Author Topic: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?  (Read 4134 times)

HowieW

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What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« on: October 25, 2007, 08:15:01 PM »
Why not come out with this press release:

In an attempt to make bodybuilding achieve more universal appeal, the IFBB Pro Div, will begin to implement stringent ,consistant drug testing and judging standards. As was previously started by Mr Jim Manion,( the belly ban edict), we will judge with an EQUAL emphasis on shape, balance , conditioning, definition ,presentation and mass.

Sheer mass will no longer be the main criteria for winning a pro show. WE will judge the contest as a physique rather than size freak event. In addition to this we have keen desire to make bodybuilding the ideal image of health and fitness. We will no longer allow banned substances such as steroids or diuretics.
While some may sneak past the testing protocols, we will stem the tide of drug abuse that has been a sad part of our sport .
I urge the pro bodybuilders to embrace this change . No longer will you have you risk your health by feeling the preasure to use dangerous drugs or endure unhealthy precontest regimes. You will no longer have to risk taking illegal drugs and the cost that goes with it. It is my sincere hope that this will lead to a more positive image and attract more sponsers and TV coverage.This will lead to a larger fan base, universal respect and more earnings as a result.

I ask the fans to also support us during this change. We will do our best to make IFBB pro shows a top notch production . WE will do our best to judge the events in a fair and objective manner. To help inspire more confidence in you, the fans, we will post the placements and scores , similar to what is done in gymnastics and figure skating, as the bodybuilders are judged. I can't put enough emphasis on the support of you, the fans ,at this time. Togther, we can all pull together to make bodybuilding the healthy , universal sport is was meant to be.
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beatmaster

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2007, 08:20:56 PM »

sounds good but... will never happen!!!
are you delusional?

HowieW

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2007, 08:23:26 PM »
sounds good but... will never happen!!!

LOL, yeah I know. Seriously , is  there anything wrong or bad for bodybuilding in what I suggest?
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PANDAEMONIUM

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2007, 08:24:45 PM »
LOL, yeah I know. Seriously , is  there anything wrong or bad for bodybuilding in what I suggest?

FWIW, I think you've got some great ideas.

HowieW

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2007, 08:27:55 PM »
FWIW, I think you've got some great ideas.
Thanks! I would sincerely love to see pros not have to use drugs, be really healthy and the ideal spokesmen for the gym and fitness boom.
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Bruffy

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2007, 08:29:35 PM »
The last press release bodybuilding had was regarding Craig Titus and the love of his life, Kelly Ryan.
I

HowieW

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2007, 08:30:36 PM »
The last press release bodybuilding had was regarding Craig Titus and the love of his life, Kelly Ryan.

Don't remind me.... ::)
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Livewire

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2007, 08:30:46 PM »
I'm okay if they use drugs.


Look at Jay looking all Coked up here:

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Chick

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2007, 09:07:45 PM »
Why not come out with this press release:

In an attempt to make bodybuilding achieve more universal appeal, the IFBB Pro Div, will begin to implement stringent ,consistant drug testing and judging standards. As was previously started by Mr Jim Manion,( the belly ban edict), we will judge with an EQUAL emphasis on shape, balance , conditioning, definition ,presentation and mass.

Sheer mass will no longer be the main criteria for winning a pro show. WE will judge the contest as a physique rather than size freak event. In addition to this we have keen desire to make bodybuilding the ideal image of health and fitness. We will no longer allow banned substances such as steroids or diuretics.
While some may sneak past the testing protocols, we will stem the tide of drug abuse that has been a sad part of our sport .
I urge the pro bodybuilders to embrace this change . No longer will you have you risk your health by feeling the preasure to use dangerous drugs or endure unhealthy precontest regimes. You will no longer have to risk taking illegal drugs and the cost that goes with it. It is my sincere hope that this will lead to a more positive image and attract more sponsers and TV coverage.This will lead to a larger fan base, universal respect and more earnings as a result.

