Author Topic: Tom Brady and randy Moss!!! (Read 20146 times)

body88 · « **Reply #125 on:** October 20, 2007, 12:55:52 PM »

Quote from: ATHEIST on October 20, 2007, 12:53:47 PM

i said nothing about CBS and their legitimacy, i do not think CBS created this poll to "screw him" my original argument was to question the legitimacy of the poll being that they "polled" him as the 4th most overrated player in the league.

you actually think Ray isnt even in the top ten in his position? thats interesting. really it is.

I think that? The NFl stats say that. Next time at least look before you call a guy who has not been a top ten lb for the least three years a top three player.

2007
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=TACKLES&conference=null&season=2007&seasonType=REG

2006

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=TACKLES&season=2006&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Find

2005
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=TACKLES&season=2005&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Find

UPINTHEMGUTS · « **Reply #126 on:** October 20, 2007, 12:57:28 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 20, 2007, 12:47:50 PM

Apparently you cannot see the forest through the trees my friend. You said Ray Lewis was a top three LB in the league. Bro Lewis is not even in the top 10. I did answer your question, just not the way you wanted it which would fit your agenda and cherry picking of my posts. Btw you avoided half my rebuttal post's.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=TACKLES&conference=null&season=2007&seasonType=REG

You two guys DO know that there is more than one position at LB, correct?

Body88, when you say Lewis isn't in the top ten are you referring to top 10 middle linebackers? Or are you giving an overall LB ranking that encompasses Middle LB, Weakside LB, and Strongside LB collectively??

body88 · « **Reply #127 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:00:16 PM »

Quote from: UPINTHEMGUTS on October 20, 2007, 12:57:28 PM

You two guys DO know that there is more than one position at LB, correct?

Body88, when you say Lewis isn't in the top ten are you referring to top 10 middle linebackers? Or are you giving an overall LB ranking that encompasses Middle LB, Weakside LB, and Strongside LB collectively??

Of course I know that. Then we could delve into the issue of different schemes and personnel inflating certain lb's numbers making this whole thing moot. I love how you guys are acting like I am the one saying I hate Ray Lewis.

I don't think 10 percent of NFL players saying Lewis is a tad overrated at this stage in his career is shocking. He has been hampered b injury and is getting older. Does not change the fact he is a HOF player. Imo I think they where referring to current day play.

ATHEIST · « **Reply #128 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:01:29 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 20, 2007, 12:55:52 PM

I think that? The NFl stats say that. Next time at least look before you call a guy who has not been a top ten lb for the least three years a top three player.

2007
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=TACKLES&conference=null&season=2007&seasonType=REG

2006

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=TACKLES&season=2006&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Find

2005
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=TACKLES&season=2005&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Find

so you would take D'Qwell Jackson over Ray Lewis because he is higher on the list?

body88 · « **Reply #129 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:01:54 PM »

Quote from: ATHEIST on October 20, 2007, 01:01:29 PM

so you would take D'Qwell Jackson over Ray Lewis because he is higher on the list?

Depends on the scheme and personnel.

ATHEIST · « **Reply #130 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:02:59 PM »

Quote from: UPINTHEMGUTS on October 20, 2007, 12:57:28 PM

You two guys DO know that there is more than one position at LB, correct?

Body88, when you say Lewis isn't in the top ten are you referring to top 10 middle linebackers? Or are you giving an overall LB ranking that encompasses Middle LB, Weakside LB, and Strongside LB collectively??

yeah i do know that, i would still take Ray top three overall.

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #131 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:04:12 PM »

I'm certainly no expert but I think a lot of people think Lewis has been living off of the reputation he earned earlier in his career. He's clearly still a very good football player but at least in some people's opinion he's not nearly as good as he used to be. Brett Favre is the same way.

