Is cardio better on an empty stomach first thing in AM - and why?

[wisconsinBB]

Doing cardio first thing shows a complete lack of common sense....in the end, its calories burned vs calories consumed....a.m cardio is a myth.

has anyone here seen a calorie chart that claimed MORE calories were burned for the same activity in the morning vs in the afternoon....no.....

take an already depleted precontest bodybuilder doing cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning will make that individual CATABOLIC as fast as you can blink.  

Doing aerobics at such a time will force your body into even a brief "starvation" mode where it will burn muscle for both energy, and to conserve fat.  Your body doesnt know you are going into a show and only wish to lose fat!

It may not hurt a BB who is "enhanced", but it could destroya  natural one.

Think about it.

Dont believe the crap you read in the magazines

Very, very, very good point.

[Brutal_1]

Doing cardio first thing shows a complete lack of common sense....in the end, its calories burned vs calories consumed....a.m cardio is a myth.

has anyone here seen a calorie chart that claimed MORE calories were burned for the same activity in the morning vs in the afternoon....no.....

take an already depleted precontest bodybuilder doing cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning will make that individual CATABOLIC as fast as you can blink.  

Doing aerobics at such a time will force your body into even a brief "starvation" mode where it will burn muscle for both energy, and to conserve fat.  Your body doesnt know you are going into a show and only wish to lose fat!

It may not hurt a BB who is "enhanced", but it could destroya  natural one.

Think about it.

Dont believe the crap you read in the magazines

TA??? 

[local hero]

i can only talk for my self and every single other competitive bodybuilder i know!

[insidescoop]

Its funny...people argue constantly about where the fuel for A.M. cardio comes from, but ultimately it doesnt matter.  What matters is creating a calorie deficit...and that happens WHENEVER you do cardio.  Better to do AFTER a meal, so as not to deplete glycigen stores too far to create a catabolic state.

The key to recovery is having replenished/full glycogen stores, low glycogen storage will put your body in a catabolic state.  thats why its BREAK fast.

Its naive to think that low glycogen (not eating)  stores makes your body burn fat as the prefered choice of fuel....then NOT eating at all will make sure that your body will only burn fat for fuel.  Then, all those poor starving people in the desert are precontest gurus now!

The ETHIOPIAN Precontest diet!

[candidizzle]

yes. a claorie defecit will allow you to burn fat. but how? because during a calorie defecit...there are periods during the day, or at night, when your body has to function on itself for energy. (burn fat). why does it have t use itself for energy? because you are giving it less calories in one day than it needs to operate...so all of the ingested calories from the day, or from the day SO FAR, have been used up. thus, your body is "starved", and because it is starved, it will use itself for energy.(burn fat). this is the result of a diet that has a caloric defecit.  but in a diet with a caloric defecit...you are only forcing your bod to use itself for energy during short, spaced out intervals in the day. and oxidizing body fat takes about 20 mins. so in reality, a caloric defecits real fat loss happens at night, when your body is empty of all calories for hours on end. so the real goal of any dieter wanting to burn body fat is to get your body into a state where its using itself for energy, and the only way to do that is to empty it of any nutrients. a caloric defecit diets main gaol is to achieve this "starved state" several times throughout the day.

morning cardio is allowing for your to burn off hundreds of calories directly from your body. because in the morning, you have ZERO nutrients in your system. your making your body function on itself for energy.

[insidescoop]

i can only talk for my self and every single other competitive bodybuilder i know!

Mainly because they read it in a magazine.....really high reps and training six days a week was also a really popular way of getting ripped years ago (even arnold did it)...everybody did it...but there was a better way.

Which is the problem with exercise and diet.....someone can do EVERYTHING wrong and still get decent results...thats where all the "experts" and "new" training ideas come from.

[candidizzle]

Its funny...people argue constantly about where the fuel for A.M. cardio comes from, but ultimately it doesnt matter.  What matters is creating a calorie deficit...and that happens WHENEVER you do cardio.  Better to do AFTER a meal, so as not to deplete glycigen stores too far to create a catabolic state.

