Even high profile black people butcher the English language

[dizzleman06]

I am not really familiar with "pidgin" but I can get the gist of what you are talking about.  Ebonics, from what a few education students have told me, is actually considered a separate language all itself.  To me, using this "different language" and not standard English in schools is appalling.  All it does it make the black community look stupid and set their kids up for failure in any further education.  Vick, being a former college student like many other athletes, should have at least taken an ENG 101 and 102 course and should know how to speak correctly.  In the end, the speaker looks like an idiot.  A Bostonian telling me to "pahk the cah" is different than Michael Vick telling me to "park my fly ass whip".

agreed....This ghetto culture has made it quite hard to make a good first impression.

[youandme]

if you want to condemn vick for killing dogs or failing as a football player, fine, but to do so b/c of something as superficial as his "butchery" of the language makes no sense. 

Your way wrong about that. Semantics, and vernacular language have everything to do with life as we know it. Don't know about it step inside a motivational  theory lab, and you will understand how those that "butcher" the English language such as Ebonics, and set their own accords are shown through empirical evidence to irrational motive and intrinsic foley, this is simple when looking back to Voltaire's writings as he practiced the idiographic approach in comparing races, and science is now looking at the structure of classes/race/gender and finding that while we are 99.9% alike the .01 makes up for so much difference the use of nomothetic approaches to understanding how we evolve  is useful and shows how we will also DEVOLVE, due to this idiocracy!!

Oh and ANY school in the Boston NE area is a good school, great school you are at the hub of the world.

[Al Doggity]

Your way wrong about that. Semantics, and vernacular language have everything to do with life as we know it. Don't know about it step inside a motivational  theory lab, and you will understand how those that "butcher" the English language such as Ebonics, and set their own accords are shown through empirical evidence to irrational motive and intrinsic foley, this is simple when looking back to Voltaire's writings as he practiced the idiographic approach in comparing races, and science is now looking at the structure of classes/race/gender and finding that while we are 99.9% alike the .01 makes up for so much difference the use of nomothetic approaches to understanding how we evolve  is useful and shows how we will also DEVOLVE, due to this idiocracy!!

This is one of the most tragically ironic posts I've ever read. I'm not just referring to the multiple grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, but the fact that you are literally making up words at the end. Idiocracy is the name of that George Bush parody movie.

This is a pretty informal setting and mistakes are inevitable (I make my fair share of gaffes), but in trying to sound smart you posted something that was indecipherable. Considering the point of the post was to criticize the language skills of others and to link those poor language skills to poor moral character, all I can say is  

[youandme]

This is one of the most tragically ironic posts I've ever read. I'm not just referring to the multiple grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, but the fact that you are literally making up words at the end. Idiocracy is the name of that George Bush parody movie.

This is a pretty informal setting and mistakes are inevitable (I make my fair share of gaffes), but in trying to sound smart you posted something that was indecipherable. Considering the point of the post was to criticize the language skills of others and to link those poor language skills to poor moral character, all I can say is 

what are you talking about? no it was luke wilson's movie and its a real word. are you talking about the research applications of idiographic and nomothetic words? read it slower it makes sense throw it in google or something bro

[Dos Equis]

I am not really familiar with "pidgin" but I can get the gist of what you are talking about.  Ebonics, from what a few education students have told me, is actually considered a separate language all itself.  To me, using this "different language" and not standard English in schools is appalling.  All it does it make the black community look stupid and set their kids up for failure in any further education.  Vick, being a former college student like many other athletes, should have at least taken an ENG 101 and 102 course and should know how to speak correctly.  In the end, the speaker looks like an idiot.  A Bostonian telling me to "pahk the cah" is different than Michael Vick telling me to "park my fly ass whip".

Every school should teach kids proper English.  We've actually had a debate here about whether it is appropriate to condone or even teach pidgin in the public schools.  I do a lot of volunteer work in elementary schools (going this evening in fact to read to second graders) and there are stark differences in the language among our kids here.  Pidgin is much more prevalent in more remote and poorer sections of the island. 

