Planned Parenthood - Morning After Pill

[Al Doggity]

If Plan B contains no estrogen and the earlier studies involved elevated levels of estrogen, then the studies have no relevance to the safety of Plan B, right? 

That's really grasping at straws.

[Dos Equis]

That's really grasping at straws.

I'm not grasping at anything.  Just asking a question.  Why cite a study involving a different hormone/drug? 

Also, even if you conclude estrogen and the active ingredient in Plan B are the same (I have no idea), the 1969 research showed a link between elevated estrogen and a number of health problems:

"By 1969, ongoing research had revealed that the risks of blood clots, heart
attack, and stroke were directly related to the amount of estrogen in the
various versions of the pill."

[24KT]

I'm not grasping at anything.  Just asking a question.  Why cite a study involving a different hormone/drug? 

Also, even if you conclude estrogen and the active ingredient in Plan B are the same (I have no idea), the 1969 research showed a link between elevated estrogen and a number of health problems:

"By 1969, ongoing research had revealed that the risks of blood clots, heart
attack, and stroke were directly related to the amount of estrogen in the
various versions of the pill."

Beach, to get a better understanding of this, you need to know how female oral contraceptives work.

1st. The estrogen in the birth control pill fools the body into believing the woman is pregnant. This way, an egg does not grow to maturity and get released from the ovaries from month to month. It also makes a woman's hair grow thicker and makes the boobies bigger.

2nd. The progestin, or other active ingredients thicken the protective cervical plug, so that in the event that an egg does get realeased, any swimmers trying to get up there to fertilize it, has a really hard time getting through.

3rd, They cause the endometrial lining to become an unreceptive host.

What the morning after pill does is a turbo charged version of #3. It cause the endometrial lining to become a bad host, so a fertilized egg will not implant itself to the womb.

So it is possible to have an effective morning after pill that doesn't contain estrogen.

[Al Doggity]

I'm not grasping at anything.  Just asking a question.  Why cite a study involving a different hormone/drug? 

Also, even if you conclude estrogen and the active ingredient in Plan B are the same (I have no idea), the 1969 research showed a link between elevated estrogen and a number of health problems:

"By 1969, ongoing research had revealed that the risks of blood clots, heart
attack, and stroke were directly related to the amount of estrogen in the
various versions of the pill."

Estrogen and Progestin are two different hormones that are BOTH used in birth control.  According to the FDA, the estrogen was the cause of limited health concerns and the levels of estrogen have been steadily decreased since the pill's inception. Estrogen is not in plan B.

[Dos Equis]

Beach, to get a better understanding of this, you need to know how female oral contraceptives work.

1st. The estrogen in the birth control pill fools the body into believing the woman is pregnant. This way, an egg does not grow to maturity and get released from the ovaries from month to month. It also makes a woman's hair grow thicker and makes the boobies bigger.

2nd. The progestin, or other active ingredients thicken the protective cervical plug, so that in the event that an egg does get realeased, any swimmers trying to get up there to fertilize it, has a really hard time getting through.

3rd, They cause the endometrial lining to become an unreceptive host.

What the morning after pill does is a turbo charged version of #3. It cause the endometrial lining to become a bad host, so a fertilized egg will not implant itself to the womb.

So it is possible to have an effective morning after pill that doesn't contain estrogen.

Thanks for the explanation.  So like I said earlier, studies using elevated levels of estrogen aren't relevant to the morning after pill if the morning after pill contains no estrogen.   

[Al Doggity]

Thanks for the explanation.  So like I said earlier, studies using elevated levels of estrogen aren't relevant to the morning after pill if the morning after pill contains no estrogen.   

No. For some reason, you keep ignoring the fact that the original pills also contained high levels of progestin. I'm sure it's not intentional, so I'll explain it again. 

Old birth control contained estrogen and progestin.

High levels of estrogen was found to cause occasional side effects. Progestin was deemed safe.

Plan B contains progestin-  lower levels than birth control contained for 20 years.

Plan B doesn't contain the hormone that is considered potentially harmful.


If you find something else to misunderstand, just post it. I'll try to clear it up for you.

[Dos Equis]

Estrogen and Progestin are two different hormones that are BOTH used in birth control.  According to the FDA, the estrogen was the cause of limited health concerns and the levels of estrogen have been steadily decreased since the pill's inception. Estrogen is not in plan B.

If Plan B contains no estrogen, and estrogen and progestin are different hormones, then what is the point of referencing estrogen studies?  

"Limited health concerns"?  "blood clots, heart attack, and stroke"  You called those limited health concerns?

As I suspected, the morning after pill does not have the identical ingredients of pills that have been on the market for 50 years.  Here is an 05 statement from the FDA chief:  

"Plan B has been referred to as emergency contraception. It contains one of the same active ingredients used in ordinary prescription birth control pills -- only in the case of Plan B – each pill contains a much higher dose and is taken in a different way."

