Author Topic: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND  (Read 6681 times)

ripitupbaby

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2007, 05:11:51 AM »
Sweet. Can you and DP step down so I can clean this mess up and get back to having everyone call each other gay? ;D


You got anything more original? 

:)

kiwiol

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2007, 05:33:43 AM »
You got anything more original? 

Nope

davidpaul

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2007, 06:59:23 AM »
Nope

Theres a lot more depth to you, than you let on, always remember that.

Alex England

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2007, 08:34:00 AM »
Why are my posts deleted? You call me out with this thread and then delete my posts? Pretty fucking lame. :-\

davidpaul

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2007, 09:27:35 AM »
Why are my posts deleted? You call me out with this thread and then delete my posts? Pretty fucking lame. :-\

have you ever heard of a word called irony?

Alex England

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2007, 09:35:43 AM »
have you ever heard of a word called irony?



No, what does it mean?

ripitupbaby

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2007, 09:39:09 AM »


No, what does it mean?


It means you are a fucking idiot. 

Why do you keep coming online and offline again?  Will you please stop stalking?  It's getting creepy. 

:)

davidpaul

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2007, 09:42:08 AM »


No, what does it mean?

Irony is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is a gap or incongruity between what a speaker or a writer says and what is generally understood (either at the time, or in the later context of history). Irony may also arise from a discordance between acts and results, especially if it is striking, and seen by an outside audience. Irony is understood as an aesthetic evaluation by an audience, which relies on a sharp discordance between the real and the ideal, and which is variously applied to texts, speech, events, acts, and even fashion. All the different senses of irony revolve around the perceived notion of an incongruity, or a gap between an understanding of reality, or expectation of a reality, and what actually happens.

There are different kinds of irony. For example:

Tragic (or dramatic) irony occurs when a character on stage or in a story is ignorant, but the audience watching knows his or her eventual fate, as in Shakespeare’s play Romeo and Juliet.
Socratic irony takes place when someone (classically a teacher) pretends to be foolish or ignorant, to expose the ignorance of another (and the teaching-audience, but not the student-victim, realizes the teacher's plot).
Cosmic irony is when a higher being or force interferes in a character's life, creating ironic settings.
H. W. Fowler, in Modern English Usage, says of irony:

Irony is a form of utterance that postulates a double audience, consisting of one party that hearing shall hear & shall not understand, & another party that, when more is meant than meets the ear, is aware both of that more & of the outsiders’ incomprehension.[1]
Irony threatens authoritative models of discourse by "removing the semantic security of ‘one signifier : one signified’";[2][3] irony has some of its foundation in the onlooker’s perception of paradox which arises from insoluble problems.

The connection between irony and humor is somewhat revealed when the surprise at what should have expected startles us into laughter. However, not all irony is humorous: “grim irony” and “stark irony” are familiar.

The Greek word eironeia—ειρωνεία applied particularly to understatement in the nature of dissimulation. Such irony occurred especially and notably in the assumed ignorance which Socrates adopted as a method of dialectic, the “Socratic irony.” Socratic irony involves a profession of ignorance that disguises a skeptical, non-committed attitude towards some dogma or universal opinion that lacks a basis in reason or in logic. Socrates’ “innocent” inquiries expose step by step the vanity or illogicality of the proposition by unsettling the assumptions of his dialogue partner by questioning or simply not sharing his basic assumptions. The irony entertains those onlookers who know that Socrates is wiser than he permits himself to appear and who may perceive slightly in advance the direction the “naïve” questioning will take. Fowler describes it:

The two parties in his audience were, first, the dogmatist, moved by pity and contempt to enlighten this ignorance, and, secondly, those who knew their Socrates and set themselves to watch the familiar game in which learning should be turned inside out by simplicity.



Many have interpreted Socrates as not feigning ignorance so much as expressing a form of philosophical skepticism.

Television journalist Louis Theroux demonstrated expert use of Socratic irony to his audience, by interviewing a number of diverse individuals with an air of relaxed naïveté and appreciative curiosity. This has led to his subjects becoming less guarded and more open in answering questions than they would have been in a more adversarial dialogue, while more often than not also granting Theroux subtle control of the interview.

The main character of Lieutenant Columbo, played by Peter Falk in the 1980's television sitcom Columbo employed the method of Socratic-irony to comic effect. The character's bad posture, piddling behavior, one squinted eye, and constant barrage of seemingly obvious questions were usually taken by criminals to be signs of utter incompetance, even mental disability. Ultimately, he was of course a brilliant crime solver. The slyness of his approach was often hieghtened by the fact that the clues had been apparent to the viewer as well. His signature line was "Um, excuse me, just one more question ma'am (or sir)..." which usually was followed by the realization by the culprit that they were caught.

