Author Topic: front squats or basic squats?  (Read 6484 times)

EL Mariachi

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front squats or basic squats?
« on: August 16, 2007, 08:57:30 AM »
So im training at home now, in my cage, its great. but i have some problems with regularsquats, i just cant seem to find the right form, im 1,85 cm tall, thats like 5 11. I just cant keep my back straight when doing regular squats, otherwise i get the feeling i would fall, if i do them like arnod in pumping iron, that way i have a btter grip but the lover back takes the movement over, and i cant go deep.

With front squats it feels much better, i an get as deep as i like, and the form is perfect, its only not so comfortable on the front delts cause the weight is resting on them, but thats the price im willing to pay.any of you have these issues?


Triple-H_2005

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2007, 09:17:31 AM »
I'm tall (6'2") and have similar issues with regard to squatting.  In a standard squat, I feel like I'm pitching forward & all the stress is on my hip joints & lower back.

I definitely prefer front squats, I can get a full ROM, and a great quad workout.  The best part is, I stand more upright and don't feel like I'm gonna eat the mat!  When I want to hit my glutes and adductors (like I would with regular squats) I do box squats to parallel. 


candidate2025

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2007, 09:18:34 AM »
is this guy really triple h??


if so, i fucking hate you dude. stone cold steve austin would smash on you back in the day.
d[-_-]b actin all cool

Benny B

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2007, 09:35:52 AM »
Front squats are terrible for me. To each his own.
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Jr. Yates

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2007, 10:02:23 AM »
I like both.
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XFACTOR

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2007, 10:06:43 AM »
is this guy really triple h??


if so, i fucking hate you dude. stone cold steve austin would smash on you back in the day.

I figured you would be the type to follow wrestling.  So we know you wear a helmet and watch wrestling. 

triple_pickle

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2007, 10:18:03 AM »
i do both, do what's comfortable to you

EL Mariachi

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2007, 10:24:12 AM »
Front squats are terrible for me. To each his own.

in the beginning front sq felt terrible for me too, very awkward in the beginning, now i like it a lot, now i mastered it. the advantage with the front sq is that it allows your back to stay vertical, thats the perfect form for any squat, but its real hard to do regular squats withhout bending the lower back, almost impossible to do.

EL Mariachi

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2007, 10:33:13 AM »
this is the power rack im using, i have a bench with it that allows me to do also decline press and shoulder press. 
for legs i do the following excersizes:

front squats
lunges
shiffleaged deadlift
calves: dictionary barefoot raises ( ive made more results in 3 months doing these dictionary's than 7 years using the gym equipment bullshit)

I think these movements will give you better legs then the excersizes in the gym like leg press, what do you think about that?

For back i do:
barbell rows
t-bar rows
pull ups

What do you think if you let a pro-bodybuilder only use this equipment, would they suffer any muscle?


kh300

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2007, 10:37:00 AM »
im 6'4,, ive tried a thousand times but i cant squat for shit, unless i have 10 pound plates under my heels.. im not sure what that does but my back stays strait and i can get all the way down

Benny B

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2007, 10:39:42 AM »
in the beginning front sq felt terrible for me too, very awkward in the beginning, now i like it a lot, now i mastered it. the advantage with the front sq is that it allows your back to stay vertical, thats the perfect form for any squat, but its real hard to do regular squats withhout bending the lower back, almost impossible to do.
God bless ya' for mastering the form on front squats. After weeks of dealing with a rolling bar that was putting more strain on my shoulders and arms than my legs, I said "screw this crap" and went back to regular squats.
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Stavios

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2007, 10:42:09 AM »
I highly prefer front squat and hack squat for the quads !
regular squat are better to hit everything (glutes, hams, quads)

but for quads nothing beat front squats

and finish the thing with some sissy squats, those are killer

EL Mariachi

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2007, 10:44:17 AM »
im 6'4,, ive tried a thousand times but i cant squat for shit, unless i have 10 pound plates under my heels.. im not sure what that does but my back stays strait and i can get all the way down

i always thaught that was bullshit, but i will definetely tryt that, it makes a lot of sence really, it gives you better stance and gripp of the feet i quess, ill try those.

Mike

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2007, 11:16:37 AM »
i always thaught that was bullshit, but i will definetely tryt that, it makes a lot of sence really, it gives you better stance and gripp of the feet i quess, ill try those.

From Mike Boyle:

1) Switch to Front Squats

Back pain has three root causes as it relates to lifting. Torque (forward lean), compression (high spinal loads), and flexion are what cause back injuries. Front squats lessen torque, compression, and flexion, and are therefore inherently safer.



I've written before that you can't front squat badly. The truth is you probably can front squat badly, but it's a lot easier to back squat badly. In general, if you front squat poorly, you'll dump the bar.

However, there are three major reasons people still do back squats versus front squats:

1. They always have. (A bad reason, but people really hate change.)

2. They can lift more weight. (Ego is always a big problem).

3. They perceive front squats as difficult due to poor wrist flexibility.

Number three is easily solved with an old Charles Poliquin trick. Just add straps to the bar.

 

The truth is that front squats decrease spinal load and improve back position — two positives in my book. My athletes and clients haven't done a back squat in about seven years. We have very little back pain. We still front squat relatively heavy. My college players front squat between 300 and 350 pounds to powerlifting depth at bodyweights of 180-200 with no wraps and usually a Velcro belt.