I also do a lot of interviews and I'll tell you speech is really important.  I would not hire anyone who cannot speak proper English, unless their language problems were related to a disability. 

That said, the whole point of this thread is silly.  Criticizing an educated person who mispronounces a word tells me someone probably has race issues. 

[Al Doggity]

what are you talking about? no it was luke wilson's movie and its a real word. are you talking about the research applications of idiographic and nomothetic words? read it slower it makes sense throw it in google or something bro

That luke wilson movie was a parody of bush's presidency.

No, I'm not talking about the words you used, I'm talking about the way you used them. That post is indicative of poor communication skills; run on sentences galore, incomplete ideas, leaving words out, basic misspelling,etc. That's not something I would harp on ordinarily, but considering the point you're attempting to make, blah blah blah.

I just googled idiocracy and looked it up on webster's website. Nada.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/idiocracy

 If it's a word, then it's a word, but I've never heard of it.

[Al Doggity]

I am not really familiar with "pidgin" but I can get the gist of what you are talking about.  Ebonics, from what a few education students have told me, is actually considered a separate language all itself.  To me, using this "different language" and not standard English in schools is appalling. 

Ebonics is not a real thing. It was conceived as a scheme by some California school board to receive extra funding for underfunded schools. They claimed that the way blacks talked was a separate language and deserved more language funding. The argument was rejected and no American schools teach, or even acknowledge, "Ebonics".

[Al-Gebra]

You're way wrong about that["You are committing a serious error by ____," would be standard english.]. Semantics, and vernacular language have everything to do with life as we know it. Don't know about it If you do not know why, step inside a motivational  theory lab, and you will understand how those that "butcher" the English language [speak to someone who works in a motivational theory lab, and he will explain to you how]such as people who create variants like Ebonics, and set their own accords standards? are shown through by empirical evidence to [have a propensity to act on] irrational motive(s) and intrinsic foley folly (I have no idea what this means), [should be a period here] this is simple when looking back to Voltaire's writings This was known as far back as the Renaissance, when Voltaire compared races based on their ideographs? as he practiced the idiographic approach in comparing races, and [Should be a period here] science is now looking at the structure of classes/race/gender and finding that while we are 99.9% alike ,the .011 makes up for so much difference the use of nomothetic approaches to understanding how we evolve  is useful and shows how we will also DEVOLVE, due to this idiocracy!! (Yeah, this makes no sense . . . I'm not even going to try . . . were you going for idiosyncrasy w your last word? )

Oh and ANY school in the Boston NE area is a good school, great school you are at the hub of the world. All schools in New England are great.  They are at the center of the world.

You weren't born in an English-speaking country, were you? If you were, I'd say you've devolved to about the stone age.

 . . . unless this is an exercise in satire . . . in which case, it went over my head.

[Al Doggity]

 . . . unless this is an exercise in satire . . . in which case, it went over my head.

 

[Camel Jockey]

This is one of the most tragically ironic posts I've ever read. I'm not just referring to the multiple grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, but the fact that you are literally making up words at the end. Idiocracy is the name of that George Bush parody movie.

This is a pretty informal setting and mistakes are inevitable (I make my fair share of gaffes), but in trying to sound smart you posted something that was indecipherable. Considering the point of the post was to criticize the language skills of others and to link those poor language skills to poor moral character, all I can say is 

There's a fine line between small grammtical errors and full on ghetto talk. If you've passed high school with some college as Vick did, then you should be able to speak in a decent manner.

I love how you dodge so many issues by either resorting to personal attacks or shifting the issue at hand. youandme's grammer is not in question here, and even if it were, it certainly would have passed for decent english by most educated people. Vick's case is different.

[Al Doggity]

There's a fine line between small grammtical errors and full on ghetto talk. If you've passed high school with some college as Vick did, then you should be able to speak in a decent manner.

