Why Hide What It If There's Nothing "Wrong" With It???

[Dos Equis]

If you see a TV commercial promoting a drive through abortion then you might have a case for encouragement.   Otherwise there is no encouragement happening other then informing people the PP office exists. 

Watch the two youtube clips and tell me they don't smack of illegality (or at least something that should be illegal):  http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=149350.0 

[OzmO]

Watch the two youtube clips and tell me they don't smack of illegality (or at least something that should be illegal):  http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=149350.0 

Both videos reminded me of those 9/11 truth vids with all the drama.   

the fist vid i could understand what they were saying and the second vid at least had text until 2:38 into it when it was turnign into a music vid and i stopped it.

Here's the thing:

PP isn't encouraging abortions but the person in the Santa Monica office was. 

Is PP publically encouraging abortions?  I don't see them doing it.

the problem with the PP employees is that when a person comes in for an abortion they are bound to ask questions and look for direction. 

Are there clear cut laws and guideline addressing these things?

[Colossus_500]

It is kind of different because you were being prevented from making a choice while women's choices are being preserved.

Let them take it up with their creator.   

I think Mother Teresa said it best when she said:  "if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another?”

I think those who are pro choice fail to deal with the reality of what we are silencing amid the noise of our "rights" - a phrase from Ravi Zacharias of which I whole-heartedly agree with.

[Colossus_500]

No, my post was 100% accurate,once again. I pointed out in my post that this is a divisive issue, like most political issues tend to be. The fact that YOU don't agree with something, doesn't make it wrong. Many things that were once illegal are now legal-they are not all comparable to slavery.



Nowhere in my post did I say that it came down to a woman's right to choose. What it does come down to is the fact that the services PP provides are legal, as of right now.

If an issue is as divisive as we both agree it is, then how is it just about me?   

[Dos Equis]

Both videos reminded me of those 9/11 truth vids with all the drama.   

the fist vid i could understand what they were saying and the second vid at least had text until 2:38 into it when it was turnign into a music vid and i stopped it.

Here's the thing:

PP isn't encouraging abortions but the person in the Santa Monica office was. 

Is PP publically encouraging abortions?  I don't see them doing it.

the problem with the PP employees is that when a person comes in for an abortion they are bound to ask questions and look for direction. 

Are there clear cut laws and guideline addressing these things?

lol.  Noooo.  Not the 911 CT videos.    No comparison IMO.  These are actual calls, not hypothetical missiles hitting the Pentagon or holograms used to fake the planes hitting the WTC. 

The first call on the second link was a girl aged 13 being told that she should not mention that the father of her baby is 22.  That was in Colorado.  Those same calls are repeated all across the country.  I don't know if there are clear cut laws addressing this, but there should be.  Regardless of what the law is, this is just wrong.  This is partly why I conclude PP is all about abortion under any circumstances at whatever cost.   

[OzmO]

I think Mother Teresa said it best when she said:  "if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another?”

I think those who are pro choice fail to deal with the reality of what we are silencing amid the noise of our "rights" - a phrase from Ravi Zacharias of which I whole-heartedly agree with.

I don't disagree with with both those quotes, but i still believe it's the mother's right to chose and she can take it up with GOD.    however, we can tell people to stop killing each other and still allow a mother to choose. 

What's funny about what she said is that most libs who support freedom of choice are very much against war while those who believe it is killing and should be outlawed usually support military action to solve problems.

I think it shows just how screwed up we are.

But that's good news in the long term idea of things.

[OzmO]

lol.  Noooo.  Not the 911 CT videos.    No comparison IMO.  These are actual calls, not hypothetical missiles hitting the Pentagon or holograms used to fake the planes hitting the WTC. 

The first call on the second link was a girl aged 13 being told that she should not mention that the father of her baby is 22.  That was in Colorado.  Those same calls are repeated all across the country.  I don't know if there are clear cut laws addressing this, but there should be.  Regardless of what the law is, this is just wrong.  This is partly why I conclude PP is all about abortion under any circumstances at whatever cost.   

For someone to even work at an abortion clinic they would have to be pro-abortion.  They have reasons why they feel the way they do and i believe if you or i had to walk in their shoes we'd might see it different.  But there is now way you or can ever do that no matter how much we claim we could.

You can't expect anyone NOT to voice their opinion when asked.

[Al Doggity]

If an issue is as divisive as we both agree it is, then how is it just about me?   

It becomes about you when you start a thread questioning its morality. When you begin projecting your own moral proclivities onto other's motivations (despite all evidence suggesting that not to be the case), then it's about you.