Triple-H_2005

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2007, 11:19:56 AM »
is this guy really triple h??
Heh.  No.  I just used to watch & HHH was my fave when I registered on this board.

sgt. d

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2007, 11:25:22 AM »
Front

EL Mariachi

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2007, 11:28:21 AM »
From Mike Boyle:

1) Switch to Front Squats

Back pain has three root causes as it relates to lifting. Torque (forward lean), compression (high spinal loads), and flexion are what cause back injuries. Front squats lessen torque, compression, and flexion, and are therefore inherently safer.



I've written before that you can't front squat badly. The truth is you probably can front squat badly, but it's a lot easier to back squat badly. In general, if you front squat poorly, you'll dump the bar.

However, there are three major reasons people still do back squats versus front squats:

1. They always have. (A bad reason, but people really hate change.)

2. They can lift more weight. (Ego is always a big problem).

3. They perceive front squats as difficult due to poor wrist flexibility.

Number three is easily solved with an old Charles Poliquin trick. Just add straps to the bar.

 

The truth is that front squats decrease spinal load and improve back position — two positives in my book. My athletes and clients haven't done a back squat in about seven years. We have very little back pain. We still front squat relatively heavy. My college players front squat between 300 and 350 pounds to powerlifting depth at bodyweights of 180-200 with no wraps and usually a Velcro belt.


thats good info mike, i do them ronnie-style with arms in a X-cross, what do you think of that technique? do your clients have delt pain due to the heavyfront squats?

Mike

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 11:39:10 AM »
Ronnie style is good, but we like to do them in the "rack" or clean position but that can be tough on peoples wrists.  We do that becuase you are holding onto the bar as opposed to just holding it to your delts.  It's also a good primer for push presses and cleans.

The picture where she usues the straps is my favorite, you just wrap the straps on the bar like they were on your wrist, then wind the excess around your hands and hold them like you're holding 2 dumbells side-by-side on your delts.  No pressure on your delts and the bar is very secure.

sgt. d

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 11:44:12 AM »
Ronnie style is good, but we like to do them in the "rack" or clean position but that can be tough on peoples wrists.  We do that becuase you are holding onto the bar as opposed to just holding it to your delts.  It's also a good primer for push presses and cleans.

The picture where she usues the straps is my favorite, you just wrap the straps on the bar like they were on your wrist, then wind the excess around your hands and hold them like you're holding 2 dumbells side-by-side on your delts.  No pressure on your delts and the bar is very secure.

I usually do them ronnie style too and work up to 4 plates a side. Is it easier to do it the other way

EL Mariachi

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2007, 11:46:22 AM »
Ronnie style is good, but we like to do them in the "rack" or clean position but that can be tough on peoples wrists.  We do that becuase you are holding onto the bar as opposed to just holding it to your delts.  It's also a good primer for push presses and cleans.

The picture where she usues the straps is my favorite, you just wrap the straps on the bar like they were on your wrist, then wind the excess around your hands and hold them like you're holding 2 dumbells side-by-side on your delts.  No pressure on your delts and the bar is very secure.

somebody stole my straps in a gym some time ago, i need to buyme some damn straps.

Mike

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 11:51:32 AM »
I usually do them ronnie style too and work up to 4 plates a side. Is it easier to do it the other way

Yep

jaejonna

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2007, 12:02:33 PM »
I like that adding straps to the bar thing for fronts, ill try it tonight or tommorrow...(might skip tonight)  The worst thing with font squats have been the soreness in the fron delts from the weight. Eventhough i only go up to 275.
L

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2007, 01:11:57 PM »
Regular squats are better for size IMO. Shouldn't be any balance issues by trying:

-A 2" block under the heels. Much easier to do regular squats with no balance issues this way.

-Box squats


I would only do front squats for a more specific purpose, such as developing the teardrop.  Some like em though.

That cage with a pulley and chin attachment will work as well as gym equipment.

triple_pickle

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2007, 01:31:29 PM »
an olympic lifter told me that doing front squats with your arms crossed signals that you are not flexible enough in your shoulders but i have always done them this way.  if you do olympic weightlifting then doing it their way is logical as it prepares you for the clean and jerk.

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Re: front squats or basic squats?
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2007, 01:46:20 PM »
So im training at home now, in my cage, its great. but i have some problems with regularsquats, i just cant seem to find the right form, im 1,85 cm tall, thats like 5 11. I just cant keep my back straight when doing regular squats, otherwise i get the feeling i would fall, if i do them like arnod in pumping iron, that way i have a btter grip but the lover back takes the movement over, and i cant go deep.

With front squats it feels much better, i an get as deep as i like, and the form is perfect, its only not so comfortable on the front delts cause the weight is resting on them, but thats the price im willing to pay.any of you have these issues?




I know EXACTLY what you mean.  A few years ago I injured my lower back doing ATF squats a little too fast  :-[

Got a little too cocky  ;D  Anyways, since then I've still been struggling to get my groove back with normal squats...and now three years later I'm still not where I used to be.  So i've added front squats to my routine regularly....

Front squats are not for the weak!

Bottom line, you can't cheat on them!  Anyone I ever lift with, or any of my clients that normal do partial squats with 3-4 plates struggle with a plate on front squats...cause if you cheat and go down partially the weight will pull forward, you have to go all the way down!  But it's added tremendous depth to my lateralis....

For the most part, if someone can rep out some serious weight on the front squat...they probably don't have small legs  ;)
just not good enough