The key to recovery is having replenished/full glycogen stores, low glycogen storage will put your body in a catabolic state.  thats why its BREAK fast.

Its naive to think that low glycogen (not eating)  stores makes your body burn fat as the prefered choice of fuel....then NOT eating at all will make sure that your body will only burn fat for fuel.  Then, all those poor starving people in the desert are precontest gurus now!

The ETHIOPIAN Precontest diet!

your not going to burn bodyfat food in your body, or glycogen stores. the only way you will burn body fat is by making your body function with out these nutrient stores. then it will use itself for energy. that is the only way to lose body fat....to use it for energy.

heres a deductive argument to show you what i mean..


-the only way to lose bodyfat is by making your body use the bodyfat for energy.

-the only way your body will use bodyfat for energy is when it is asked to function when there are energy source alternatives(zero calories present, zero glycogen stores) other than body fat.
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ___

thus, the only way to lose bodyfat is by asking your body to function at a time when there is no other alternative source of energy other than body fat. (zero calories present, zero glycogen stores).







a caloric defecit diet achieves bodyfat loss only because it makes this state of no-other-available-energy-source occur by means of feeding your body less nutrients than it actually uses in a day. thus, there are times in the day when there are zero nutrients available, and ti must function off of itself. the same thing as in the morning, when you do cardio on an empty stomach.        



you work so hard all day creating these small windows of 'starved cardio" when on a caloric defecit iet....why not take advantage of the morning starvation and burn up way more fat than you ever could during those small windows in the day.

[insidescoop]

yes. a claorie defecit will allow you to burn fat. but how? because during a calorie defecit...there are periods during the day, or at night, when your body has to function on itself for energy. (burn fat). why does it have t use itself for energy? because you are giving it less calories in one day than it needs to operate...so all of the ingested calories from the day, or from the day SO FAR, have been used up. thus, your body is "starved", and because it is starved, it will use itself for energy.(burn fat). this is the result of a diet that has a caloric defecit.  but in a diet with a caloric defecit...you are only forcing your bod to use itself for energy during short, spaced out intervals in the day. and oxidizing body fat takes about 20 mins. so in reality, a caloric defecits real fat loss happens at night, when your body is empty of all calories for hours on end. so the real goal of any dieter wanting to burn body fat is to get your body into a state where its using itself for energy, and the only way to do that is to empty it of any nutrients. a caloric defecit diets main gaol is to achieve this "starved state" several times throughout the day.

morning cardio is allowing for your to burn off hundreds of calories directly from your body. because in the morning, you have ZERO nutrients in your system. your making your body function on itself for energy.

So you are agreeing that a calorie deficit is necessary to burn fat, but .......doing cardio first thing in the morning will magically cause more calories to be burned from fat, forcing your body to burn fat for energy and preserving mass.....so if I could stand it, the best precontest diet would be 0 food, because my body/muscles will know that I am getting ready for a show and thus Ill be huge and shredded because Ill only lose muscle

[local hero]

well were all turning up ripped and your just talking about it!

[candidizzle]

So you are agreeing that a calorie deficit is necessary to burn fat, but .......doing cardio first thing in the morning will magically cause more calories to be burned from fat, forcing your body to burn fat for energy and preserving mass.....so if I could stand it, the best precontest diet would be 0 food, because my body/muscles will know that I am getting ready for a show and thus Ill be huge and shredded because Ill only lose muscle

nope. i never said that. your skills of argumentation are very poor.
i already stated that cardio done in the moring on an empty stomach gave you a mixture of both fat and muscle being burned.
your statement is so asssasanin that i shouldnt even respond. but i will.
a diet of zero food would result in a loss of both fat and muscle. a diet of pure fat would reult in a loss of pure fat. exceptif you were to damage muscle tissue while dieting, then you would lose that muscle tissue..because there owuld be zaero protein to fix it. so, as a weighlifter, damaging muscle tissue on a daily basis, the ideal diet would be a fats AND proteins.  in a caloric defecit, with slightly more fat calories than protein calories. this would allow for all those caloric defecit gaps of "starved cardio" to be entirely burned body fat(because the body is already using fat for energy so its very easy for it to convert to body fat), and for your damged muscle tissues to get repaired by the protein...and for ZERO fat storage to take place. (a "well balanced" caloric defecit diet will still have fat storage taking place...because whenever there are free floating carbs in your system at least a small amount will be stored as fat, along with a small amount of fats...but in  the end because its a caloric defecit you still end up lsoing more fat than you gain.)

