Atlantic City Pro Women's updates / results

[kszep]

 I put over 75k dollars in the IFBB's pocket putting on the charlotte pro, you think if I wanted someone to place a little higher it couldn't be done?  How about an IFBB pro coming to me telling me that if I gave him a good deal on raw materials he could put anyone I wanted in the top 3?  How was he able to do that?  Simple, he had dinner with two judges that night, I saw it.  I thought he was bs'ing, at the time I was single but had a friend in the show.  What do you know, she got in the top 3.  I saw a sheet of paper with numbers written on it as to who needed to be placed near the top.  He didn't ask me her name, he didn't care.  He just wanted her suit number.  

 There are tons of people that compete that don't know anyone, they can't play the game.  It's only fair when everyone is on the same level and everyone can play by the same rules.  I never once asked for anyone to be placed anywhere.  Things were offered to me because I was in a position to give back.  

Sorry, but I just had to bring the topic back to this...
When I was an NPC athlete, things seemed very fair (I had zero political affiliations and was/am drug free).  At Team U when I turned pro some things started to seem a bit fishy (1fast400 may know what I am referring to), but still I didn't think things could be that horrible.  My rude awakening was in NY last year when I finally learned about "management" companies, drugs, etc.  It was very disappointing.  But still, I had held on to the hope that things really weren't as f****d up as people said they were until I read the post above. I guess I had to see it in black and white.  It makes me so very frustrated and sad. 
I know what many will say:  "compete for fun", but deep down inside I don't believe one competitor who competes for fun without wanting a top spot.  Everyone likes a shot at the gold.  EVERYONE. 
So what does a IFBB pro do who isn't managed by the right company, who doesn't date show promotors, etc?  Find a different organization?  Its not that easy after working hard to achieve your pro card.  You hold on to the hope that things may change, however you feel like the biggest sucker show after show when nothing does.
It all stinks
Enough whining from me...

[HDPhysiques]

marc, give it up bro.   Lift totally pwned you with the posting of that photo.  Not even close.

[marc_thyssen]

Well Mate, its like saying your Schmoetography is quality, i'm sure many would object to that too



 

[1Fast400]

Katie, I was at the show you turned pro, I sat on the front row.  You shocked everyone.  You were just this big ball of energy that came from nowhere.  Your routine turned you pro.  There was no doubt when I watched your routine, that I knew you were going pro that night.  I had never seen you before.  That is what it takes when you don't know someone.  I remember that night, it was interesting.  Some girls messed up mandatory moves and got hurt by it. 

It wasn't long after that, I stopped keeping up with shows.  I always thought you'd do well on the pro level.  From what I recall, I thought your physique was a great medium.  Not to hard and not soft.  Sadly on the pro level, it's all about getting freaky hard.

[genex]

Just a quick shot of Nicole Ball from one of our shoots at the Atlantic City:


genex

[HDPhysiques]

Well Mate, its like saying your Schmoetography is quality, i'm sure many would object to that too



 

oooh - devastating coming from you... lol   

[Scooby]

Katie, You shocked everyone.  You were just this big ball of energy that came from nowhere.  Your routine turned you pro.  There was no doubt when I watched your routine, that I knew you were going pro that night.  I had never seen you before.  That is what it takes when you don't know someone.  I remember that night, it was interesting.  Some girls messed up mandatory moves and got hurt by it. 

From what I recall, I thought your physique was a great medium.  Not to hard and not soft.  Sadly on the pro level, it's all about getting freaky hard.

Wait... Let me get this straight...
Katie turned pro because she had the best routine?
Katie turned pro because she had talent?
Katie turned pro and didn't know the right people?
Katie wasn't dating a promoter or a judge?
Katie turned pro in NYC & at Team U?
Other girls screwed up mandatories and it hurt their scores?

And you are saying her physique is around a 10th place pro level physique?
Ummm okay!  Not really sure I see the problem.

Hey Lift... any comment?

[1Fast400]

In katie's class, when she did her routine, there was no doubt in my mind that she was going pro that night.  The judges were looking at the same group of girls they had seen the past 3 pro qualifying shows, besides her.  She came in so strong, I thought it was an easy event to score.  There are things people mess up at fitness shows, such as music.  I believe you're required to change your music 3x in the routine, yet some girls played one song throughout.  The messed up mandatory was in the 2nd class.  Katie was in short class. 

IMO, I don't think katie will bring in a physique the judges seem to reward, which is ultra hard.  I don't think that is the physique they should award, but they do.  BTW, the show we're talking about is from two years ago and I'm going off memory, if I miss a detail or two, sorry.

[FigureRX]

This just goes to show you that everyone has a different perspective.  The way I see it, they haven't been rewarding the hardest physiques in fitness or figure (with the exception of mega-stars like Tracey Greenwood) since about 2005.  Our athlete won one of the routine rounds but was told she was too hard and fell in the physique rounds.