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2005/NEW01223.html

Lester M. Crawford is a "pro life activist."  

[Dos Equis]

No. For some reason, you keep ignoring the fact that the original pills also contained high levels of progestin. I'm sure it's not intentional, so I'll explain it again. 

Old birth control contained estrogen and progestin.

High levels of estrogen was found to cause occasional side effects. Progestin was deemed safe.

Plan B contains progestin-  lower levels than birth control contained for 20 years.

Plan B doesn't contain the hormone that is considered potentially harmful.


If you find something else to misunderstand, just post it. I'll try to clear it up for you.

O.K.  Here is your post that started this exchange.  Where exactly does it say elevated levels of progestin was deemed safe? 

I guess you're done with this topic, BB, but I just wanted to let you know that there actually HAVE been long term studies performed on prolonged high dose usage of birth control hormones.
 
I posted earlier about the research I had to do on birth control options for an account I was working on last year. When we were discussing the hormone dosages in regular birth control versus MAP, it reminded me that birth control used to contain a lot more progestin.

I was going to look up some stuff in medical journals, but when I worked on that account I was with a different agency and we don't have access to certain medical journals with our LexisNexis subscription at my current place of employment.


But I  found a webpage that gives some suitable info. This is from the FDA's official website:
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00027.html

"The first oral contraceptives contained 100 micrograms (mcg) to 175 mcg of
estrogen and as much as 10 milligrams (mg) of progestin--significantly higher levels of both hormones than in today's pill."

That's actually more than the .75 mg of progestin in the morning after pill.

A few interesting quotes:

"By 1969, ongoing research had revealed that the risks of blood clots, heart
attack, and stroke were directly related to the amount of estrogen in the
various versions of the pill."

"By the mid '70s, most women who used oral contraceptives were taking pills
that contained 50 mcg or less of estrogen--a considerable decrease over the
100 to 150 mcg of the '60s."


"One of the major problems of the studies to date, says Corfman, is that all
the data reflect the effects of the higher-dose pills"



"In addition to its contraceptive effectiveness, the pill has proven to have
significant health benefits. Studies show that the incidence of ovarian and
endometrial cancers, benign cysts of the ovaries and breasts, and pelvic
inflammatory disease decreases with pill use."

[Al Doggity]

O.K.  Here is your post that started this exchange.  Where exactly does it say elevated levels of progestin was deemed safe? 

"By 1969, ongoing research had revealed that the risks of blood clots, heart
attack, and stroke were directly related to the amount of estrogen in the
various versions of the pill."

[Dos Equis]

"By 1969, ongoing research had revealed that the risks of blood clots, heart
attack, and stroke were directly related to the amount of estrogen in the
various versions of the pill."

C'mon Al.  Aren't you taking liberty with that quote?  It doesn't say all of the "various versions of the pill" contained both estrogen and progestin and it doesn't say there were no risks associated with elevated levels of progestin. 

In any event, if the comments I just posted from the FDA chief are accurate, the morning after pill contains multiple ingredients.   

[Al Doggity]

C'mon Al.  Aren't you taking liberty with that quote?  It doesn't say all of the "various versions of the pill" contained both estrogen and progestin

Yes, it does. Read the article.

and it doesn't say there were no risks associated with elevated levels of progestin.

 

It also doesn't say that there were no risks associated with the placebo sugar pills, either. If there were risks associated with the progestin, they would have been listed.

 

[Al Doggity]

In any event, if the comments I just posted from the FDA chief are accurate, the morning after pill contains multiple ingredients...

As I suspected, the morning after pill does not have the identical ingredients of pills that have been on the market for 50 years.  Here is an 05 statement from the FDA chief: 

"Plan B has been referred to as emergency contraception. It contains one of the same active ingredients used in ordinary prescription birth control pills -- only in the case of Plan B – each pill contains a much higher dose and is taken in a different way."

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2005/NEW01223.html

Lester M. Crawford is a "pro life activist."   

It says "one of" because there are TWO ingredients in birth control.   Estrogen and Progestin... the two ingredients we've been talking about for like 10 posts now.

Plan B contains ONE ingedient. Progestin...which is also "one of the ingredients used in ordinary prescription birth control pills."

[Dos Equis]

It says "one of" because there are TWO ingredients in birth control.   Estrogen and Progestin... the two ingredients we've been talking about for like 10 posts now.

Plan B contains ONE ingedient. Progestin...which is also "one of the ingredients used in ordinary prescription birth control pills."