In his character of Ali G, Sacha Baron Cohen uses Socratic irony to satirical effect. For instance, in one sketch he interviews a professor from the National Poison Information Centre about recreational drug use. Ali’s pretended stupidity in the form of asking questions such as “Does Class A drugs absolutely guarantee that they is [sic] better quality?” elicits a response that makes drugs look like any other consumer article.

The 19th century Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard admired Socratic irony and used a variation of Socratic irony in many of his works. Kierkegaard wrote on Socratic irony in his master’s thesis, titled On the Concept of Irony with Continual Reference to Socrates. In the thesis, Kierkegaard praises Plato’s and Aristophanes’ use of Socratic irony, and argues that Aristophanes’ portrayal of Socrates in The Clouds most accurately captured the spirit of Socratic irony.

Contents [hide]
1 Roman irony
2 Verbal irony
3 Types of irony
3.1 Situational irony
3.2 Irony of fate (cosmic irony)
3.2.1 Historical irony (cosmic irony through time)
3.3 Ironic art
4 Fiction
4.1 Tragic irony (dramatic irony)
4.2 Comic irony
4.3 Metafiction
5 Irony as infinite, absolute negativity
6 Usage controversy
7 Cultural variation
8 Notes
9 Bibliography
10 External links
 


[edit] Roman irony
In Roman times, irony was used in public speaking and rhetoric, in which the words used were opposite their meaning or intent.[citation needed]

Shakespeare imitated Roman irony in his play Julius Caesar in Mark Antony’s speech: "Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears! I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him." (III, ii, 78–79), continually emphasizing that Brutus and the conspirators "are honourable men." The subsequent monologue uses extensive irony to glorify Caesar; Antony selects words that seem to support the assassins, while his purpose and his effect is to incite the crowd against them.


[edit] Verbal irony
Verbal irony is distinguished from related phenomena such as situational irony and dramatic irony in that it is produced intentionally by speakers. For instance, if a speaker exclaims, “I’m not upset!” but reveals an upset emotional state through her voice while truly trying to claim she's not upset, it would not be verbal irony just by virtue of its verbal manifestation (it would, however, be situational irony). But if the same speaker said the same words and intended to communicate that she was upset by claiming she was not, the utterance would be verbal irony. This distinction gets at an important aspect of verbal irony: speakers communicate implied propositions that are intentionally contradictory to the propositions contained in the words themselves. There are examples of verbal irony that do not rely on saying the opposite of what one means, and there are cases where all the traditional criteria of irony exist and the utterance is not ironic.

A fair amount of confusion has surrounded the issue regarding the relationship between verbal irony and sarcasm, and psychology researchers have addressed the issue directly (e.g, Lee & Katz, 1998). For example, ridicule is an important aspect of sarcasm, but not verbal irony in general. By this account, sarcasm is a particular kind of personal criticism leveled against a person or group of persons that incorporates verbal irony. For example, a person reports to her friend that rather than going to a medical doctor to treat her ovarian cancer, she has decided to see a spiritual healer instead. In response her friend says sarcastically, "Great idea! I hear they do fine work!" (Note that this could easily be spoken literally by a person who believes in spiritual healing as a legitimate treatment for cancer.) The friend could have also replied with any number of ironic expressions that should not be labeled as sarcasm exactly, but still have many shared elements with sarcasm.

Research shows that most instances of verbal irony are considered to be sarcastic, suggesting that the term sarcasm is more widely used than its technical definition suggests it should be (Bryant & Fox Tree, 2002; Gibbs, 2000). Some psycholinguistic theorists suggest that sarcasm ("Great idea!", "I hear they do fine work."), hyperbole ("That's the best idea I have heard in years!"), understatement ("Sure, what the hell, it's only cancer..."), rhetorical questions ("What, does your spirit have cancer?"), double entendre ("I'll bet if you do that, you'll be communing with spirits in no time...") and jocularity ("Get them to fix your bad back while you're at it.") should all be considered forms of verbal irony (Gibbs, 2000). The differences between these tropes can be quite subtle, and relate to typical emotional reactions of listeners, and the rhetorical goals of the speakers. Regardless of the various ways folk taxonomies categorize figurative language types, people in conversation are attempting to decode speaker intentions and discourse goals, and are not generally identifying, by name, the kinds of tropes used.