ATHEIST · « **Reply #132 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:07:44 PM »

Quote from: ieffinhatecardio on October 20, 2007, 01:04:12 PM

I'm certainly no expert but I think a lot of people think Lewis has been living off of the reputation he earned earlier in his career. He's clearly still a very good football player but at least in some people's opinion he's not nearly as good as he used to be. Brett Favre is the same way.

i am no Ray Lewis fan per say but i do think he is still one of the best, as far as Brett he is not the same. both however require support around them, currently Brett does have that support and Ray does not. for ex. Brett throws 2 picks last week and they still win, he is on a decent team this year.

ATHEIST · « **Reply #133 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:11:43 PM »

over under on Randy Moss getting more than 21 tds?

body88 · « **Reply #134 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:12:31 PM »

Quote from: ATHEIST on October 20, 2007, 01:07:44 PM

i am no Ray Lewis fan per say but i do think he is still one of the best, as far as Brett he is not the same. both however require support around them, currently Brett does have that support and Ray does not. for ex. Brett throws 2 picks last week and they still win, he is on a decent team this year.

We could actually argue about this all day and get nowhere. Lb's have different responsibilities in different schemes. Sort of like a guy like Seymour. He numbers are not as gaudy as they could be do to the system he plays in.

body88 · « **Reply #135 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:14:31 PM »

Quote from: ATHEIST on October 20, 2007, 01:11:43 PM

over under on Randy Moss getting more than 21 tds?

Who knows. Teams are starting to scheme against him now.

ATHEIST · « **Reply #136 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:15:42 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 20, 2007, 01:12:31 PM

We could actually argue about this all day and get nowhere. Lb's have different responsibilities in different schemes. Sort of like a guy like Seymour. He numbers are not as gaudy as they could be do to the system he plays in.

i guess. i just hate favre.

UPINTHEMGUTS · « **Reply #137 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:16:05 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 20, 2007, 01:00:16 PM

Of course I know that. Then we could delve into the issue of different schemes and personnel inflating certain lb's numbers making this whole thing moot. I love how you guys are acting like I am the one saying I hate Ray Lewis.

I didn't accuse you of that. I just take exception of your opinion with Lewis not being in your top ten. Aggressive defensive schemes and personnel can favorably affect a players' individual stats. But the game film doesn't lie when it comes to Lewis' play on the field. I agree his play has slipped a little and I'll tell you the main reason: loss of shoulder strength over the years due to excess wear and tear over the years. Lewis used to be stronger where he could 'shock' blockers off of him with thrusts. Now after a shoulder surgery, playing 10 seasons, signs of diminishing skill are becoming more apparent.

But I'd take him first at MLB over any other player in the NFL at his position.

ps--Body88, hit the spellcheck before you post, dude. You're a MOD for Christs sakes.

ATHEIST · « **Reply #138 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:19:18 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 20, 2007, 01:14:31 PM

Who knows. Teams are starting to scheme against him now.

overunder at 21 i say over, even if they scheme for him Wes will eat them up. i think if they lost Welker that would be more of a detriment than losing Moss. Randy will have around 24 tds i think.

ATHEIST · « **Reply #139 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:20:58 PM »

Quote from: UPINTHEMGUTS on October 20, 2007, 01:16:05 PM

But I'd take him first at MLB over any other player in the NFL at his position.

ps--Body88, hit the spellcheck before you post, dude. You're a MOD for Christs sakes.

at MLB i would have him first or second easily.

body88 · « **Reply #140 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:21:32 PM »

Quote from: UPINTHEMGUTS on October 20, 2007, 01:16:05 PM

I didn't accuse you of that. I just take exception on your opinion of Lewis not being in your top ten. Aggressive defensive schemes and personnel can favorably affect a players' individual stats. But the game film doesn't lie when it comes to Lewis' play on the field. I agree his play has slipped a little and I'll tell you the main reason: lack of shoulder strength over the years due to excess wear and tear over the years. Lewis used to be stronger where he could 'shock' blockers off of him with thrusts. Now after a shoulder surgery, playing 10 seasons, signs of dimishing skill are becoming more apparent.

But I'd take him first at MLB over any other player in the NFL at his position.

