Author Topic: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board  (Read 17914 times)

MAXX

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2007, 04:16:18 PM »
High protien diets have been associated with obesity and many other health risks.
that association is made with the genaral public. not bodybuilders.

its possible to maintain a high protein intake without getting obese. just gotta keep moderation on the carbs and fat.


Shraded

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2007, 04:16:47 PM »
High protien diets have been associated with obesity and many other health risks.

Damn.... i'm screwed....  ;D

dr.chimps

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2007, 04:18:01 PM »
High protien diets have been associated with obesity and many other health risks.
C'mon, LB. You know that is not true. Carbs are what is killing Americans (and Canadians!). 

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2007, 04:24:00 PM »
Now say your getting enough, perhaps too much protein...  in addition taking aminos- would they contribute to these "risks" as well?  If indeed there legit?

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2007, 04:36:51 PM »
SO CONCLUSION, Training 2 times a day = more growth
and also eating 2g of protein per pounds of bodyweight per day = more growth too


of course, the guy who stay the same size every year will say that is ain't true  8)



im not sure about a natural training twice a day. 

but training a body part twice a week IS beneficial...even for a natural, but only if you spread it out properly

its pretty simple...you stimulate the muscles twice a week instead of one, and given enough food and rest

thats equals more growth

not rocket science

The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2007, 04:45:01 PM »
C'mon, LB. You know that is not true. Carbs are what is killing Americans (and Canadians!). 
No carbs are not the problem. Over eating is the problem. Carbs are no the culprit and the reason i say protien is associated with obesity is because it comes from animal sources which has saturated fats.

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2007, 04:47:47 PM »
Well take tri's for example- say you hit arms Sunday and then Chest and Shoulders on two other seperate days.  Would that count seeing as your indirectly working them? Because if you throw in Isolated tri's again thats hitting them 4 time in seven days technically  ???  

I swear, I grew the best when I trained 4 days on 3 days off...  But i don't have the energy to do that anymore... Plus, i think i tend to over train  :-\

dr.chimps

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2007, 04:52:39 PM »
No carbs are not the problem. Over eating is the problem. Carbs are no the culprit and the reason i say protien is associated with obesity is because it comes from animal sources which has saturated fats.
OK Fair enough. Good point. But when people overeat, it is usually with excess carbs. Hard to overeat with steaks, but easy to with the 2L sodas, etc.   

The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2007, 04:58:37 PM »
OK Fair enough. Good point. But when people overeat, it is usually with excess carbs. Hard to overeat with steaks, but easy to with the 2L sodas, etc.   
Wrong. A study was done on fat storage and overeating and it was found that overeating on carbs didn't not result in fat gain as it did with protien in fat. You guys who bodybuild really should look into taking a nutrition class. There is so much bull floating around it is ridiculous.

affy

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2007, 04:59:34 PM »
Well take tri's for example- say you hit arms Sunday and then Chest and Shoulders on two other seperate days.  Would that count seeing as your indirectly working them? Because if you throw in Isolated tri's again thats hitting them 4 time in seven days technically  ??? 

I swear, I grew the best when I trained 4 days on 3 days off...  But i don't have the energy to do that anymore... Plus, i think i tend to over train  :-\

well what i used to do was train chest and tris together on mondays...and then chest and shoulders again on friday (chest was lagging), and my chest blew up.  Tris weren't effected because i worked them once a week...and they completely fresh for Fridays chest workout.


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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2007, 05:02:27 PM »
Same here I did chest and bi's, back-tri's, legs, then shoulders and chest...  My chest grew a lot...  but i couldn't image hitting tri's full bore again in that week...  Well, i could as far as wanting to but I would think it'd be too much.

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2007, 05:04:57 PM »
No carbs are not the problem. Over eating is the problem. Carbs are no the culprit and the reason i say protien is associated with obesity is because it comes from animal sources which has saturated fats.
I disagree. Dr's will put a diabetic on a low carb diet in order to stabilize blood sugar levels. Carbs are not needed at all. Every time you eat carbs there is a blood sugar reaction and 9 x out of 10 the carbs are stored as bodyfat (non bber). Carbs + sugar are the main reasons for obesity, there is an addiction associated with them.  You wont get fat eating meat, and if you cut carbs alltogether your body will use the fat as energy (atkins/keto). Carbs are the enemy for an overweight person, not beef, chicken etc.  You neglected to say how you can grow without protein. Protein= muscle bottom line, has been that way since the day of early man (who survived off of protein, plants, and marrow/fat, not carbs). Protein powders and leaner meats make it so you can hit insane amounts without excessive calories, but calories are whats needed for growth. calories from tons of protein.
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The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2007, 05:08:04 PM »
I disagree. Dr's will put a diabetic on a low carb diet in order to stabilize blood sugar levels. Carbs are not needed at all. Every time you eat carbs there is a blood sugar reaction and 9 x out of 10 the carbs are stored as bodyfat (non bber). Carbs + sugar are the main reasons for obesity, there is an addiction associated with them.  You wont get fat eating meat, and if you cut carbs alltogether your body will use the fat as energy (atkins/keto). Carbs are the enemy for an overweight person, not beef, chicken etc.  You neglected to say how you can grow without protein. Protein= muscle bottom line, has been that way since the day of early man (who survived off of protein, plants, and marrow/fat, not carbs). Protein powders and leaner meats make it so you can hit insane amounts without excessive calories, but calories are whats needed for growth. calories from tons of protein.
Carbs are needed. The brain runs on glucose and ONLY glucose. Nothing else. You cannot get glucose from fat. With out carbohydrates you would die.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2007, 05:10:37 PM »
Every time you eat carbs there is a blood sugar reaction and 9 x out of 10 the carbs are stored as bodyfat (non bber).
Carbs do not turn to fat except under extreme circumstances.