Pretty convoluted argument.  I expressed concern about the unanswered questions regarding long-term risks/effects associated with repeated use of the morning after pill by women, particularly young women and girls.  Based on what I've read about this pill so far, there have been no studies on the long-term effects of repeated use of this pill.  You cite a 1969 study that shows harmful effects of elevated levels of estrogen and claim that because they don't mention progestin this is proof of a study showing that elevated levels of progestin was deemed safe?  I don't buy it.  This is nothing more than your opinion.  It sounds like you've reach a conclusion and are trying to find whatever information you can to support that conclusion.     

I tell you what, I still plan to spend some time looking into this, but if you provide me with a link that shows studies of the possible health implications of repeated use of the morning after pill (the one that hit the market a few years ago) and the results of those studies, I'll read it.   

[Al Doggity]

Based on what I've read about this pill so far, there have been no studies on the long-term effects

You've already admitted to not doing very much reading up on it at all. I've provided  you with several links that could have enlightened you, but for some unexplained reason, you keep ignoring them.

You cite a 1969 study that shows harmful effects of elevated levels of estrogen and claim that because they don't mention progestin

The study is not from 1969. It's from 2000. And it's not a study on the risk of estrogen. It's an analysis on the history of birth control and it's health risks. It covers more than 30 years of data and addresses all of the known health risks connected to birth control.

You are the one who pointed out that the study linked early formulations of birth control with certain health risks. I pointed out that those health risks were found to be linked directly to estrogen levels.

 

It sounds like you've reach a conclusion and are trying to find whatever information you can to support that conclusion.

     

That's exactly what I've done... and I believe I've done so successfully. Every question you've brought up has been answered and you haven't posted any information that would suggest there is a real concern of risk.

I tell you what, I still plan to spend some time looking into this, but if you provide me with a link that shows studies of the possible health implications of repeated use of the morning after pill (the one that hit the market a few years ago) and the results of those studies, I'll read it.   

Done and done, but I'll do it again. Here ya go:
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00027.html

This article addresses all of your concerns. It's a study that covers more than 30 years of data on a pill that contained even higher doses of the hormone you are asking about. Not only did the women in the study take larger doses of the hormone in question multiple times, they actually took it on a daily basis.

Also, you seem to be implying that Plan B contains a different hormone from standard birth control yet again. This is odd because in the 7th post from the top, right here on this page, you yourself posted a quote from an FDA offical that verified that Plan B contains the same medicine used in standard birth control. Here's another link that's even clearer on the matter. Feel free to ignore it:

http://ec.princeton.edu/info/ecminip.html

"The FDA today approved Plan B, the first progestin-only pill ..."

"It has been one of the synthetic hormones used in daily birth control pills since 1968. It's a component in over 80 brands of pills sold internationally,"

When she says "one of", she's referring to the fact that standard birth control contains two ingredients and Plan B only contains one.. Being that Plan B only has one ingredient, it has fewer ingredients than regular birth control. Being that Plan B only contains progestin, the only ingredient in Plan B is progestin.

[Dos Equis]

I read both links.  They do not answer my question.  In fact, they create more questions than answers.  From the first link:

Fears about blood clots, heart attack, and stroke, which spurred exhaustive
research on oral contraceptives in the '60s and '70s, have largely been laid
to rest by the safer, low-dose birth control pills on the market today.

In other words, health risks have been reduced by lower, not higher doses. 

Today's oral contraceptives are considerably safer than the pill of the '60s
because they contain less estrogen and progestin. Over the years, the amount
of estrogen has been reduced to one-third or less of that in the first birth
control pills, and the progestin has been decreased to one-tenth or less.

In other words, these health risks were reduced when the levels of estrogen and progestin were reduced. 

Uncertainties remain about whether the pill causes breast or cervical cancer
in some groups of women. Despite many studies over the years, there is still
insufficient evidence to definitely rule out these possibilities.

In other words, there are unanswered questions about normal doses of estrogen and progestin, which means there are certainly unanswered questions about repeated uses of massive doses of these hormones. 

I read the second link.  It says absolutely nothing about studies showing long-term health implications of repeated use of Plan B. 

I also just read a link that indicates some morning after pills contain both hormones: 

"The active ingredients in morning-after pills are similar to those in birth control pills, except in higher doses. Some morning-after pills contain only one hormone, progestin (Plan B), and others contain two, progestin and estrogen." 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/morning-after-pill/AN00592

[24KT]

Beach, let's break this down even further.

Scenario:

Eating 2 diced tomatoes sprinkled liberally with 4 cups of salt everyday will cause you to have hpertension.

It has been established that it is NOT the tomatoes, but the excessive salt that you're putting on the tomatoes that will give you the high blood pressure.

Going from 2 diced tomatoes a day to eating 12 diced tomatoes at one meal, isn't going to cause you to have high blood pressure, because those 12 diced tomatoes are not sprinkled with any salt.

the tomatoes = progestin
the salt = estrogen


 

[Dos Equis]

Beach, let's break this down even further.

