Jay was probably the best choice to win

[240 is Back]

Cool.

If you would've been the single anonymous judge who decided who would've won it all, without any ties to any company whatsoever, who would you have put in first place?

Dexter Jackson.

[Dballn247]

Everyone in the top 6 had their flaws.

Most of the guys had either site injects or 1-2 major flaws.  There was no perfect athlete onstage.  Even Wolf, who looked like a future 5-time sandow winner, needed calf help and better stage control.  He will NOT be overlooked next time.  The mag that endorses him cannot help either.  When is the last time a MD athlete won the O?

I thought Dex was the best athlete out of the top 6, although small.  Vic was very good, but there were calf issues.  Ronnie was a shell of his former self, but still better than most.  Jay was worse than last year and had some interesting issues going on, but he was bigger than everyone else, and bodybuilding is about size.  Coupled with him being the titleholder, and I think we all knew he'd win.

Jay was the best consistent choice.  He didn't screw up.  It was his to lose, and nobody TOOK it.  Next year should be a nice Phil Heath/Wolf showdown.  Given who is signed to which publication, I'm guessing it'll be Heath over Wolf for some time.

This is the truth, everyone had their weak points.  Not a single competitor brought a package that was 100%.  Whether it was conditioning,lack of size, overdieting or missing bodyparts.  Jay was the most complete package although not the best conditioned, but you can't say he was missing calves lats etc.  Some will cry that he didn't have veins, I don't know what the obsession with veins is.  Dillet had tons of them and he didn't win $hit. 

Hopefully this will end the Hulkster truce thread as RC proved himself to not only be beatable, but to drop out of top three contention.

Bottom line...Jay won again......everyone needs to get over it.  All the haters have another year to bitch and moan about the outcome. 

[240 is Back]

This is the truth, everyone had their weak points.  Not a single competitor brought a package that was 100%.  Whether it was conditioning,lack of size, overdieting or missing bodyparts.  Jay was the most complete package although not the best conditioned, but you can't say he was missing calves lats etc.  Some will cry that he didn't have veins, I don't know what the obsession with veins is.  Dillet had tons of them and he didn't win $hit. 

Hopefully this will end the Hulkster truce thread as RC proved himself to not only be beatable, but to drop out of top three contention.

Bottom line...Jay won again......everyone needs to get over it.  All the haters have another year to bitch and moan about the outcome. 

Yes.  The blind people who say Wolf should have won completely ignore his calves.  The blind people who say Jay demolished everyone are dead wrong too. 

[The Ugly]

Yes.  The blind people who say Wolf should have won completely ignore his calves. 

How do Ronnie Coleman's calves/Sandows work into the "blind" scenario?

[Dballn247]

How do Ronnie Coleman's calves/Sandows work into the "blind" scenario?

Ronnies calves were not as weak as Dennis'.  They looked small from the front due to RC's large quads, but from the back they didn't look that out of place like Wolf's.  Give Wolf a few years.  His lats are getting lower, especially noticable in the rear lat spread and I think he can improve his calves.  His lats still look a bit high from the front but I think that makes his look unique, it gives that mass monster the illusion of having a tiny waist (it's not big by any stretch but creates a more dramatic effect).  He's kind of like a blow up version of Lee Priest minus the humungous forearms and calves.

He has the size and comes in conditioned.  If he keeps improving and doesn't blow his waist out of control, he's probably going to end up with a few sandows. 

[The Squadfather]

Ronnies calves were not as weak as Dennis'.  They looked small from the front due to RC's large quads, but from the back they didn't look that out of place like Wolf's.  Give Wolf a few years.  His lats are getting lower, especially noticable in the rear lat spread and I think he can improve his calves.  His lats still look a bit high from the front but I think that makes his look unique, it gives that mass monster the illusion of having a tiny waist (it's not big by any stretch but creates a more dramatic effect).  He's kind of like a blow up version of Lee Priest minus the humungous forearms and calves.

He has the size and comes in conditioned.  If he keeps improving and doesn't blow his waist out of control, he's probably going to end up with a few sandows. 

i agree.

[mesmorph78]

240...
your talkin stupid..
jay shouldnt even be top 5..
he looks like he is morphing into.. kovacs..
wide waste.. dissapearing abs... arms lookin small and smooth... funky shoulders
a shell of his former self 2001...
bbing... suffered a big blow last night... the mr o show is a sham...

[slayer]

lets make it plain and simple for the youngsters that just dont get how it works yet, if victor or dennis were the defending champs they would both have retained thier title do to no one one being lights out dominant last night, jay was the defending champ and had just enuff to hold on by default do to no one blowing him out of the water!

what part of that dont you fools get?


this is the unwritten rule in everysport that is judged by a panel!


jay was off  and could have easilly been taken out, but victor did not come in with all guns blazing, he brought a popgun!