I ask the fans to also support us during this change. We will do our best to make IFBB pro shows a top notch production . WE will do our best to judge the events in a fair and objective manner. To help inspire more confidence in you, the fans, we will post the placements and scores , similar to what is done in gymnastics and figure skating, as the bodybuilders are judged. I can't put enough emphasis on the support of you, the fans ,at this time. Togther, we can all pull together to make bodybuilding the healthy , universal sport is was meant to be.


Howie...

We've had this discussion before my friend....bottom line is, athletes will always find a way to gain an advantage...in ALL sports.

Do you REALLY believe the fans will embrace natural physiques? If that be the case, why do the natural shows always have a smattering of fans attending at best? Fans dictate what they will support, and what they won't...the fans have spoken a looooong time ago on what they want to see...freaky muscle without the guts...plain and simple.

No one supported the scab baseball players back in the MLB strike days, the USFL, XFL, or anything else that was "mediocre"....and their not willing to pay for it either....

McFarland

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2007, 09:19:36 PM »
Howie I see you remain fundamentally confused when it comes to bodybuilding.   :-\

HowieW

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2007, 09:11:25 AM »
Howie...

We've had this discussion before my friend....bottom line is, athletes will always find a way to gain an advantage...in ALL sports.

Do you REALLY believe the fans will embrace natural physiques? If that be the case, why do the natural shows always have a smattering of fans attending at best? Fans dictate what they will support, and what they won't...the fans have spoken a looooong time ago on what they want to see...freaky muscle without the guts...plain and simple.

No one supported the scab baseball players back in the MLB strike days, the USFL, XFL, or anything else that was "mediocre"....and their not willing to pay for it either....

Chic, thanks so much for having the integrity to post a well thought reply to this controversial topic.
As you know I fully respect your ideas and feel you are an ideal MC and spokeman for our sport.
I sincerely think that if the best and biggest bodybuilding organization made a valid attempt to do what I outlined in the above hyothetical press release , it would work and bodybuildning would explode as a sport.
Consider how many gyms there are now compared to when we both first started? INCREDIBLE growth!
I think the sport could tap into that if and only if it was more in line with real , genuine fitness and physiues that were big and ripped but NOT unreal aka drugged....just my 2 cents.

 >:(Of course, as I have said before, my ideas might just sound good and not be practical or even good for business.
Thanks for being candid , I will continue to support and enjoy pro bodybuilding , REGARDLESS of the drug policy or judging, etc. We are both intelligent men that love bodybuilding , so we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.
All the best, Howard
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Rimbaud

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2007, 09:18:03 AM »
Howie...

We've had this discussion before my friend....bottom line is, athletes will always find a way to gain an advantage...in ALL sports.

Do you REALLY believe the fans will embrace natural physiques? If that be the case, why do the natural shows always have a smattering of fans attending at best? Fans dictate what they will support, and what they won't...the fans have spoken a looooong time ago on what they want to see...freaky muscle without the guts...plain and simple.

No one supported the scab baseball players back in the MLB strike days, the USFL, XFL, or anything else that was "mediocre"....and their not willing to pay for it either....

I agree completely. The fans have basically encouraged the freak show so that's become the norm.

Livewire

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2007, 09:25:38 AM »
Drugs are bad, I keep saying that.

Look at this pic of Jay.  His blood pressure looks thru the roof here!
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mrusa85

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2007, 10:29:01 AM »
1990 Mr. Olympia was drug tested. Attendance went down. 1991 Mr. Olympia wasn't drug tested.

Triple-H_2005

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2007, 10:48:46 AM »
Echoing what Bob chick said.  If natural would draw, it would be drawing.  NPC shows that I have attended (and competed) for the last 13 years have better attendance that the natural shows in which I have competed and attended.

Howie, your intentions are good, if a bit naiive.  I would like to see at least less insulin and gh so we can return to the physiques of the late 80s & early to mid 90s.  But if you are so anti-drug, what's with the avatar?  Just asking.