I love how you dodge so many issues by either resorting to personal attacks or shifting the issue at hand. youandme's grammer is not in question here, and even if it were, it certainly would have passed for decent english by most educated people. Vick's case is different.

Those weren't small grammatical errors. They were significant errors that made the post difficult to comprehend. Even for a casual shoot-the-shit forum, that post was extraordinarily incoherent. I didn't shift the issue. Youandme attempted to equate poor communication skills with intrinsic moral failings (a ridiculous point, in and of itself), and I pointed out his poor communication skills. That's not a personal attack. 

If you can consider youandme's ramblings decent English, then Vick's use of "axe" in place of "ask" is really no big deal.

[Al-Gebra]

even if it were, it certainly would have passed for decent english by most educated people. Vick's case is different.

wtf are you talking about, bengali? i understood vick just fine. I still have no idea wtf youandme is talking about . . . and neither do you.  Something about ebonics being bad is all I got.

[Dos Equis]

You weren't born in an English-speaking country, were you? If you were, I'd say you've devolved to about the stone age.

 . . . unless this is an exercise in satire . . . in which case, it went over my head.

Doh!   

[Camel Jockey]

wtf are you talking about, bengali? i understood vick just fine. I still have no idea wtf youandme is talking about . . . and neither do you.  Something about ebonics being bad is all I got.

I will be going to the local DMV to get my driver's license updated once I hit 21. From past experiences, I know the people that work there speak in ebonics slang and not exactly in a plesant manner either (what else what you expect from a bunch of affirmative action hires?).

Do you think it's okay to speak the way certain ghetto, wannabe gangsters speak? NOW, I'm not asking whether you understand the garbage, but whether you think it's acceptable.

This issue is similar to formalities.. Some can function by being rude, but is it acceptable for any working man, whether blue or white collar, to act like a savage?

[youandme]

You weren't born in an English-speaking country, were you? If you were, I'd say you've devolved to about the stone age.

 . . . unless this is an exercise in satire . . . in which case, it went over my head.

lmao, oh man alright keyboard warrior, thanks. haha

Doh!  

Haha and you don't even have a High school diploma, lmao

[Al-Gebra]

I will be going to the local DMV to get my driver's license updated once I hit 21. From past experiences, I know the people that work there speak in ebonics slang and not exactly in a plesant manner either (what else what you expect from a bunch of affirmative action hires?).

Do you think it's okay to speak the way certain ghetto, wannabe gangsters speak? NOW, I'm not asking whether you understand the garbage, but whether you think it's acceptable.

This issue is similar to formalities.. Some can function by being rude, but is it acceptable for any working man, whether blue or white collar, to act like a savage?

the problem is not how they speak . . . you use slang/expressions on a regular basis that wouldn't have passed muster 50 years ago.  languages are constantly evolving . . .

ebonics=/=rudeness

rudeness can speak any language . . .

[Eyeball Chambers]

From past experiences, I know the people that work there speak in ebonics slang and not exactly in a plesant manner either

I've always wondered why DMV's across the United States almost always have similar bottom of the barrel staff.

[Dos Equis]

lmao, oh man alright keyboard warrior, thanks. haha
Haha and you don't even have a High school diploma, lmao

Ohhhh.  You got me little Hitler.   

[Al Doggity]

I will be going to the local DMV to get my driver's license updated once I hit 21. From past experiences, I know the people that work there speak in ebonics slang and not exactly in a plesant manner either (what else what you expect from a bunch of affirmative action hires?).

It's funny you shoud use the DMV as an example. I just had my license renewed in June at the office on 34th street in Herald Square.

As soon as you get off of the elevator, you have to stop at a desk before you can even sit down to get the forms you need to fill out. The guy behind the desk is this balding, white guy who at the time had a giant band aid on his forehead. He was one of the rudest people I've ever met. Literally, people (the majority of whom were white) were going "What the hell is wrong with him?" when he gave instructions on what to do with the form.