[insidescoop]

your not going to burn bodyfat food in your body, or glycogen stores. the only way you will burn body fat is by making your body function with out these nutrient stores. then it will use itself for energy. that is the only way to lose body fat....to use it for energy.

heres a deductive argument to show you what i mean..


-the only way to lose bodyfat is by making your body use the bodyfat for energy.

-the only way your body will use bodyfat for energy is when it is asked to function when there are energy source alternatives(zero calories present, zero glycogen stores) other than body fat.
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ___

thus, the only way to lose bodyfat is by asking your body to function at a time when there is no other alternative source of energy other than body fat. (zero calories present, zero glycogen stores).







a caloric defecit diet achieves bodyfat loss only because it makes this state of no-other-available-energy-source occur by means of feeding your body less nutrients than it actually uses in a day. thus, there are times in the day when there are zero nutrients available, and ti must function off of itself. the same thing as in the morning, when you do cardio on an empty stomach.        



you work so hard all day creating these small windows of 'starved cardio" when on a caloric defecit iet....why not take advantage of the morning starvation and burn up way more fat than you ever could during those small windows in the day.

by your thinking a starving person is burning nothing but fat...

the whole challenge of bodybuilding and precontest dieting is maintaining muscle and burning fat.  Its about working with the human body's natural tendency to STORE fat and burn muscle.  Biologically, your body has no use to be all muscle and no fat....
The human body changes constantly and is either in catabolic state or an anabolic state...upon waking a  human being is in a catabolic state, and eating right away is the human animals main concern/instinct to halt this process

your "windows" theory is something Id never heard of before

[insidescoop]

you are right, my skills of


ARGUMENTATION   

are very poor.  I therefore withdraw my participation in your otherwise extremely intelligent and thought provoking discussion.

I is going to the gym wif my bro Jerone, he be down wif your theory also .

Peace, out

[OTHstrong]

Wow, I am surprised on the lack of knowledge being thrown around here. Lets keep this simple.

The body takes all the carbs you eat and converts it to glucose, the more carbs you eat the more glycogen you will have in your muscle stores.

When you do cardio the body burns the glycogen into energy, so you have to burn a great deal of glycogen before you start burning fat.

In the morning, since you slept all night and haven't had any carbs then your glycogen stores are down to a minimum. When glycogen stores are down your body react by going into starvation mode.

When your body is in starvation mode then it produces ketones (state of ketosis).The ketones allow you to tap into your bodyfat in replacement for food and an alternative source of fuel. thus burning more fat per cardio session.

You can also burn more fat after a workout because your workout could have burned most of your glycogen. If you are scared to lose muscle then do a less intense cardio session. The more intense the session the more fuel you'll need at once and that might come in the form of muscle.

Hope this helps

[insidescoop]

Wow, I am surprised on the lack of knowledge being thrown around here. Lets keep this simple.

The body takes all the carbs you eat and converts it to glucose, the more carbs you eat the more glycogen you will have in your muscle stores.

When you do cardio the body burns the glycogen into energy, so you have to burn a great deal of glycogen before you start burning fat.

In the morning, since you slept all night and haven't had any carbs then your glycogen stores are down to a minimum. When glycogen stores are down your body react by going into starvation mode.

When your body is in starvation mode then it produces ketones (state of ketosis).The ketones allow you to tap into your bodyfat in replacement for food and an alternative source of fuel. thus burning more fat per cardio session.

You can also burn more fat after a workout because your workout could have burned most of your glycogen. If you are scared to lose muscle then do a less intense cardio session. The more intense the session the more fuel you'll need at once and that might come in the form of muscle.