[Al-Gebra]

lets make it plain and simple for the youngsters that just dont get how it works yet, if victor or dennis were the defending champs they would both have retained thier title do to no one one being lights out dominant last night, jay was the defending champ and had just enuff to hold on by default do to no one blowing him out of the water!

what part of that dont you fools get?


this is the unwritten rule in everysport that is judged by a panel!


jay was off  and could have easilly been taken out, but victor did not come in with all guns blazing, he brought a popgun!

meltdown stage VII.

[marcus]

jay was off  and could have easilly been taken out, but victor did not come in with all guns blazing, he brought a popgun!

Everyone knows Jay won because of Muscletech.

[EL Mariachi]

''OPERATOR, OPERATOR!! we got a nubmnut that just said Jay is bigger then WOLF''   


In the stomack area he is, you re right.

[PANDAEMONIUM]

Jay won it last year.  He accepted it this year. It will take a LOT for him to stay ahead of the Vics and Dex's of the world in 2008.  And the Wolves. 

I don't think he has anything to worry about.  The fact that he won this year, with his shitty condition, shows that clearly.  If Jay can win in that condition, he could win in basically any condition in the future.  It's all about politics.  We saw that last night more than ever before.

[240 is Back]

240...
your talkin stupid..
jay shouldnt even be top 5..
he looks like he is morphing into.. kovacs..
wide waste.. dissapearing abs... arms lookin small and smooth... funky shoulders
a shell of his former self 2001...
bbing... suffered a big blow last night... the mr o show is a sham...

I said he was the best choice for a lot of reasons - business included.  I also said I would give it to dex based on physique alone.  But, you have lot of companies soaking a lot of money into guys.  Why do you think thye have had every O winner for the last 24 years, been a dynasty?  Because its good for business. 

Jay was probably going to win, I think we all knew that.  Even after his rough fri night, no one with a brain thought he'd lose, come on.  You know how it is.  WE just saw ROnnie for it for 8 years. 

Jay had better lega than WOlf.  Wolf had better upper body.  Jay had better back.  Wolf had better conditioning.  That's 2-2.  And him being the champ, with the right publication, and a growing dynasty, then yes, as the subject line says, he was probably the best choice to win.

[240 is Back]

Everyone knows Jay won because of Muscletech.

well, I think it's not quite that.

Think bigger picture.  The group of firms and organizations. 

How much does the MD empire go up in value if Dennis Wolf wins the Olympia last night?  Can you even put a dollar amount on it?  Try it.  Start looking at all the areas that will skyrocket.  Then, you step back and realize that *someone* will lose at least that much $ should Wolf win. 

People compete in sports because they love sports.

People run sports cause they love money lol...

That being said, build your own top 10 and maintain your sanity.  It's a bodybuilding entertainment event.  Not a sporting event.

[bigdumbbell]

Everyone in the top 6 had their flaws.

Most of the guys had either site injects or 1-2 major flaws.  There was no perfect athlete onstage.  Even Wolf, who looked like a future 5-time sandow winner, needed calf help and better stage control.  He will NOT be overlooked next time.  The mag that endorses him cannot help either.  When is the last time a MD athlete won the O?

I thought Dex was the best athlete out of the top 6, although small.  Vic was very good, but there were calf issues.  Ronnie was a shell of his former self, but still better than most.  Jay was worse than last year and had some interesting issues going on, but he was bigger than everyone else, and bodybuilding is about size.  Coupled with him being the titleholder, and I think we all knew he'd win.

Jay was the best consistent choice.  He didn't screw up.  It was his to lose, and nobody TOOK it.  Next year should be a nice Phil Heath/Wolf showdown.  Given who is signed to which publication, I'm guessing it'll be Heath over Wolf for some time.

  and how many shows have you attended to date, 3?

[240 is Back]

  and how many shows have you attended to date, 3?

What was I wrong about?  Just because I haven't attended a lot of shows doesn't mean I don't know bodybuilding.  I work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, building sites and working with industry people.  Millions of dolalrs are made each year based upon your top 6 at the O.  Imagine how many posted, marketing materials, etc alone would have to be changed should Jay have lost.  Imagine the pricetag on putting WOlf's name on anything statting monday morning.  There is so much infrastructure behind the marketing machine that is the O, that is the winner, that is the man they sell every decade.  They made a lot of money off ROnnie.  But they put a lot of money into promoting Ronnie as well. 

It's a bodybuilding entertainment event.  A great deal of money is at stake  Enjoy it.  But don't get mad if the best man doesn't win.  The house wins.