[edit] Types of irony
 
A "no smoking" notice adorns the Sherlock Holmes tiles in Baker Street tube station, a prime example of situational irony.The word “irony” is used in many different situations in which an issue or result seems to contradict normal expectations derived from the previous state or condition.


[edit] Situational irony
Definition: irony of a situation is a discrepancy between the expected result and actual results when enlivened by 'perverse appropriateness.'.

Examples:

In Noel Coward's Oscar-winning Cavalcade, extremely happy honeymooners wonder how long their joy will last. The camera pulls back to reveal a life preserver stenciled “RMS Titanic.”
A situation immortalized in O. Henry's story The Gift of the Magi, in which a young couple is too poor to buy each other Christmas gifts. The man finally pawns his heirloom pocket watch to buy his wife a set of combs for her long, beautiful, prized hair. She, meanwhile, cuts off her treasured hair to sell it to a wig-maker for money to buy her husband a watch-chain. The irony is twofold: the couple, having parted with their tangible valuables, is caused by the act to discover the richness of the intangible.
When John Hinckley attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan, all of his shots initially missed the President; however a bullet ricocheted off the bullet-proof windows of the Presidential limousine and struck Reagan in the chest. Thus, the windows made to protect the President from gunfire were partially responsible for his being shot.
Rock trio ZZ Top are famously associated with the chest-length beards of guitarist Billy Gibbons and bassist Dusty Hill. The group's drummer, who only has a mustache, happens to be named Frank Beard.
A man jumps over a giant waterfall e.g. Niagara Falls in a barrel and survives, only to take a cleanup shower where he slips on the soap and dies from trauma.
Arnold Schwarzenegger, an actor famous for his violence in film, campaigning against violence in video games in general - which ironically includes those featuring his own characters.
An anti-technology website.
An anti-federalist runs for president.

[edit] Irony of fate (cosmic irony)
The common household expression “irony of fate” stems from the notion that the gods (or the Fates) are amusing themselves by toying with the minds of mortals, with deliberate ironic intent. Closely connected with cosmic irony, it arises from sharp contrasts between reality and human ideals, or between human intentions and actual results.

For example:

The artist Monet's loss of vision.
Ludwig van Beethoven’s loss of hearing.
Importing Cane Toads to Australia to protect the environment only to create worse environmental problems for Australia.
Both tetraethyl lead and the chlorofluorocarbon Freon-12 were invented as safe chemicals (both by chemist and mechanical engineer Thomas Midgley), and intended for wide environmental use. However, both compounds were environmental disasters: the first resulting in widespread lead poisoning, and the second class of compounds in widespread harm to the ozone layer.
Organic farming and health expert J.I. Rodale declared in a New York Times Magazine interview on June 4, 1971 that "I'm going to live to be 100, unless I'm run down by a sugar-crazed taxi driver". The very next day he was a guest on The Dick Cavett Show and again spoke about his plans for a long life saying that "I never felt better in my life!" Later in the show, he appeared to fall asleep while another guest was speaking, only to be found dead of a heart attack.
At the age of 23, basketball star "Pistol" Pete Maravich told a Pennsylvania reporter, "I don't want to play 10 years [in the NBA] and then die of a heart attack when I'm 40."[4] In 1988 he collapsed and died of a heart attack at age 40, after playing 10 NBA seasons.
Jim Fixx, who did much to popularize jogging as a form of healthy exercise in his 1977 book "The Complete Book of Running", died at the age of 52 of a heart attack while out jogging.

[edit] Historical irony (cosmic irony through time)
When history is seen through modern eyes, it sometimes happens that there is an especially sharp contrast between the way historical figures see their world and the probable future of their world, and what actually transpired. When the World War which began the 20th century (Also known as "World War I") was called The War to End All Wars, this later became an example of historical irony. Historical irony is therefore a subset of cosmic irony, but one in which the element of time is bound up.

Examples:

Contrasting statements were made at the dawn of computers, which were initially thought to be devices never capable of use outside a government or academic setting, with Thomas Watson, Chairman of IBM, saying, "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Historical irony is often encapsulated into statement:

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Nearly the last words of American Civil War General John Sedgwick before being shot through the eye by a Confederate sniper..[5]
In response to Mrs. Connally's comment, "Mr. President, you can't say that Dallas doesn't love you." John F. Kennedy uttered his last words, "That's very obvious."[6]
There are, however, many incidents of futurists or others making incorrect predictions of the future, without being examples of historical irony.