Hope this helps

It still comes down to total calories burned, smart guy.  You wont burn any more calories before breakfast than after, show me that chart if you have it.  Whether the calories come from fat, or glycogen, it doesnt matter.  The trick is to get your body to burn fat exclusively, which is against its tendency.

You can get shredded without cardio, its ultimately about how much you take in versus your activity level.

[insidescoop]

Wow, I am surprised on the lack of knowledge being thrown around here.

In the morning, since you slept all night and haven't had any carbs then your glycogen stores are down to a minimum. When glycogen stores are down your body react by going into starvation mode.

When your body is in starvation mode then it produces ketones (state of ketosis).The ketones allow you to tap into your bodyfat in replacement for food and an alternative source of fuel. thus burning more fat per cardio session.

you have no idea what ketosis is, do you?

[candidizzle]

by your thinking a starving person is burning nothing but fat...

the whole challenge of bodybuilding and precontest dieting is maintaining muscle and burning fat.  Its about working with the human body's natural tendency to STORE fat and burn muscle.  Biologically, your body has no use to be all muscle and no fat....
The human body changes constantly and is either in catabolic state or an anabolic state...upon waking a  human being is in a catabolic state, and eating right away is the human animals main concern/instinct to halt this process

your "windows" theory is something Id never heard of before

your a complete idiot. a starving person burns fat as well as muscle. and i neevr advocated starving. i advocated doing cardio in the mornig on a few grams of fats, actually. and this would cause your body to burn, after burning those few grams of fat, almost entirely body fat for the rest of that cardio. your body burns what you give it. if its burnign fat for fuel, and then there is no more fat in the blood stream, it will slip intoo burning fat from your body. only after a long stretch of cardiow ould it then delve into muscle tissue for energy.

its not a "windows theory". it is fact. the only time you burn body fat is when your body doesnt have any other option. your bodyw ill not use body fat when there are caolries present elsewhere. its during the times in the day when your functioning off of zero calories..."starved cardio"... that you are burning body fat. a caloric defecit diet is creating a bunch of little gaps where this occurs, or, it could be creating a few large ones. or, it could just be creating one massive gap during the night or day...     but thats what it does, it creates a time when you are operating on zero calooires. and that is the only time you are losing body fat.

[YoungBlood]

to the bloke who claimed it made him stringy,,,, u never had the muscle you thought u had in the 1st place, most people thing there much bigger than what they are, look in the mirror and say, i could compete if i were 20lbs lighter, where in fact it would take more near 50lbs !!!


cardio morning and pm if you wanna get realy ripped,,,

Never ever said that I was huge at all, did I? You read into that one didn't ya?

In the period I was referring to, I had done 8-10 weeks of regular cardio in the day after eating quite a few times, and doing it separate from weights (2 different sessions entirely). During this time I got much much leaner (measured near 6%) and only lost around 5lbs total from my starting weight.
Then I decided I would do empty stomach cardio to get in order to get to 5%. I ended up losing 10lb in 2 weeks (compared to 10 in the prior period), and I was measured at 5.5%.
You do the math, genius.
In the end, I agree with insidescoop....a calorie in vs. a calorie out is the basic equation...and empty stomach cardio doesn't exactly make you leaps and bounds better if you factor that into the calorie in vs. calorie out logic.

[candidizzle]

It still comes down to total calories burned, smart guy.  You wont burn any more calories before breakfast than after, show me that chart if you have it.  Whether the calories come from fat, or glycogen, it doesnt matter.  The trick is to get your body to burn fat exclusively, which is against its tendency.

your a complete idiot!

before brekafast you are burning body fat(and a little bit of muscle, but you can make it be almost completely body fat by doing a few small things liek taking a gram or two of efa's). after breakfast you are burnign up....BREAKFAST!

if the trick is burnign body fat exclusively, and one cardio session burns fat, while the other burns ingested calories, then how does it not occur to you that the form of cardio that burns fat is the better option?

[Triple-H_2005]

It still comes down to total calories burned, smart guy.  You wont burn any more calories before breakfast than after, show me that chart if you have it.  Whether the calories come from fat, or glycogen, it doesnt matter.  The trick is to get your body to burn fat exclusively, which is against its tendency.