[Vince B]

You separate the men by comparing them. If it didn't happen at the Olympia then others have compared Wolf and Cutler and Wolf clearly wins. End of story and all the guessing and rationalization. We all know how hard it is for a current champ to lose. I honestly expected Victor's name to be called at the end. His past record re having a gym go broke and getting busted re drugs surely didn't help Victor. The judges would have said they couldn't give it to him.

Dexter looked fabulous as usual but where are his calves? During the prejudging show neither Glass nor his uninformed offsider could point out this glaring weakness. What kind of commentary was that? Dishonest to say the least.

Ronnie Coleman can use that money towards his retirement. No body knew where to place him so 4th speaks volumes that it was a gift.

Dennis Wolf looks a bit off in the front double biceps. That is a pity. He needs to perfect that pose. He had trouble in the past with this pose so should have nailed it by now. His calves weren't as bad as I expected them to be. When you compare them from the back Dennis wins. The abdominal pose shows why Dennis was superior and why Jay should not have been given the title. If aesthetics count for anything then Dennis should have been first and not 5th. That was downright crazy. The judges should be ashamed of themselves.

Dennis is from Europe and trained at Milos's gym. Both go against Dennis. The competition is in America and not Europe where Dennis might be more popular. The IFBB is annoyed because Milos charged an IFBB official with corruption and Milos got suspended instead of Paul Chua. How ironical the way the innocent guy gets blamed. Anyone working with Milos like Armin never got a fair go this year. Remember when Dennis Wolf lost another contest earlier in the year? What the hell was that? Didn't Kamali 'beat' him last year!!!

I looked at the lineup and wondered where Armin Sholtz was. He was better than just about everyone there! The IFBB sure is a closed shop and if I were a professional today I would figure out how to behave and who not to piss off. Train at the right gym, keep your mouth shut and do what you are told. Sounds like a great professional sport, huh?

This shot is the best shot from the Olympia that I have seen. Dennis Wolf, uncrowned Mr Olympia.

[Vince B]

Here is that shot cropped and made a bit larger. Look at the size of Dennis while still having a small waist. The best back by far.

[pumpster]

Since when have calves mattered?

True but Martinez had nothing; had to be just enough there to make it less of an issue.

Plus to really win this outright he had to be hungry enough to be considerably better than last year, take it up a notch at least in conditioning. Didn't get it done.

Then there's his background AND the magazine connection; someone with his background's never been allowed to win the Olympia.

[just_a_pilgrim]

I said he was the best choice for a lot of reasons - business included.  I also said I would give it to dex based on physique alone.  But, you have lot of companies soaking a lot of money into guys.  Why do you think thye have had every O winner for the last 24 years, been a dynasty?  Because its good for business. 

Rubbish if Victor won last night everyone would be wanting to spend money for next year because it would have been more open. Especially if Wolf had been second and Jay third.

After Ronnie winning for 5 years it was getting boring but then Gunter beat him. Suddendly the 2003 Mr.O was wide open and more exiting.

[slayer]

Rubbish if Victor won last night everyone would be wanting to spend money for next year because it would have been more open. Especially if Wolf had been second and Jay third.

After Ronnie winning for 5 years it was getting boring but then Gunter beat him. Suddendly the 2003 Mr.O was wide open and more exiting.

if victor won last night everyone would be picking him apart!

[240 is Back]

Rubbish if Victor won last night everyone would be wanting to spend money for next year because it would have been more open.

Who would have been wanitng to 'spend money?"

ticket buyers?  I'm talking real money here.  The tens of thousands of products/marketing materials with Jay's image on that.  The year of signing tour securement fees, along with subsequent sales. Can you imagine the cost of licensing the new image from MD, who has a complete lock on the guy's likeness?  Can you imagine just GIVING that kind of earning power away?  Not in this world, my friend!

ROnnie lost in 2003 to a guy named Gunter.  What company signed gunter?

LOL>.. stop thinking so small.  Bodybuilding a multimillion dollar world.  They don't pass around the title - and all its inherent value and potential lossses form losing saleability of said athlete - over some silly ass scoresheet.   It's a contest of comparing muscle, an entertainment event.  Jay is a BRAND now, not an individual.  His likeness will sell product for the next 3-4 years, you know this.  And the labels (wth his title) ain't gonna change.  It's life.  WE accepted it with ROnnie, and we will accept it with Jay eventually.  Enjoy the discussion about who SHOULD have won.  But the marketing and finance machine that made jay a household name in the eyes of nutrition buyers isn't going to hand that kind of power over.

You could prove me wrong, and tell me the name of the last guy to win the O that was signed by a rival firm.

[slayer]

amen to 240 with the reality check, some of you guys take this way to seriously!

come on ronnie could have easilly lost several olympias but his market was carved out and paid for , same for dorian!

cutler did not win in 01 because the coleman marketing machine was bought and paid for, to much money to lose!

you have to really blow the champ off the stage or get old like ronnie last yr!