[Al Doggity]

That's debatable.  Is it against the law to encourage a minor to lie so she can get an abortion and to intentionally ignore the fact she has been raped solely so you can perform an abortion?  If not, it should be. 

Why? Police advise criminals of their rights to avoid self incrimination and when anyone visits a health care provider, they usually have an expectation of privacy in regards to patient/client priv. I think it's actually pretty responsible to warn these girls that that won't be the case.
 
Even though the word "statutory rape" has an almost visceral connotation, it's a complicated matter, even among prosecutors.

[Colossus_500]

It becomes about you when you start a thread questioning its morality. When you begin projecting your own moral proclivities onto other's motivations (despite all evidence suggesting that not to be the case), then it's about you.

I see the point you are trying to make, bro.  But most assuredly, you don't believe that I am the only one on this board who has a strong tendency towards protecting the unborn child.  Even those who are on both sides of the issue are close in agreement that we are talking about a human being.  I use the word "divisive" to mean polarizing, in the sense that there are many on both sides of the issue.  That's where I'm coming from.  But I understand where you were going with it. 

[Dos Equis]

Why? Police advise criminals of their rights to avoid self incrimination and when anyone visits a health care provider, they usually have an expectation of privacy in regards to patient/client priv. I think it's actually pretty responsible to warn these girls that that won't be the case.
 
Even though the word "statutory rape" has an almost visceral connotation, it's a complicated matter, even among prosecutors.

I think it's irresponsible to counsel a child to lie about being raped so she can get an abortion.  It ought to be illegal. 

I don't think "statutory rape" is complicated.  Minors cannot consent to sex.  That's pretty simple.  I've raised 13 year-old girls and they are not ready for sex and do not appreciate all of the ramifications involved with having sex.  That's why the age of consent is over 13 everywhere in this country.  A 22-year-old man who has sex with a 13-year-old girl needs to go to jail.   

[Colossus_500]

I bet if ultrasounds were made to be mandatory, we'd see the numbers of abortions in this country drop tremendously.  The "shadiness" that I think Beach Bum was trying to depict with Planned Parenthood is solidified when you hear about some places offering "discounts" for visits.  

[OzmO]

I bet if ultrasounds were made to be mandatory, we'd see the numbers of abortions in this country drop tremendously.  The "shadiness" that I think Beach Bum was trying to depict with Planned Parenthood is solidified when you hear about some places offering "discounts" for visits. 

that's not shady.  You are trying to make it do-able for people to get abortions that can't afford it and prevent unwanted babies flooding the foster care system.

[Colossus_500]

that's not shady.  You are trying to make it do-able for people to get abortions that can't afford it and prevent unwanted babies flooding the foster care system.

It is when the discount is for your "next" visit. 

[OzmO]

It is when the discount is for your "next" visit. 

??   i don't get it....what do you mean?

Would anyone who offers discounts on goods and services be considered shady for do it? 

Abortion IS legal and offering a discount is legal also.

[Colossus_500]

??   i don't get it....what do you mean?

Would anyone who offers discounts on goods and services be considered shady for do it? 

Abortion IS legal and offering a discount is legal also.

My mistake, it's $20 off on the first visit:  www.illinoisabortion.com/abortion.html

I hear what you're saying, OzmO.  Yes, abortion is legal, but you have to agree that what is the law of the land is not always equivolent the law of morality.  Yes? 

[Al Doggity]

My mistake, it's $20 off on the first visit:  www.illinoisabortion.com/abortion.html

I hear what you're saying, OzmO.  Yes, abortion is legal, but you have to agree that what is the law of the land is not always equivolent the law of morality.  Yes? 

Sure, you can make that argument. Then you'd also have to agree that what you consider moral isn't always equivalent to what others consider moral, don't you?

[OzmO]

My mistake, it's $20 off on the first visit:  www.illinoisabortion.com/abortion.html

I hear what you're saying, OzmO.  Yes, abortion is legal, but you have to agree that what is the law of the land is not always equivolent the law of morality.  Yes? 

i agree.  Morals however  differ with people and laws are set up so that a society can accommodate and respect other people's morals.   The gray area here is that we are talking about murdering a child before it's born and the line for me lies in an act that produces a victim.  the question is, is at what time does a fetus become a baby?

[Colossus_500]

Sure, you can make that argument. Then you'd also have to agree that what you consider moral isn't always equivalent to what others consider moral, don't you?

Hence, the divisiveness that I've been speaking of. 