Scenario:

Eating 2 diced tomatoes sprinkled liberally with 4 cups of salt everyday will cause you to have hpertension.

It has been established that it is NOT the tomatoes, but the excessive salt that you're putting on the tomatoes that will give you the high blood pressure.

Going from 2 diced tomatoes a day to eating 12 diced tomatoes at one meal, isn't going to cause you to have high blood pressure, because those 12 diced tomatoes are not sprinkled with any salt.

the tomatoes = progestin
the salt = estrogen

[chuckle]     You lost me in the first sentence. 

1.  No one can eat 4 cups of salt a day and live. 

2.  Salt does not cause high blood pressure. 

Bad analogy.   

[Al Doggity]

"Fears about blood clots, heart attack, and stroke, which spurred exhaustive
research on oral contraceptives in the '60s and '70s, have largely been laid
to rest by the safer, low-dose birth control pills on the market today."

Since that report links those particular side effects directly to estrogen (a fact I've reposted several times), this is clearly a reference to lower estrogen levels.

Uncertainties remain about whether the pill causes breast or cervical cancer
in some groups of women. Despite many studies over the years, there is still
insufficient evidence to definitely rule out these possibilities.

In other words, there are unanswered questions about normal doses of estrogen and progestin, which means there are certainly unanswered questions about repeated uses of massive doses of these hormones.

You negelected to include the sentence that immediately followed that one:

"While there are conflicting results among studies on breast cancer and the
pill, most investigations have found that women who have taken the pill have
no increased risk of developing breast cancer."


Also, there's this:

"One of the major problems of the studies to date, says Corfman, is that all
the data reflect the effects of the higher-dose pills (those containing more
than 50 mcg of estrogen)."

So, in other words, all of the research in this report is related to pills containing higher doses, not current doses.

Incidentally, why do you think the author specifies "estrogen", almost purposely omitting any mention of progestin?

I also just read a link that indicates some morning after pills contain both hormones

http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/brands-USA.html


"Plan B is the only “morning after pill”being sold in the United States today, "


"Preven, the brand name of a combined emergency contraceptive pill that was approved for use in the United States, is no longer being sold here."

[w8tlftr]

We're talking about your daughters dopey friend who I'm sure is older than 13

From her actions it sounds like she's a box of rocks and her boyfriend doesn't sound any better

What's worse for society - having this girl drop a new cabbage on the planet every 9 months or possibly messing up her baby maker?

Does this girl go to a christian school - perhaps one that teaches abstinence but no actual sex education?

What exactly is her excuse (or her boyfriends) for being so f'ng stupid?

Seriously, what is your problem with Christians?

Did a catholic priest fuck you in the ass and not return your phone calls?

[Dos Equis]

Seriously, what is your problem with Christians?

Did a catholic priest fuck you in the ass and not return your phone calls?

 

[24KT]

[chuckle]     You lost me in the first sentence. 

Big surprise there... NOT 

1.  No one can eat 4 cups of salt a day and live.

You've never tasted my cooking.   

2.  Salt does not cause high blood pressure. 

Bad analogy.   

Maybe not, ...but watching your obtuseness in action does! 

[24KT]

Seriously, what is your problem with Christians?

ummm... I think he has a problem with the fundamentalist Christian view of appropriate sex education for todays youth, ...but I could be wrong.

Did a catholic priest fuck you in the ass and not return your phone calls?

Your pre-occupation with anal sex scares me. 

[Dos Equis]

Big surprise there... NOT 

You've never tasted my cooking.   

Maybe not, ...but watching your obtuseness in action does! 

Obtuse??  lol!  You just used a hypothetical that involved four cups of salt daily, which would kill you, said salt causes high blood pressure, and compared a drug to a vegetable.  lol!  Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the topic.  Again. 

Well . . . I take that back.  You did make me laugh.   

[Straw Man]

Seriously, what is your problem with Christians?

Did a catholic priest fuck you in the ass and not return your phone calls?

Nothing so dramatic - just grew up observing that fundamentalist Christians were, as a group, some of the least intelligent, most hypocritical people I had ever seen.  Then, of course, I observed them infect the political system in this country to the detriment of us all. 

Planned Parenthood has done a great service by helping this, poor, stupid, er... I mean Christian "educated" girl from fucking up her life.   I'd rather her go there 1000 more times than drop another unwanted baby on the planet.

[24KT]

Obtuse??  lol!  You just used a hypothetical that involved four cups of salt daily, which would kill you, said salt causes high blood pressure, and compared a drug to a vegetable.  lol!  Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the topic.  Again. 

Well . . . I take that back.  You did make me laugh.   

Glad I could help... laughter is good for the soul.