My coverage of Bill Carpenter's UPA Bench Bash for Cash 2007

[warchild]

Watch Ryan Kennelly's video and you will see what happens.  405 lbs for 20 reps with ease and he is a lot bigger and stronger now. 

Bench shirts increase the lift, yes, but they don't make the lifter weak.

Kennelly's a strong bastard, no doubt....however, his 1038 would be severely reduced to around 725-750 without a shirt. You do the math, that's pretty much a difference of 300 lbs Chris. It would be foolish to think that shirts don't drastically improve the lift

[chris_mason]

I know, I know, I know the weight would crush me like a little school girl

yes,yes, yes...I don't know jack shit about power lifting

but I am not impressed..that video of Levrone pressing 5 plates for reps is more impressive to me

Perhaps Dennis Cieri benching a raw 525 lbs at 198 lbs is more to your liking?  Just an FYI, he lifts both raw and equipped.

http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?viewkey=df913c81da1c5c18ee84

Kind of blows the all-shirt argument out of the water, no?

[chris_mason]

Kennelly's a strong bastard, no doubt....however, his 1038 would be severely reduced to around 725-750 without a shirt. You do the math, that's pretty much a difference of 300 lbs Chris. It would be foolish to think that shirts don't drastically improve the lift

Take a moment and read what I wrote.  Did I ANYWHERE is this thread say that a bench shirt doesn't aid the lift?

My point is that shirts can help tremendously, but the best shirted benchers are still incredibly strong raw.

[Nordic Beast]

Perhaps Dennis Cieri benching a raw 525 lbs at 198 lbs is more to your liking?  Just an FYI, he lifts both raw and equipped.

http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?viewkey=df913c81da1c5c18ee84

Kind of blows the all-shirt argument out of the water, no?

I never argued that its all-shirt

I just think its stupid and silly to use them

it should be the person and the weight--nothing more-----------using "tools" to improve your #''s is ridiculous to me

[chris_mason]

you skate around my question chris


you havent even addressed it--

what do you think is more impressive a raw bench or one using a "shirt"??

and if you think raw is--which most people do--then why do argue for bench "shirts" in competition??

Ok, no more skating, lol???

Anyway, I think they are both impressive forms of lifting at their best.  I think 1000+ lbs, with a shirt, is RIDICULOUS!!!  I think anything over 500 lbs raw is really good, and anything over 600 lbs is STUPID.  700+ is otherworldly.

I have no problem with geared competition because everyone has the ability to use the gear by definition.  The gear takes a lot of skill to use properly.  It makes things interesting.  I think raw lifting is cool too.  I like both.

[chris_mason]

My guess is that Rob Luyando, the guy with 904 lbs on the bar, could get around 500-540lbs.

Raw, with proper form.

I think your guess is low if he trained for it.

[Nordic Beast]

Ok, no more skating, lol???

Anyway, I think they are both impressive forms of lifting at their best.  I think 1000+ lbs, with a shirt, is RIDICULOUS!!!  I think anything over 500 lbs raw is really good, and anything over 600 lbs is STUPID.  700+ is otherworldly.

I have no problem with geared competition because everyone has the ability to use the gear by definition.  The gear takes a lot of skill to use properly.  It makes things interesting.  I think raw lifting is cool too.  I like both.

cool thanks for answering bro

BTW you have some impressive lifting vids yourself

[chris_mason]

I never argued that its all-shirt

I just think its stupid and silly to use them

it should be the person and the weight--nothing more-----------using "tools" to improve your #''s is ridiculous to me

That's cool.  You are entitled to your opinion.  I don't agree so long as the playing field is level.  I think a raw vs. shirted bencher would be silly.

[warchild]

Take a moment and read what I wrote.  Did I ANYWHERE is this thread say that a bench shirt doesn't aid the lift?

My point is that shirts can help tremendously, but the best shirted benchers are still incredibly strong raw.

No, you didn't make that point.....however, that's not exactly true when it comes to raw pressing. Hell, I watched Gene Rychlak struggle with 650 raw. I've been around Josh Bryant and watched him train many times, he mostly trains without gear. I've seen him get 405 for 15 with no problem but his best raw bench was 615, at least what I witnessed. To me, raw lifting is much more impressive

[chris_mason]

No, you didn't make that point.....however, that's not exactly true when it comes to raw pressing. Hell, I watched Gene Rychlak struggle with 650 raw. I've been around Josh Bryant and watched him train many times, he mostly trains without gear. I've seen him get 405 for 15 with no problem but his best raw bench was 615, at least what I witnessed. To me, raw lifting is much more impressive

 

Anyway, let's just say for sake of argument Gene did a raw 650 lbs.  You don't think that is ridiculously good?  You don't think that puts him in the top few percent of all benchers?  It does.  Josh Bryant is a VERY strong guy as well.  I am not sure what your point is?

[warchild]

My point is simply this, raw is more impressive.....and yes, 650 raw is impressive   

[Hedgehog]

Anyway, let's just say for sake of argument Gene did a raw 650 lbs.  You don't think that is ridiculously good?  You don't think that puts him in the top few percent of all benchers?  It does.  Josh Bryant is a VERY strong guy as well.  I am not sure what your point is?

This in itself is an argument to get rid of the shirts.

The ridiculous shirts and the lax judging, (Luyando's lift was an absolute disaster) makes raw benchpressing numbers seem dull.

Mason, why do you think we get this very same discussion whenever you post a clip of a lifter from one of the circus federations?

And why doesn't it happen when clips of Arthur Jones or Dennis Cieri raw benchpresses, or Scott Weech raw squats?

Why would getbiggers be any less qualified to understand powerlifting than the general public?

[wisconsinBB]

I wonder if all the powerlifters who use shirts think it would be ok for high jumpers to use spring loaded shoes?

[Tre]

Mason - were you just a sponsor or were you the event organizer?

You're being really defensive here.

[chris_mason]

This in itself is an argument to get rid of the shirts.

The ridiculous shirts and the lax judging, (Luyando's lift was an absolute disaster) makes raw benchpressing numbers seem dull.

Mason, why do you think we get this very same discussion whenever you post a clip of a lifter from one of the circus federations?

And why doesn't it happen when clips of Arthur Jones or Dennis Cieri raw benchpresses, or Scott Weech raw squats?

Why would getbiggers be any less qualified to understand powerlifting than the general public?

I would understand your argument if they were trying to appeal to the general public.

Getbig is hardly the general public?  The general public does not understand why anyone would want to look like a high level competitive bodybuilder.  They don't understand why someone would want to starve themselves for months, nearly kill themselves with diuretics and everything else, cover themselves with, oil and then get on a stage while wearing a bikini which barely covers they genetalia.

If anything, people on Getbig should understand geared powerlifting and respect it for what it is just as they should understand and respect raw powerlifting.

Think of it this way, geared powerlifting is a specific form of competition.

[chris_mason]

Mason - were you just a sponsor or were you the event organizer?

You're being really defensive here.

Sponsor.

I am being really defensive? 

I am discussing a point in a respectful manner.

Anyway, I respect bodybuilding and powerlifting and love both.  Any form of strength sports is cool with me, but I have a particular love for powerlifting.