dr.chimps

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #64 on: September 14, 2007, 05:10:42 PM »
Wrong. A study was done on fat storage and overeating and it was found that overeating on carbs didn't not result in fat gain as it did with protien in fat. You guys who bodybuild really should look into taking a nutrition class. There is so much bull floating around it is ridiculous.
Ok. Then here is where I disagree with you, LB. 'A study' is a bit vague, but I would bet my last dollar (not my house deed like TA) that America's problem with obesity is due to both a lack of exercise (sorry for the caveat) and too many carbs( protein not protien) for the simple reason that carbs are so more readily produced and less expensive than protein. The creation of protein is very labour/capital costly; carbs are not.  :D 

Sorry: Supply has no bearing on results.  :-\

Van_Bilderass

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2007, 05:11:39 PM »
Carbs are needed. The brain runs on glucose and ONLY glucose. Nothing else. You cannot get glucose from fat. With out carbohydrates you would die.
One word: gluconeogenesis. So you are both right and wrong. Carbs from food is not needed.

SWOLETRAIN

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2007, 05:14:10 PM »
With out carbohydrates you would die.
haha no no no ..... it would go into ketosis and run off of fat as its main source of fuel. Given enough fat it would run more efficiently, since its new fuel (fat) is an unlimited source. Without carbs you would no longer get cravings ( bs is stable) and you would loose fat
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Dballn247

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2007, 05:14:50 PM »
Wrong. A study was done on fat storage and overeating and it was found that overeating on carbs didn't not result in fat gain as it did with protien in fat. You guys who bodybuild really should look into taking a nutrition class. There is so much bull floating around it is ridiculous.

Oh brother, wtf is a nutrition class going to tell anyone?  What works for 98% of the general public who doesn't even work out?  That steroids are a cholesterol and that insulin is only for Diabetics?  Come on get your head out of the clouds. The US RDA is a joke.  You have to know your own body and decide what works best for you.  Plus the amount of protein that you consume while you are anabolic is obviously going to be higher since your body will metabolize it vs storing it, or passing it as waste.   

\

The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2007, 05:15:55 PM »
One word: gluconeogenesis. So you are both right and wrong. Carbs from food is not needed.
The brain has to have carbs. You get carbs from food. You cannot live off of glucogenesis for ever. Only short periods of time.

The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2007, 05:16:51 PM »
haha no no no ..... it would go into ketosis and run off of fat as its main source of fuel. Given enough fat it would run more efficiently, since its new fuel (fat) is an unlimited source. Without carbs you would no longer get cravings ( bs is stable) and you would loose fat
Did you not read what i just said? The brain only uses some ketones. It cannot run soley off of ketones. The brain HAS to have carbs.

dr.chimps

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2007, 05:17:04 PM »
haha no no no ..... it would go into ketosis and run off of fat as its main source of fuel. Given enough fat it would run more efficiently, since its new fuel (fat) is an unlimited source. Without carbs you would no longer get cravings ( bs is stable) and you would loose weight.
True. Carbs are the one macro you can live without (Inuits, S. Pac. Islanders, etc) , but your lifestyle will be will be compromised.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2007, 05:17:34 PM »
The brain has to have carbs. You get carbs from food. You cannot live off of glucogenesis for ever. Only short periods of time.
Why would gluconeogenesis turn off? You're wrong here. Dietary carbohydrate is not essential for survival.

SWOLETRAIN

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2007, 05:18:27 PM »
van,
   Would carbs from plant/ veggies suffice the needs for glucogenesis?
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The_Leafy_Bug

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2007, 05:18:36 PM »
Oh brother, wtf is a nutrition class going to tell anyone?  What works for 98% of the general public who doesn't even work out?  That steroids are a cholesterol and that insulin is only for Diabetics?  Come on get your head out of the clouds. The US RDA is a joke.  You have to know your own body and decide what works best for you.  Plus the amount of protein that you consume while you are anabolic is obviously going to be higher since your body will metabolize it vs storing it, or passing it as waste.   


Yeah you're right. Bodybuilders are different. We aren't human.

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Re: GREAT thread about protein requirements on Milos Board
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2007, 05:21:11 PM »
Carbs are needed. The brain runs on glucose and ONLY glucose. Nothing else. You cannot get glucose from fat. With out carbohydrates you would die.


Absolutley not true.


You do not need to consume any carbs at all.  The liver will produce the minimal amount of glucose the body requires by converting it from protein (glucogenesis).  Epileptic children are often put on ketogenic (no carb) diets and do great on it for years.  Many populations throughout history have lived on a no carb diet (Eskimos and the Massai are two recent examples) and thrived.  Then look at the diets of pre-historic man:  he hunted (meat and fat) and gathered green plants.  If he was lucky he ran across tree nuts and very occasionally tart fruit.  He ate no grain and few carbohydrates.

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