WeenTang

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2007, 10:57:37 AM »
I completely agree with Howie.  As long as steroids and questionable judging are attached to Pro Bodybuilding, the sport will never grow.  

Most people look at bodybuilding like they look at the WWE.  There is no real sport involved.  The health/injury risk prevent a lot of the top young talent from seriously pursuing a career in bodybuilding.  So your left with a show that is mildly entertaining with mediocre talent.

As for why do the natural shows have poor turn out?  Because they are currently viewed as the minor leagues.  A lot of people love baseball, but very few single A teams draw much attendance.

The current fan base is the 1 percenters.  You could very possibly lose the 1 percenters if you remove steroids.  But its the only chance to attract a portion of the other 99%.  People like to fantasize about emulating their sports hero's.  The naturally unobtainable physiques we currently see rob people of this fantasy.  Therefore, there is little interest in the sport.

I understand the IFBB is not ready to make this transition yet, but I hope they will be some time in the future.
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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2007, 11:12:12 AM »
How would fans react to being bigger than the guys on stage? because that is the gist of it.  You can say let's all be natural! but there has and always will be guys who enjoy bodybuilding and use gear but don't compete, like a lot of you guys who post here.  Are you really going to pay or take time to see a show of natural guys who you outsize completely? Are you going to support a Mr Olympia who takes away a $100,000 pay check yet couldn't come close to hanging with you in the gym??

And with drug testing how will it be done? seriously are they going to get piss and blood samples from guys all over the world and test them in one central lab? or different labs? will it be IOC drug reg or some other type? Will athletes consent to blood testing (the only known way to test for external GH use right now and even that test isn't 100% accurate) as it is highly controversial to take someones DNA.  What about insulin? how can they monitor that? The cost and size of the operation is too great especially for a sport that only has a niche market right now.

Also i agree with Chick guys will always find an edge, always, they could implement drug testing tomorrow but fact is unless it is year round guys will ALWAYS be on gear or some form of external illegal substance to help them be better than an opponent.  If the Olympics can't get drug testing right and that is a billion dollar world wide mass market enterprise what hope does bodybuilding?
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Monster_Everything

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2007, 11:16:52 AM »
According to Chick, since people are going to drink and drive we should make it legal to do so. Hell people are going to want to do drugs, let them. Child molesters..well chick seems to think that they will always want to abuse some children so why dont we just let them free on a school playground. Nukes? well countries are going to want nuculear weapons, just give it to them. Why put any stop to any behaviors that people are going to want to do, they will do it anyways...
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littleguns

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2007, 12:07:35 PM »
Howie....what I would like to see is aesthetics and symmetry for ALL shows and not just the smaller ones

At the "O" it's always the freakiest....I would love to see a smaller guy like the Toney's, Darrems etc but just aint gonna happen

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2007, 12:09:26 PM »
People should ask themselves why the National amateur shows are always so exciting and well attended compared with pro shows.  It is supposed to be the other way around.

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2007, 01:19:55 PM »
Quote
Do you REALLY believe the fans will embrace natural physiques? If that be the case, why do the natural shows always have a smattering of fans attending at best?

If the IFBB drug tested, they would still have the best physiques in the world.  You can't use physiques from current natural organizations as the benchmark to what's achievable.  Fan attendance is low at natural contests, because they have B League bodybuilders.  If the IFBB was drug tested, a lot of the guys would still look good.  For every fan lost, there would be another gained because of the testing.     

HowieW

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2007, 01:39:50 PM »
Echoing what Bob chick said.  If natural would draw, it would be drawing.  NPC shows that I have attended (and competed) for the last 13 years have better attendance that the natural shows in which I have competed and attended.

Howie, your intentions are good, if a bit naiive.  I would like to see at least less insulin and gh so we can return to the physiques of the late 80s & early to mid 90s.  But if you are so anti-drug, what's with the avatar?  Just asking.

The avatar is of Titus as is my signature motto " Kelly Ryan married well" and is a JOKE , nothing more.

