How American Muslims could become as alienated as European Muslims.

[Camel Jockey]

the muslim immigration thing is a relatively new thing. lol when all the irish, italians, various other europeans etc were moving in, they stayed in their ghettos and communities for a while, kept their own language and all, and people back then were probably saying the same thing DAMN WOPS WHY DID WE LET THEM IN THEY WONT AND CANT ASSIMILATE and look now they are all blended in, in 50-100 years most of the staunch first-generation muslim immigrants will be dead and their grandkids will be talking english and watching the NFL and giving blowjobs to negros.

hahaha, I love you.

What you said is true though. Greasers and what not were given their due time and had things like the mafia that kept criminal connections to their homeland.. That stuff is glorified in films. I've always said that most of the muslims in the US do integrate and a lot even abandon the islam nonsense(like me). Even though NYC and other places have little enclaves where immigrants can live amongst themselves, they're still subject to learn english and do most of the time(however shitty). By the second generation they're off to school and on the course to be professionals.

The problem is that it takes only one durka durka jihadist to cause major damage. One to spread lies and poison minds.

If the US does have an integration problem.. Then it's with hispanics. And there are a lot more problems than fearing brownies not integrating. Look at the school systems. In NYC, something like 50% of the children are not reading and writing proficient. And if you are gonna make points about muslims causing problems, then please do the same for blacks commiting crimes are a huge rate and the immigration problem with mexico. Dunno about you, but I've never been a victim of terror, but I have been a victim of pressing "1" for english and having my family businesses robbed by blacks.

Al does have a valid point. The immigrants coming these days are different from what came in a decade ago, but I think they'll still do well by the second generation due to the culture of the US. The welfare programs of this country aren't sufficient to feed a family, so most immigrants do work. They even have trademark businesses. Look at the gas stations, repair shops and resteraunts.

If terrorism weren't a problem, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Lets face the facts here. Many mideastern and south asian immigrants are pretty sucessful in comparison to the people are being allowed to waltz through the borders unchecked and some of people who are already here.

[Al Doggity]

Your post conflates a lot of important points and ends up at the wrong conclusion.

There are successful muslim immigrants, but there are also a  lot who aren't successful.

 South East asians have the highest welfare participation rate of ANY American ethnic group and that includes Blacks. There are more overall Blacks on welfare, but that's because it's a larger ethnic group. In New York, the poorest ethnic groups are of Muslim and Asian descent.

Crime rates invariably skyrocket among first generation immigrants and that is particularly true among poor South East Asians.


I've posted links to studies confirming this stuff here before.

The point of the article is that Muslims have been well-behaved, thusfar, because of America's selectivity. If the conditions that resulted in the Muslim populations in European countries are intituted here, then we will ultimately face the same results.

[24KT]

The answers a person will have on these types of topics is all dependant on the experiences you've  had with the people in question. If you think that certain groups are going to assimilateas well as others have then your dreaming.

Your from Canada, you should know that this kinda stuff is even more prominate here than in the US, hell, we don't even call it a "melting pot", so what makes you think that todays immigrants have any reason for assimilating to "our ways"?

Experiences will bare some weight in one's opinions, ...and being from Toronto, the most ethnically diverse city in all of Canada, I think I am a pretty good judge of how immigrants assimilate, ...or not.

You read the news lately? Muslim drivers refusing to drive blind people with guide dogs cause being around a dog is against their religion. Punjabi's having parades where they praise the bombers of Air India, when they should just leave that type of hate whereever they came from.

I've never heard of that happening in Canada. When did this happen?

Wealthy Chinese that don't need to learn anything about our way of life cause they can afford not to have to,

{giggle} ...sounds to me like he's learned ALOT about our way of life"

Yes, I'm generalizing but you seem to have a defending answer for everything even when it's wrong.

Who says I'm wrong, ...certainly not the facts. 

[24KT]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1882115/posts

Well let's see... something happens clear on the other coast of canada, and I don't find out about it within 24hrs?
I guess that makes me woefully uninformed then. 