IMO, I don't think katie will bring in a physique the judges seem to reward, which is ultra hard.  I don't think that is the physique they should award, but they do.  BTW, the show we're talking about is from two years ago and I'm going off memory, if I miss a detail or two, sorry.

[Tre]

Since we're all seeing completely different things at the same shows, is it any wonder that the judging sometimes seems a bit confused?

 

[Lift Studios]

Since we're all seeing completely different things at the same shows, is it any wonder that the judging sometimes seems a bit confused?

 

Which will always be the case as it's subjective.

Scooby - good observations. I couldn't agree more and clearly Mike has to remove his foot from his mouth on that one.

[Lift Studios]

Keep dreamin' of Dina buddy while using ur right hand,
leave the action to those better qualified

 

Marco Polo,

Yes, that would be me. While you're online arguing with Denny, I was out dining with Dina. She'd love to chat but is getting a massage right now. 

[mbell]

Isaac and Dina,

My feelings are hurt! Where was my dinner invite 

[1Fast400]

This just goes to show you that everyone has a different perspective.  The way I see it, they haven't been rewarding the hardest physiques in fitness or figure (with the exception of mega-stars like Tracey Greenwood) since about 2005.  Our athlete won one of the routine rounds but was told she was too hard and fell in the physique rounds.

Ugh, that's my point.  You assume that because you were told something, that must be the actual reason for why things happen.  You guys think all the judges have equal input?  Did you ever notice that only ONE judge actually enters/tallies the scores?  That is how shows get rigged.  You can rig an entire panel, it's to hard.  That's why at shows, you'll see the little slips of paper with suit numbers on it.  This is mainly at national shows.  That is how the top judges knows who's score needs to be where. 

Issac, I don't need to remove anything.  If you don't think they are rewarding hard bodies, then I would LOVE to know what shows you've attended.  I saw a certain top level pro athlete just weeks ago at a shoot and nearly died.  She was hard as nails and she was 2 weeks past a show.  She will be doing the O.  The extreme hardness was insane. She was also awarded a top spot, no surprise. 

If you guys would read what I write, you would see what I'm saying in regards to katie.  I believe katie brings in a great physique, but on average they reward a HARDER physique than hers.  So until you can show me proof of someone softer than her, placing in front of her, then my point stands.  I think she is more the line of what fitness SHOULD be, not what they are doing. 

[FigureRX]

No that's not true.  I'm just relaying what our athlete was told, we cover every NPC national and IFBB show, so we are generally aware of what the judges are rewarding at a particular time.  *Never* have we told an athlete to adhere specifically to what judges say unless it's obvious (like a suit or a makeup problem) - every competitor has to come in at what she feels is her personal best.  As an organization we support physique excellence, which to *us* means achieving the objective of coming in with a perfect figure/fitness shape combined with fullness and hardness. 

Everybody has different objectives regarding the direction of the sport - we want to see harder, better conditioned athletes.  Figure (and fitness) to us is about achieving that symmetrical X-shape with tiny joints and big muscle bellies, but most of the other goals are similar to bodybuilding - conditioning, hardness, thin skin on stage to show it all off, etc.  You know you are in shape if you can get the upper quad/hip tie-in conditioned and show off those veins in the lower abs, etc.  That's all I am saying, we all come at this with different outlooks.  Therefore there's no way that we'll all agree on the judging at any given time.  All we can do is try to understand it, and point out those few times when we feel it is really off - while at the same time showing tremendous respect for the accomplishments of *all* the athletes.  We like Katie a lot but if she came in softer we would place her a little lower in the physique rounds.  You are saying that you want softer competitors to be rewarded and we respectfully disagree.  To each his own in that respect.

Now if this discussion is about politics, however, we believe everything should be judged without any political factors in the mix at all.  Judges assessing the best physiques (as they see them on that day) without any overrides from head judges, or companies, or managers.  To be fair a lot of the same athletes would still win - there is a reason why they are sponsored, or managed - they are really good.
   
Team FigureRX
www.FigureRX.com

Ugh, that's my point.  You assume that because you were told something, that must be the actual reason for why things happen.  You guys think all the judges have equal input?  Did you ever notice that only ONE judge actually enters/tallies the scores?  That is how shows get rigged.  You can rig an entire panel, it's to hard.  That's why at shows, you'll see the little slips of paper with suit numbers on it.  This is mainly at national shows.  That is how the top judges knows who's score needs to be where. 

Issac, I don't need to remove anything.  If you don't think they are rewarding hard bodies, then I would LOVE to know what shows you've attended.  I saw a certain top level pro athlete just weeks ago at a shoot and nearly died.  She was hard as nails and she was 2 weeks past a show.  She will be doing the O.  The extreme hardness was insane. She was also awarded a top spot, no surprise. 