Ween Tang and some others here understand my main ideas do NOT stem from being anti drug or 100% against steroids or concern over perfect drug testing would be, etc.

1. I am concerned with the LEGAL aspects of drug use . I am a core libertarien and don't think the government should tell me or anyone else what they can or can't put in their own body. I don't make the laws and like it or not, most of the extreme drug use is against the current US drug laws. A pro bodybuilder just can't tell a judge or DEA agent to mind their own business if they get caught with drugs. One thing we can agree on is that this behavior is against the actual law. To sit by and ignore it is to keep ones head in the sand.

2. I am also puzzled as to why a top pro would subject themselves to the health risks and financial hardships that the current bodybuilding drug use requires. Basic logic dictates that not having to take all those bodybuilding related drugs in extreme amounts would be a lot more healthy for a pros physical and financial health.
Doesn't it make a lot more sense to have healthy pros. Pro bodybuilders  that woud NOT  have to spend thousands on "supplements" to compete.

3. Everyone and his brother now knows about steroids. It is no longer a dirty little secret in bodybuilding and strength circles. Bob Chic feels that fans wants to see the best , the biggest, the fastest, which is true. While I am in 100% agreement with that, I don't think fans admire those same athletes when they learn they use steroids.
I think it s fair to say that Barry Bonds HR record is tarnished and not held in the same high regard as Henry Aaron or Babe Ruth. Fans want to see the best, no question, but when they cheat and break rules to do it, most fans won't accept that. The ironic thing is that while other sports look at steroids as a bad thing , bodybuilding encourages the use of drugs and acts like NOT useing is retarded.

4. Going to a gym, working out and trying to look better and stay healthy is fairly common and mainstream these days. As was already pointed out the reg folks out number the hardcore extreme bunch many times over.

My ideas would change the sport , that is for sure and many of the hardcore crowd would protest. Bob Chic and others that share my same passion for bodybuilding may agree with him. Bob and these folks know that such a drastic change would be a huge risk. I understand and accept that as a reason for the IFBB not to change .
At least the sport will survive as it is, for better or worse.
I know I intend to go to IFBB pro events and support bodybuilding , no matter what drug policy standards they choose to use.
Thanks again to all those that gave a thoughtful reply, regardless if you agree/disagree with me.
Howard
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HowieW

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2007, 01:44:45 PM »
If the IFBB drug tested, they would still have the best physiques in the world.  You can't use physiques from current natural organizations as the benchmark to what's achievable.  Fan attendance is low at natural contests, because they have B League bodybuilders.  If the IFBB was drug tested, a lot of the guys would still look good.  For every fan lost, there would be another gained because of the testing.     
Exactly what the reality is. Of course this would end the 'drugs will make you Mr Olympia myth' .

So many guys are in denial that without the genetics and drive to be a champ, all the drugs in the world won't make it happen.
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rk272727

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2007, 02:20:29 PM »
WHY DOES IT MATTER THEY LET BILLY AN DVINNY POSEDOWN AND DISGRACE THE BODYBUILDING WORLD AT THE BIGGEST EVENT FOR BODYBUILDING
b

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Re: What is wrong with pro bodybuilding trying this...?
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2007, 03:22:08 PM »
What Bob said is right on the money...to echo, look at the lack of success "natural" organizations have.

However Howie, I do agree that some of the drug use is out of hand and is dangerous for some of the competitors considering the limits they push their drug use to...especially when we're talking about what many do right before a comp.

Even so, although everything you said sounds nice on paper, it's just not plausible. We're talking about "pro-bodybuilding" and people want to see "Pro's" big guys who are beyond what the average guy can obtain himself.

This is not to knock what you said, but what you're asking for seems to be a stage of basically male fitness models. Anyone who leans out enough is going to display some level of muscle, they're going to appear healthy and in shape...anyone can do this. But to be able to do it (lean out) and still display mountains of muscle, this is one of the biggest things that separate pro's from the rest of the gym rats.