[Colossus_500]

i agree.  Morals however  differ with people and laws are set up so that a society can accommodate and respect other people's morals.   The gray area here is that we are talking about murdering a child before it's born and the line for me lies in an act that produces a victim.  the question is, is at what time does a fetus become a baby?

I personally never knew what the answer to your question was....until the day I say my first child at a mere 6-8 wks.  Nothing but spuds sprouting for arms and legs, but MOST ASSUREDLY a heartbeat.  Man, I connected immediately with that heartbeat.  OzmO, it wasn't real to me that I was going to become a father until I saw that heartbeat.  I mean, this "fetus" had a heartbeat, which meant it was the beginnings of becoming a human being, the same person I hug and kiss every day when I leave for work, or come home years later.  It's just my thought on that.  I know others see it differently. 

[Al Doggity]

Hence, the divisiveness that I've been speaking of. 

That was my point. You are asking these questions without acknowledging the divisiveness, ignoring the fact that others feel differently than you.

I don't think there is anything wrong with abortion.

You have the right to  believe it is immoral. You have the right to believe it should be illegal. You have the right to fight to try to make it illegal as long as your actions remain within the bounds of the law.

I just think it makes you sound rather simple when you make conclusions about OTHER people's thoughts and motivations based on how you feel about something when it is clear they feel completely differently.

[OzmO]

I personally never knew what the answer to your question was....until the day I say my first child at a mere 6-8 wks.  Nothing but spuds sprouting for arms and legs, but MOST ASSUREDLY a heartbeat.  Man, I connected immediately with that heartbeat.  OzmO, it wasn't real to me that I was going to become a father until I saw that heartbeat.  I mean, this "fetus" had a heartbeat, which meant it was the beginnings of becoming a human being, the same person I hug and kiss every day when I leave for work, or come home years later.  It's just my thought on that.  I know others see it differently. 

I have 2 children.  I know exactly what you mean.  before my first one was born, when i saw the sonogram (sp),  i became anti-abortion.  I believe it's a form of murder to abort a child.  If it were that simple I'd vote against abortion.  Unfortunately it's not.

[Colossus_500]

That was my point. You are asking these questions without acknowledging the divisiveness, ignoring the fact that others feel differently than you.

I don't think there is anything wrong with abortion.

You have the right to  believe it is immoral. You have the right to believe it should be illegal. You have the right to fight to try to make it illegal as long as your actions remain within the bounds of the law.

I just think it makes you sound rather simple when you make conclusions about OTHER people's thoughts and motivations based on how you feel about something when it is clear they feel completely differently.

I give up, bro.  You're right...it's a divisive issue. 

[Colossus_500]

I have 2 children.  I know exactly what you mean.  before my first one was born, when i saw the sonogram (sp),  i became anti-abortion.  I believe it's a form of murder to abort a child.  If it were that simple I'd vote against abortion.  Unfortunately it's not.

It's the most amazing thing, isn't it?  To see a life at it's beginning stages?      That's why I was saying that if ultrasounds were mandatory before abortions were given, we'd see the numbers go down. 

[Colossus_500]

Connecticut Planned Parenthood Did Abortion in Sexual Abuse Coverup
by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
August 2, 2007

Hartford, CT (LifeNews.com) -- Police investigating a kidnapping and sexual abuse case in Connecticut have confirmed that a Planned Parenthood abortion business did an abortion on a 15 year-old girl who is the victim. The news is the latest in a string of cases across the country where abortions have been used to cover up cases of sexual abuse.

Authorities say the unnamed girl ran away from home last June to live with 41 year-old Adam Gault, who has plead guilty to a variety of charges in connection with the kidnapping and alleged sexual abuse.

After getting her pregnant, Gault reportedly took the girl to a Planned Parenthood in West Hartford where she had an abortion.

The girl would not tell abortion facility officials the name of the father. But now, according to an AP report, police say they have obtained the remains of the baby and DNA obtained form the unborn child matches Gault's DNA.

Planned Parenthood did not appear to report the 15 year-old pregnancy or her desire for an abortion to officials to look into the possibility she was sexually abused.

Police had been searching for the girl for some time and didn't stumble across her until they searched Gault's home over a month after the abortion.

Gault's attorney, Gerald Klein, told the Associated Press he was surprised to learn of the DNA and the match police found in the testing.

I thought that when a woman had a termination of pregnancy, that that was the end of it, so to speak," Klein said outside court. "But, apparently, they have the fetus."

Planned Parenthood and other abortion businesses in various states have come under fire for not reporting cases of sexual abuse or statutory rape to authorities.

In May, the employee of another Connecticut abortion business took an underage girl there for an abortion to hide his actions.