.

[Dos Equis]

What I was getting at, and what I think GCB was getting at, is that girls are often ashamed to admit to being raped. They also tend to keep any history of abortion secret.


In most cases, medical care  comes with an expectation of confidentiality. I don't think there's anything wrong with PP warning girls about this.

If a girl comes to the clinic and A)believes she is in love with her 23 year old bf and has no desire to see him go to jail B)believes she needs to have an abortion and c) wants to keep all of this secret from her parents then she would be shocked and devastated when all of her objectives fell through because she wasn't aware of the law. PP  has probably seen things like that happen time and again and has developed a policy of not asking so they don't have to tell.

I understand where you are both coming from.  I think we disagree on whether PP has an obligation to report a crime and whether they should encourage girls to lie. 

It really doesn't matter whether a 13-year-old girl believes she is in love with a 23-year-old man.  She is a victim, whether she realizes it or not.  Some, if not most, of them probably don't realize this initially.  No organization should do anything to encourage these kinds of relationships.

What role do you think the parents should play in all of this?  Shouldn't the parents have a right to know (at a minimum)?     

[Al Doggity]

I understand where you are both coming from.  I think we disagree on whether PP has an obligation to report a crime and whether they should encourage girls to lie. 

It really doesn't matter whether a 13-year-old girl believes she is in love with a 23-year-old man.  She is a victim, whether she realizes it or not.  Some, if not most, of them probably don't realize this initially.  No organization should do anything to encourage these kinds of relationships.

What role do you think the parents should play in all of this?  Shouldn't the parents have a right to know (at a minimum)?     

Likewise, I can understand where you are coming from, for the most part. You've said you have two daughters.  I don't know anything about you, but judging solely by what you've posted in this thread, you would probably react rationally-understandably angry, but still rationally- were you to find out they were pregnant.

A lot  parents aren't like that. In a lot of cases, these girls would have their lives ruined if either the pregnancy, the abortion or the over-aged boyfriend were revealed. I am under the impression that PP truly believes they are working in the best interests of the girl when they ask as few questions as possible.

[Colossus_500]

A lot  parents aren't like that. In a lot of cases, these girls would have their lives ruined if either the pregnancy, the abortion or the over-aged boyfriend were revealed. I am under the impression that PP truly believes they are working in the best interests of the girl when they ask as few questions as possible.

Very true, Al.  Don't you think if forced to confront these types of issues, parents would inevitably get better at handling situations like that.  I have daughters too, and quite frankly I'm scared to death of this possibility, but I know that it could happen no matter how well I raise them, and I know that it has to be dealt with. 

[Dos Equis]

Likewise, I can understand where you are coming from, for the most part. You've said you have two daughters.  I don't know anything about you, but judging solely by what you've posted in this thread, you would probably react rationally-understandably angry, but still rationally- were you to find out they were pregnant.

A lot  parents aren't like that. In a lot of cases, these girls would have their lives ruined if either the pregnancy, the abortion or the over-aged boyfriend were revealed. I am under the impression that PP truly believes they are working in the best interests of the girl when they ask as few questions as possible.

Thanks.  I have three daughters (one son).  In a sense a girl's life is already ruined when she is raped by an adult.  Her innocence has been stolen.  I would be beyond angry if it happened to my child.  The perp would be in a little trouble.  You'd be seeing me on Court TV.   

I just don't see how keeping these kinds of monumental events and decisions from parents is a good thing.  It really is a family matter (and a criminal matter).  Cannot imagine my child going through something like this without me.   

There is also the issue of the perp continuing to have sex with underage girls, creating yet more victims. 

[Colossus_500]

Thanks.  I have three daughters (one son).  In a sense a girl's life is already ruined when she is raped by an adult.  Her innocence has been stolen.  I would be beyond angry if it happened to my child.  The perp would be in a little trouble.  You'd be seeing me on Court TV.   

I'm right there with ya, bro.     I'd be all over the news too, if something like these were to ever happen to one of my kids. 

[Al Doggity]

Very true, Al.  Don't you think if forced to confront these types of issues, parents would inevitably get better at handling situations like that.  I have daughters too, and quite frankly I'm scared to death of this possibility, but I know that it could happen no matter how well I raise them, and I know that it has to be dealt with. 

I know how scary it must be to raise children these days. I think people are starting to realize that kids can make really bad decisions no matter how well-intentioned their parents were.

However, parents frame of reference in dealing with kids is limited to their own fam. What I mean by that is a teacher might eventually alter their perception of what constitutes truly awful behavior from a student because they deal with so many kids over the course of several years. Parents only deal with their own kids, so they have standards for them that aren't necessarily defined relative to others' behavior.

[Al Doggity]

Thanks.  I have three daughters (one son).  In a sense a girl's life is already ruined when she is raped by an adult.  Her innocence has been stolen.  I would be beyond angry if it happened to my child.  The perp would be in a little trouble.  You'd be seeing me on Court TV.   

I just don't see how keeping these kinds of monumental events and decisions from parents is a good thing.  It really is a family matter (and a criminal matter).  Cannot imagine my child going through something like this without me.   

There is also the issue of the perp continuing to have sex with underage girls, creating yet more victims. 

Earlier I described this issue as complicated. I'll try to elaborate.


There's this r&b singer named R. Kelly. Most people know that he was videotaped in various sexual acts with an underaged girl a few years ago. What a lot of people don't know is that her family has been sort of uncooperative in prosecuting the case because of all the negative attention their daughter was subjected to.

He was videotaped peeing on a little girl and his career hasn't suffered a bit. He still regularly has #1 singles and people rationalize that the girl knew what she was doing, blah, blah, blah...

Blacks have a reputation for being able to look the other way when it comes to black celebrities and crime, but these aren't just black people I'm talking about. He released a song this summer called "I'm a flirt" that got regular play on Z100, which is the "white"/pop station here.

This is a common phenomenon. In any high profile rape case, people find a way to blame the female victim.

I used to be a huge Kelly fan, but not any longer and I hate the fact that his career can go on unaffected. I do not think statutory rape is right.


I also know that young teenagers do have sex and that the mental damage incurred during a consensual sexual relationship probably isn't as crippling as a forced rape or years of  incest or a high profile trial that converts you into a town pariah.

[gcb]

Good stuff Al - that was what I was getting at.