I have made my views clear about this type of thing before. The only incident that I had previously heard about, was in Boston I think... or somewhere near there, and as I said then, the cabbie is in the wrong line of work. I applaud the decision rendered in this case, and I further applaud the fact that the passenger is not required to state his physical challenge to dispatch ahead of time. I think it could have gone further, ...but it was a good decision.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/sikh-politics-canada/index.html

For someone who claims to be informed you really dont know much about these things Jag. There are many more instances where certain groups do not want to assimulate and it doesnt end with just the first generation, it's passed on to the next generation.

I fail to see how this issue is one of a desire NOT to assimilate?
Assimilation is not the discarding of one's culture or traditions, and the adoption of another.
In my view, assimilation is the blending into... It's not about tossing the masala recipe in favour of poutine.
 
As for this incident, I believe heads are rolling all over BC as a result of this gaffe, ...and I believe it to be a gaffe. There is no doubt in my mind that ignorance played a huge part in this, and that those politicians who attended had no idea who these people were. I think they showed up for a photo-op, and have mud all over their faces, and haven't a clue how to live it down. I don't for a minute believe they would have either attended or been seen with those individuals had they known. From what I've been able to gather thus far, ...what occurred is no different from seeing IRA supporters in the crowd at the annual St. Paddy's day parade in NY. Or pictures of George Wallace and the confederate flag in some parades stateside. Unfortunate, ...but it happened, ...and most probably will happen again. It doesn't however mean the country is going to hell in a handbasket

How many other immigrants get to carry knives around like the kerpan due to "religous reasons"? How many other immigrants got the Mounties to change the traditional headgear to suit their "religous beliefs"?

For the record, the mounties did not change their traditional headgear. They simply allowed an additional option.
I liken it to having skirts. Traditonal police wear did not include skirts until the inclusion of women on the force. Now women on ceremonial occasions can wear skirted uniforms. It does not however require the men to also wear skirted uniforms, ...it is merely an option, ...as is the kilt for those of Scottish descent. No biggie, ...just a mountain out of a mole-hill.

I'm not really that choked with the people in question, I'm more choked with the politicians that cater to their every whim for votes and or because these people have the money to get whatever it is they want instead of changing like everyone else did.

Politicians catering to the rich, ...well isn't that a shocking surprise... NOT!
Politicians don't particularly care about race or ethnicity, ...they care about money, and votes. Nothing new there.
The overwhelming complaints only come in however, when the money and the votes come from groups outside of the usual status-quo. That's when members of the public start seeing race as the issue, ...when in reality the issue is the politician's penchant for pandering to votes and money. 

If you live in BC and seriously believe this incident was not a gaffe by politico's whose offices failed to provide proper recon prior to the parade, ...make it known to them that you believe their disregard for Canadian lives, and their support of terrorists has caused them to lose your vote. Why not vote instead for those Sikh politicians who denounced the inclusions in the parade, ...or who avoided the parade altogether? If not, STFU. please & thank you.

ps: - This thread is about Muslims, ...not Sikhs. 

[CQ]

On a somewhat offtopic point about immigration and assimilation is throughout history one group have never, ever done that whatsoever.

If one goes way back in history and looks at the Europeans landing in the USA, they began with killed the Native Indians etc....did far from assimilate....the exact opposite. Same with the Europeans landing in South America and the Mayans/Aztecs etc. Same with the Europeans landing in Australia with the Aborigines. Same with the Europeans landing in the Caribbean with the Taino/Garifuna etc. The same principle applies worldwide.

My only general point being refusing to assimilate is not an issue of only one people, it occurs worldwide and throughout history has been done profusely. Even present day, the foreigners that move here to my island generally do not assimilate, and cause problems [terrorism no, but social problems]. I do believe if one moves to another nation, they should respect the ways of that nation....or if not go back home already......

[Nordic Superman]

On a somewhat offtopic point about immigration and assimilation is throughout history one group have never, ever done that whatsoever.