Now, the woman who took my photo happened to be black. She was overweight and I'm sure you would consider her ghetto. She was the cliched sassy, next-door neighbor right out of a sitcom. I could hear her interaction with the (white) girl ahead of me. The area is partitioned, so I couldn't see what she was doing, but the black lady told her to relax like 6 times. Then she goes "Honey, we're only allowed to take two pictures. If this next one doesn't come out right, I'm gonna have to use it." The white girl said something then the black lady said "Well, believe it or not we actually do want you to look good in the photos," and they both started laughing.

In regards to race, my experience at the DMV  was the complete opposite of what you claim is typical.

Do you think it's okay to speak the way certain ghetto, wannabe gangsters speak? NOW, I'm not asking whether you understand the garbage, but whether you think it's acceptable.

So, someone "talks ghetto"? Big deal. Vick doesn't say "ask" properly. The president doesn't say "nuclear" properly. He says "nucular". His background and current professional status are more elite than Vick's. Why is that more acceptable?


Is this acceptable?:

[Al Doggity]

Here's something that was coincidentally in the paper today:
http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/r_m/index.html

Coit Blacker, a Stanford professor who is one of the secretary of state's closest friends, recalls going into a shop where Rice asked to see earrings. The clerk showed her costume jewelry. Rice asked to see something nicer, prompting the clerk to whisper some sass under her breath.

Blacker remembers Rice tearing the woman to shreds.

"Let's get one thing straight," he recalls her saying. "You are behind the counter because you have to work for minimum wage. I'm on this side asking to see the good jewelry because I make considerably more."

Using the context clues, it's obvious that the clerk was something other than black. Condoleeza is not known for "playing the race card."Ignore the fact that this may have been a racist incident, just take it at face value: an example of a rude, white worker. The shop sounds like it may have been high-end, so we can safely assume the worker was not "ghetto."

I could go on and on about bad experiences I've had with white salespeople. I won't because that would be apropos of nothing.

Rudeness knows no race, creed or color, but perception does all too often.

[Hedgehog]

http://www.panikon.com/phurba/morph.html

[24KT]

Here's something that was coincidentally in the paper today:
http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/r_m/index.html



Using the context clues, it's obvious that the clerk was something other than black. Condoleeza is not known for "playing the race card."Ignore the fact that this may have been a racist incident, just take it at face value: an example of a rude, white worker. The shop sounds like it may have been high-end, so we can safely assume the worker was not "ghetto."

I could go on and on about bad experiences I've had with white salespeople. I won't because that would be apropos of nothing.

Rudeness knows no race, creed or color, but perception does all too often.

Not a fan of Rice by any stretch of the imagination, ...but I have heard about situations where she has ripped a strip or two off people and verbally raked them over hot coals for various transgressions committed against her, ...and I have to admit she was very effective and very appropriate to pwn them the way she did. I also heard that when she was at Stanford, she had one professor who made the mistake of trying to humiliate her. She stood her ground and pwned him so bad, I wouldn't be surprised if his little wee wee curled up so far into him it took 4 months and a crochet hook to come back out.       

[Camel Jockey]

Al-Doggity, I guess you do have a point. People working for the DMV, whether black or white, are rude. But that's sort of missing the point, which was rudeness and ebonics. Now I'll tell you from personal experience that I've met many ebonic speaking black folks who were kind, but the majority are very rude, confrontational for no good reason.

Rudeness spans to all backgrounds. Hell, my own people rank right up there, but when one group(you know who I'm refering to) stands out so much, then it should be considered a valid issues. Most American blacks are not immigrants, nor are they denied public education. Yet they continue to speak in a manner that is not only purposely rude, but also confrontational. Even worse is that they expect decent speakers to conform, being completely oblivious to the fact that its their own folly.

I type all this stuff because it's what happens in NYC.. How come I don't have beef with other groups? Why? I'm by no means racist. It's just that I'm sick and tired, and even more so because it's a taboo to say this stuff in real life, whether it be school or at the work place.