If you guys would read what I write, you would see what I'm saying in regards to katie.  I believe katie brings in a great physique, but on average they reward a HARDER physique than hers.  So until you can show me proof of someone softer than her, placing in front of her, then my point stands.  I think she is more the line of what fitness SHOULD be, not what they are doing. 

[Denny Crane]

Dina has Denny Crane written all over her.

Who the hell is this FigureRX group? Never heard of them and now they have a team and cover all shows?

[FigureRX]

We like you Denny - come on over to the RX site, look around and say hello.

Dina has Denny Crane written all over her.

Who the hell is this FigureRX group? Never heard of them and now they have a team and cover all shows?

[Tre]

Show me the money.

[1Fast400]

I do want to point out that there are some very good judges out there.  They know what they're doing and what they are looking at.  My biggest gripe is that the head judge owns a management company that manages the people he judges.  That is what I have a problem with. 

[Scooby]

You can rig an entire panel, it's to hard.

That sentence makes absolutely NO SENSE!  Put down the crack pipe!

That's why at shows, you'll see the little slips of paper with suit numbers on it.  This is mainly at national shows.  That is how the top judges knows who's score needs to be where. 

You should have paid more attention to what the judges were REALLY doing instead of trying to figure out which naive competitor you were going to try and BS into bed with how you could advance their career.  Those pieces of paper are passed down from each end of the judging table to the center (to the head judge)... those pieces of paper contain the SUIT numbers of the girls each judge would like to see compared with each other.  The head judge then begins the callouts based on those pieces of paper... which is why girls get pulled out, then put back in line, etc.  Till all the comparisons that the other judges wanted to see are shown. 

They use the pieces of paper because it is a little more professional than yelling from one end of the table to the other since ONLY the head judge has the microphone to make the callouts.

[Denny Crane]

I do want to point out that there are some very good judges out there.  They know what they're doing and what they are looking at.  My biggest gripe is that the head judge owns a management company that manages the people he judges.  That is what I have a problem with. 

Sandi Ranalli doesn't own a management company or does Jim Rockell or Steve Weinberger. We know you're talking about JM, stop being a pussy and say it. JM isn't a head judge.

You sound like skinny stooge who uses his momma's money to bang fitness chix.

[Scooby]

I do want to point out that there are some very good judges out there.  They know what they're doing and what they are looking at.  My biggest gripe is that the head judge owns a management company that manages the people he judges.  That is what I have a problem with. 

Personally I can't ever remember seeing the owner of the management company you refer to being a judge, he is usually too busy sitting in the press pit taking photos.  Also before you go down that road... I can't remember the last time his father actually judged a show either... he has however taken over the microphone and done callouts at large events.  9 times out of 10 at any National level show the head judge is Jim Rockell.

So what was your point again?

[Tre]

You should have paid more attention to what the judges were REALLY doing instead of trying to figure out which naive competitor you were going to try and BS into...how you could advance their career. 

1Fast is JC Lopez?? 

Hold on, now I'm confused!

[Scooby]

1Fast is JC Lopez?? 

Hold on, now I'm confused!

Tre...
I never said anything about contracts to advance careers... so the answer to your question is NO.
We don't need you confused this close to your fall 2007 Schmoe Convention in Vegas.

[FigureRX]

This is all true.  And indeed JM has not been a judge for as long as I have been involved.  I wish the process were as pure as this, however - judges selecting call-outs and then judging on their own, with their preferences respected and reflected in the final results.  The problem is in the overrides, when someone says competitor X (who is on the little slips of paper several times) should not be called out after all because she has sick quad separation, or she's rock hard and conditioned to the core.  It's an unfortunate attempt to "manage" the judges to influence the direction of the NPC or the IFBB, for whatever reason.  I think the judges have great instincts and for the most part they select the correct athletes, but then they get overruled.  Sometimes there is a push for softer, attainable looks so more athletes feel like they can win, resulting in more entry fees throughout the heirarchy of the sport.  That's the worst override in my opinion, no other sport relaxes their standards to make them "attainable."  It should be about the best, on that stage, on any given day.  And this is a process, a direction, not blatant favoritism.  I have seen JM argue vehemently in favor of call-outs for an athlete who looked incredible, and even he was shot down by the head judge and Sandy on that day because quad separation was out of favor. 

Those pieces of paper are passed down from each end of the judging table to the center (to the head judge)... those pieces of paper contain the SUIT numbers of the girls each judge would like to see compared with each other.  The head judge then begins the callouts based on those pieces of paper... which is why girls get pulled out, then put back in line, etc.  Till all the comparisons that the other judges wanted to see are shown. 

They use the pieces of paper because it is a little more professional than yelling from one end of the table to the other since ONLY the head judge has the microphone to make the callouts.