If one goes way back in history and looks at the Europeans landing in the USA, they began with killed the Native Indians etc....did far from assimilate....the exact opposite. Same with the Europeans landing in South America and the Mayans/Aztecs etc. Same with the Europeans landing in Australia with the Aborigines. Same with the Europeans landing in the Caribbean with the Taino/Garifuna etc. The same principle applies worldwide.

My only general point being refusing to assimilate is not an issue of only one people, it occurs worldwide and throughout history has been done profusely. Even present day, the foreigners that move here to my island generally do not assimilate, and cause problems [terrorism no, but social problems]. I do believe if one moves to another nation, they should respect the ways of that nation....or if not go back home already......

Oh, then it that case it's absolutely fine for muslim immigrents to rape, live off welfare, spread hatred against non-muslims.

[Nordic Superman]

I dont thinkthats what she's saying. she's basically saying respect the laws of the country you live in or get out.

No, I agree with her points, but I suspect her motive in posting such a responce was maybe due to sympathising which such groups. In way, move the pointing finger away from the muslims, and put it on the shoulders of white man and other groups.

[24KT]

Muslim, Sikh, Chinese, whatever, it's about new immigrants in general that refuse to adapt to what we have held as a tradition or law and have us change it for them and therefore alientate themselves. It's about new immigrants bringing all their hate and violence into a country thats suppose to respect other peoples views and beliefs. The topic did change a bit but it all ties into one another.

I hear what you are saying, ...but I respectfully disagree. I believe you are unable to get past a small portion of that article to hear the entirety of it. The biggest protests came from the Indian community. It would appear that they do want to leave the hate and violence behind, and are denouncing the small group that do not. The same thing occurred in US history when the Baptists sought assurances from Thomas Jefferson that they would not be tormented in this new land, and that they could leave the religious persecution behind them.

Your problem Jag is that you come from a small minority. You have to pretty much fend for yourself. When you have a large population of a particular group wether its Muslim, Hindu, or Chinese, you'll find that these people will only stick with each other, shop at their own stores, read their own papers, continue with practices that only happen in their own country and may not jive with the laws of the country they live in now, etc... you think those people will change?

That is the crux of it isn't it? Until minority groups and their desires, tastes, and issues that are important to them are not excluded from the mainstream, you will continue to see ethnic enclaves, and ethnic newspapers, and ethnic specialty stores etc., As for your comment "These people will only stick with each other", ...I disagree, and suggest you come to Toronto next year during the annual CHIN picnic, ...and see how people interact with each other. "Shopping in their own stores", ...that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Come visit my local grocery store, ...see all the different ethnicities who shop there. It has increased greatly, since established chains saw the wisdom of "including" foods that were in demand by the overall population. Assimilation is inclusion, it is not the "borg-like" representation we see in Star Trek Voyageur. That's as ridiculous imo as saying that 'Body builders don't want to assimilate and be mainstream. They shop in their own stores, read their own magazines etc'. How many body builders would happily purchase their supps in their local supermarket, ...if they were available? How many would happily buy their "juice" in their local pharmacy, ...if it were available... rather than risking getting God knows what off some questionable shady supplier off the net? When you add sugar to your coffee, it does not change the nature of the coffee, ...it is still coffee, ...simply made a little more sweet.

I think the CBC story illustrates that they don't.

I think the CBC story illustrates how ignorant certain Canadian politicians are with the history of their constituents.

[24KT]

I do believe if one moves to another nation, they should respect the ways of that nation....or if not go back home already......

In 1000% agreement with you there.

[24KT]

I am from Toronto, I was born there.

When did you last live here?

Have you been to the west coast? It'll change your mind big time on the way you view some things.

I admit I have not.

[Camel Jockey]

I was in Cambridge, Mass for two days and saw the Harvard campus.. Lots of south asian/east asian immigrants there relative to their joint US populations. I didn't get to check out MIT, but I did see the front entrance.  Harvard was pretty diverse.