[Al Doggity]

Al-Doggity, I guess you do have a point. People working for the DMV, whether black or white, are rude. But that's sort of missing the point, which was rudeness and ebonics.

No, I'm not missing the point. I addressed the point. You see what you want to see, especially if you're going to look at the world through color-coded glasses.

I don't live in a black majority neighborhood right now, but I did live in Harlem when I was in college and  a few years afterwards. I'm not claiming there weren't any rude people there. Yes, it was definitely rowdier than the UES, but I loved my old neighborhood. There were some trashy people there, but there were some great people there, too. I can honestly and 100% truthfully say I don't recall having one argument with someone I interacted with in passing during the 4 and a half years I lived in Harlem.


 I'm not saying there are no assholes there. I won't even argue with you if you claim there's a slightly higher rate of assholery there than in some other parts of the city. However, it was just a neighborhood. The people were overwhelmingly cool and it was easy enough to get about your day without incident. My building had a lot of white people in it and we all got along pretty well. I still have friends up there and the whites haven't fled yet.

 When someone tells me that the majority of interactions they have with blacks are negative, I have to believe that it has less to do with black people and more to do with that person's attitude towards black people.

I type all this stuff because it's what happens in NYC.. How come I don't have beef with other groups? Why? I'm by no means racist.

That's as ridiculous as asking me why I don't have beef with ANY ethnic groups at all. I can't see into your heart or mind. Just because you've developed certain  ideas about certain groups doesn't qualify those ideas as unassailable tenets.

In several of your posts you've made generalization about various groups- some were positive generalizations- but still that shows your willingness to make generalizations.

Also, I'm not convinced you understand what racism is. When you establish and embrace negative opinions about a racial group based on your interactions with a few members of that group, you are a racist.  If you repeatedly spew those views in a public forum, then you are an AVOWED racist.  The fact that you feel your negative beliefs are justified doesn't change that. Hitler and George Wallace felt they were justified, too. (I'm not saying you are as evil as either of those men.)

[Dos Equis]

No, I'm not missing the point. I addressed the point. You see what you want to see, especially if you're going to look at the world through color-coded glasses.

I don't live in a black majority neighborhood right now, but I did live in Harlem when I was in college and  a few years afterwards. I'm not claiming there weren't any rude people there. Yes, it was definitely rowdier than the UES, but I loved my old neighborhood. There were some trashy people there, but there were some great people there, too. I can honestly and 100% truthfully say I don't recall having one argument with someone I interacted with in passing during the 4 and a half years I lived in Harlem.


 I'm not saying there are no assholes there. I won't even argue with you if you claim there's a slightly higher rate of assholery there than in some other parts of the city. However, it was just a neighborhood. The people were overwhelmingly cool and it was easy enough to get about your day without incident. My building had a lot of white people in it and we all got along pretty well. I still have friends up there and the whites haven't fled yet.

 When someone tells me that the majority of interactions they have with blacks are negative, I have to believe that it has less to do with black people and more to do with that person's attitude towards black people.

That's as ridiculous as asking me why I don't have beef with ANY ethnic groups at all. I can't see into your heart or mind. Just because you've developed certain  ideas about certain groups doesn't qualify those ideas as unassailable tenets.

In several of your posts you've made generalization about various groups- some were positive generalizations- but still that shows your willingness to make generalizations.

Also, I'm not convinced you understand what racism is. When you establish and embrace negative opinions about a racial group based on your interactions with a few members of that group, you are a racist.  If you repeatedly spew those views in a public forum, then you are an AVOWED racist.  The fact that you feel your negative beliefs are justified doesn't change that. Hitler and George Wallace felt they were justified, too. (I'm not saying you are as evil as either of those men.)

Well said Al. 

BTW, my closest friend is a black man who grew up in Harlem.  Nicest guy I know (next to me).