Good post. Seeing as though I do not watch Lewis week in and week out I might have relied heavily on the stats. You bring up a great point actually. If you look at a guy like Seymour's stats they might not be as gaudy as they could be but he is invaluable to his system.

Saying Lewis would not be in my top ten was a stretch. Although this year I don't know if he would be in my top ten. That is not due to his play in past years, I have said several times Lewis is a HOF player and one of the best ever.

I am typing this with my nephew crawling all over the place. Forgive me if I did not choose to check my posts over good enough today. Btw you spelled diminishing wrong

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #141 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:26:11 PM »

Quote from: ATHEIST on October 20, 2007, 01:07:44 PM

i am no Ray Lewis fan per say but i do think he is still one of the best, as far as Brett he is not the same. both however require support around them, currently Brett does have that support and Ray does not. for ex. Brett throws 2 picks last week and they still win, he is on a decent team this year.

I don't think he's one of the best anymore, I think he's a great leader and I think he contributes a lot but I don't see him as one of the best. Favre isn't superman anymore but he tried to be for the last few years and made way too many stupid decisions. The game before this last one he reverted back to the bad decision making.

body is right, this debate could go on for hours with no real headway being made. Impact on a game without factoring in statistics is a judgement call and we all have our own judgements.

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #142 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:29:34 PM »

Quote from: ATHEIST on October 20, 2007, 01:11:43 PM

over under on Randy Moss getting more than 21 tds?

I don't see him getting 21, body said it first and he's right. Teams are focusing in on Moss now. The problem for them is that leaves Welker or Watson or Stallworth open. There are so many weapons that defenses are screwed no matter who they focus on.

I'd guess he ends up with 12-16. I know the gap is pretty large between 12 and 16 but I'd guess somewhere between those two numbers.

ATHEIST · « **Reply #143 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:49:05 PM »

Quote from: ieffinhatecardio on October 20, 2007, 01:29:34 PM

I don't see him getting 21, body said it first and he's right. Teams are focusing in on Moss now. The problem for them is that leaves Welker or Watson or Stallworth open. There are so many weapons that defenses are screwed no matter who they focus on.

I'd guess he ends up with 12-16. I know the gap is pretty large between 12 and 16 but I'd guess somewhere between those two numbers.

he will get more than 16.

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #144 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:52:19 PM »

I hope you're right, I'd love to see him get 21.

The fact that the Pats love spreading the ball around and that other teams are keying in on him now makes me doubt it though.

body88 · « **Reply #145 on:** October 20, 2007, 04:59:37 PM »

Quote from: ieffinhatecardio on October 20, 2007, 01:52:19 PM

I hope you're right, I'd love to see him get 21.

The fact that the Pats love spreading the ball around and that other teams are keying in on him now makes me doubt it though.

I agree. Moss will go over 1000 yards. I dunno about 21 td's. Opposing coaches will work hard to scheme him. Like you said guys like Watson, Stallworth and Welker will thrive from the defensive attention Randy receives.

body88 · « **Reply #146 on:** October 21, 2007, 10:57:21 AM »

Did anyone just see that TD catch by Moss? HOLY SHIT. Brady already has 3 tds in the first quarter.

body88 · « **Reply #147 on:** October 21, 2007, 11:08:47 AM »

Randy Moss just made another one of the best catches I have ever seen for td. Double covered again. Holy shit. Brady is 11 for 11 over 220 yards with 4 tds after 1 quarter!

UPINTHEMGUTS · « **Reply #148 on:** October 21, 2007, 11:09:55 AM »

Brady is from another planet. FOUR touchdowns in the first half so far. Crazy.

body88 · « **Reply #149 on:** October 21, 2007, 11:11:23 AM »

Quote from: UPINTHEMGUTS on October 21, 2007, 11:09:55 AM

Brady is from another planet. FOUR touchdowns in the first half so far. Crazy.

We all know I am a huge pats fan, but this is unreal. The dolphins are a bad team, but these are still pro football players.