knee pain-WTF??

[overcome]

 okay so lately i decide to do a few things to make sure my knees are still goig to be good when i'm 45, or at least past 30 which is when my families usually go out.  i stopped doing leg ext cause i have heard from more then a few people that they arent good for knees, straightend up my squat form and went a lot lighter because of it. And have started doing more warmups then i should probably need just to be safe.  My leg day now consist of- 5 warmup sets of squats then 5 working sets(full squats), then 4 sets of calf presses done on leg press, 1 warmup and 4-5 working sets of leg press (feet close high on platform) then either deads or leg curls and another calf exercise. and my cardio is done on the elipicle

so heres the thing, i started this 3 weeks ago, and for the past week my knees have been killing me!  they dont hurt when i'm working out, but after i cool down they give me hell.  and my quad strength seems to have gone down. i cant figure this out and the people i talk to cant think of anything either.  I did legs yesterday and felt shitty the whole time and i've been feeling my knees more then my quads today. 

i cant figure out wtf is wrong, but i know alot of you guys have more experience then i do or the people i talk to around here.  Thanks for any help you can offer or ideas you might have, if my knees are still bothering my in a day or two i'll go get checked out before my next leg day.

[WOOO]

repost this in the injury/rehab board... take it from me they will type your eyes off about it

[pumpster]

Taking the extra time to warm up as you're doing is worth it in the long run.

You'll have to use a process of trial and error, removing one variable at a time long enough to see if it makes a difference, then going to the next.

It's possible that even light warmup squats are aggrevating your knees. I think you should try  warmups first using something else, like 4-5 minutes of stationary bike or elliptical for either a warmup or even an entire elliptical workout. See if that helps, because those forms of warmup are ideal.

If it's not the warmup, it could be the effect of standard full squats. Try variations to see if it helps: hack machine or box squats, each for a few weeks, each separately doing nothing else for quads. See if the pain goes away.

It could also be the leg curls done too early in the workout. Again remove for a while and see if the pain subsides.

[overcome]

thank you for the advice, but i dont see how leg curls would affect my knees so much, i dont do as many warm ups for hams, but i know that full squats work hams too. and even then i usually do a warmup set or two for them.  hacks have always agrevated my knees, they are easier on my back though.  i'll probably give box squats a try again, i havent done them in years, but i did have good luck with them.

[pumpster]

thank you for the advice, but i dont see how leg curls would affect my knees so much, i dont do as many warm ups for hams, but i know that full squats work hams too. and even then i usually do a warmup set or two for them.  hacks have always agrevated my knees, they are easier on my back though.  i'll probably give box squats a try again, i havent done them in years, but i did have good luck with them.

First of all, leg curls can effect the knees as can any part of what you're doing therefore don't make assumptions as to the cause (yet) if you really wanna find it.

[Hedgehog]

IMO, drop the leg press. Either you don't go deep enough on the leg press, or if you do, the leg press will start hurt your knees at heavier weights IMO.

Make sure to go ass to calves on the squats, do a few sets of front squats alternated with hack squats for supplement.

JMO.

[Princess L]

okay so lately i decide to do a few things to make sure my knees are still goig to be good when i'm 45, or at least past 30 which is when my families usually go out. 

First ~ what seems to be the primary cause?

Second ~ You need to strengthen the surrounding muscles which support the knee

Third ~ they need to be "trained" functionally for overall FUNCTION ~ which isn't going to come from mass building exercises...

...start thinking outside the box 

[kevcat]

Princess L  could you elaborate on these points?? Id like your advice

[Swedish Viking]

....or you could have a case of runner's knee-which happens in regular weightlifters all the time...in fact it's probably more common than anything else.  It's also a pretty easy fix-strengthen the Glute Med with lateral walks or the abduction machine.  This problem is pretty easily diagnosed as well-the pain should be on the outside of the knee and you should have a real tender IT band-which runs along the entire side face of your leg.  Here's what you do:if your gym has a foam roll, use it; if not, you can use a tennis ball...put the side face of your leg down on either or and, with as much pressure on the roll or ball as possible roll up and down the leg-if you find a bunch of very tender spots or 'knots,' then this very well could be your problem. 

[Princess L]

....or you could have a case of runner's knee-which happens in regular weightlifters all the time...in fact it's probably more common than anything else.  It's also a pretty easy fix-strengthen the Glute Med with lateral walks or the abduction machine.  This problem is pretty easily diagnosed as well-the pain should be on the outside of the knee and you should have a real tender IT band-which runs along the entire side face of your leg.  Here's what you do:if your gym has a foam roll, use it; if not, you can use a tennis ball...put the side face of your leg down on either or and, with as much pressure on the roll or ball as possible roll up and down the leg-if you find a bunch of very tender spots or 'knots,' then this very well could be your problem. 

Exactly what SV said.
Here are pics on how to use the foam roller http://www.performbetter.com/catalog/assets/Exercisesheets/PDF/FoamRoller.pdf

Here's a pic of lateral walks (X band walks).  Keep the knees slightly flexed during the movement.  20X3 in each direction.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2ZvZeDPZBU&NR=1