You can get shredded without cardio, its ultimately about how much you take in versus your activity level.

So by your logic, it doesn't matter whether the calories burned are from amino acids in the blood, glycogen in the muscle or fat stored in adipose tissue.

The amount of calories burned in the AM may well be identical to the amount burned in the PM, but a larger % of them come from stored bodyfat because of:
1.  Reduced glycogen stores
2.  Lack of elevated insulin levels
3.  Stored bodyfat being the immediate source of energy (assuming we're talking low-intensity cardio).

Your argument makes no sense.

[alejandro_torres]

i do cardio in the morning.... simply causei got no time at night...i read   a   lot  about it and ithas worked forme 35 minutes each morning....

[candidizzle]

You can get shredded without cardio, its ultimately about how much you take in versus your activity level.

yes! this is true!

but do you know HOW you get shredded ithout doing cardio?

ill explain it to you...

lets say your a total couch potatoe. you la on the couch all day long and do nothing. so our daily caloric expenditure is goign to be low..lets say for you its 1700 calories. so in order to get shredded without changing your couch potatoe lifestyle, youll need to ingest less than 1700 calories in a day. that way...there will be a point in the day when your body still has a need for calories, but there are no calories present; so your body HAS to use itself for energy...and thus, you are doing, in essence, "starved cardio" for the remainder of your daily caloric expenditure needs. the greater the caloric defecit, the longer you will be in a mode of "starved cardio", whether its at just one point in the day, of whether there are several small gaps in the day.

[candidizzle]

So by your logic, it doesn't matter whether the calories burned are from amino acids in the blood, glycogen in the muscle or fat stored in adipose tissue.

The amount of calories burned in the AM may well be identical to the amount burned in the PM, but a larger % of them come from stored bodyfat because of:
1.  Reduced glycogen stores
2.  Lack of elevated insulin levels
3.  Stored bodyfat being the immediate source of energy (assuming we're talking low-intensity cardio).

Your argument makes no sense.

YES! correct!  coem on guys...lets get soem more knowledgeable people in this thread to help crush these morning cardio nay-sayers once and for all.

[OTHstrong]

you have no idea what ketosis is, do you?

What are you a f...king grade 2 student . I am a competitive bodybuilder and I 've won shows and this garbage you've been throwing around is how they did in the 70's. Calorie deficit, ya OK amateur. You think when I am down to under 6 percent bodyfat your body won't be catabolic anyway, thats why you can't build muscle at that low body fat so being catabolic from low carbs is just a myth plus we have substances that will take care of that problem anyway. Toney Freeman eats only 50 grams of carbs a day during pre-contest, why, because he wants to be in the state of ketosis all the time for maximum fat burning. You know better then Ronnie, Dennis, Shawn ray Flex wheeler and our current mr. O Cutler, because if you watch there videos they all wake up at 5 to do cardio. Or maybe they just feel like doing cardio at that time?

[Naked4Jesus]

Doing cardio first thing shows a complete lack of common sense....in the end, its calories burned vs calories consumed....a.m cardio is a myth.

has anyone here seen a calorie chart that claimed MORE calories were burned for the same activity in the morning vs in the afternoon....no.....

take an already depleted precontest bodybuilder doing cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning will make that individual CATABOLIC as fast as you can blink.  

Doing aerobics at such a time will force your body into even a brief "starvation" mode where it will burn muscle for both energy, and to conserve fat.  Your body doesnt know you are going into a show and only wish to lose fat!

It may not hurt a BB who is "enhanced", but it could destroya  natural one.

Think about it.

Dont believe the crap you read in the magazines

The moral of the story is make sure you're on the sauce before you get on the treadmill in the morning.


ALL DRUGS!!!

[candidizzle]

in order to burn body fat you HAVE to be in a catabolic state. by definition. lol.

"you dont want to be in a catabolic state, but you want to burn fat"..ahahaha




hahahahahha...



hahahahaha



yeah okay. let me know how your "anabolic fat burning" works out...

hahahhahahaha


look up the words before you use them dumbasses