[edit] Ironic art
Most clever and satirical art is in some way ironic. The layers of complexity are added as more than one meaning can be attached to the piece. The subject can be taken for face value or absorbed into the conscious of association. Ideas may possess more than one interpretation. The alternate meanings do not come about due to personal experience, but rather the typical association of alternate meanings. In this way ironic art is almost always specific to culture, language or time period. Ironic art differs from satire as it does not have an intended target. Likewise it does not have an agenda to get across. Visually speaking this term is typically confined to the graphic design realm. Musically, this term is applied to individuals and bands that do not take themselves seriously. It is commonly said that a good sense of humor is needed to appreciate ironic music.

Graphic Design Examples:

The Communist Party by Tom Burns
Our House by Jean Jullien
Band Examples:

Dethklok
Deerhoof
Hot Chip
Paul Barman
Spinal Tap
Tenacious D
Nerdcore rappers

[edit] Fiction
A typical use of irony of fate occurs in the climax of Disney’s The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Frollo, the villain, stands upon a gargoyle. He raises his sword to strike Esmeralda, and says, “And He shall smite the wicked and plunge them into the fiery pit!” At that moment, the gargoyle breaks off, sending Frollo falling to his death into the courtyard, filled with molten lead that Quasimodo had spilled to stop the oncoming guards. The irony is that Frollo’s line is used in reference to Esmeralda, but instead it winds up applying to Frollo himself as he plunges into the fiery pit of molten lead.

Situations resembling poetic justice, but lacking the aspect of justice, may also be ascribed to the irony of fate.


[edit] Tragic irony (dramatic irony)
Dramatic irony is very similar to verbal irony. Dramatic irony contains elements of contrast, but it usually refers to a situation in a greek play where a character who is omniscient watches over a less educated character as that character experiences a situation or event that is of lesser significance than that character realizes. Tragic irony particularly characterized the drama of ancient Greece, owing to the familiarity of the spectators with the legends on which so many of the plays were based. In this form of irony, the words and actions of the characters belie the real situation, which the spectators fully realize. It may take several forms: the character speaking may realize the irony of his words while the rest of the characters may not; or he or she may be unconscious while the other actors share the knowledge with the spectators; or the spectators may alone realize the irony. Sophocles’ Oedipus the King provides a classic example of tragic irony at its fullest and finest.

Irony may come to expression in inappropriate behavior. A witness to a scene involving threats of violence, for example, may perceive continued politeness on the part of the victim as increasingly ironic as it becomes increasingly inappropriate. Sometimes the “second” audience is the private self of the ironist.

When not recognized, irony can lead to misunderstanding. Even if an ironic statement is recognized as such, it often expresses less clearly what the speaker or writer wants to say than would a direct statement.

Another famous case of tragic irony occurs in the William Shakespeare play, Romeo and Juliet. When Romeo finds Juliet in a drugged death-like sleep, he assumes her to be dead and kills himself. Upon awakening to find her dead lover beside her, Juliet kills herself with his knife. Also, the play Richard III is full of dramatic irony. Many of Richard's lines are the complete antitheses of what he and the audience know he is thinking.


[edit] Comic irony
Layers of comic irony pervade (as an example) Jane Austen’s novels. The first sentence of Pride and Prejudice famously opens with a nearly mathematical postulate. “It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.” The scene that follows immediately betrays the proposal. “No, a rich young man moving into the neighborhood did not come to seek a wife.” In fact, it soon becomes clear that Austen means the opposite: women (or their mothers) are always in search of, and desperately on the lookout for, a rich single man to make a husband. The irony deepens as the story promotes his romance and ends in a double wedding.



hope that helped

Alex England

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2007, 09:48:20 AM »
Ahhhhhhhh, I see. Thanks for that Davidpaul. So the irony you are refering to in this case is Rip moaning like a little bitch about censorship at MD then taking over a suposeidly uncensored board at Getbig and deleting any posts she doesn't like.
You are right Davidpaul, that is pretty ironic. Or hypocritical. ;D

davidpaul

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2007, 09:52:31 AM »
Ahhhhhhhh, I see. Thanks for that Davidpaul. So the irony you are refering to in this case is Rip moaning like a little bitch about censorship at MD then taking over a suposeidly uncensored board at Getbig and deleting any posts she doesn't like.
You are right Davidpaul, that is pretty ironic. Or hypocritical. ;D

meltdown.

Alex England

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2007, 09:58:39 AM »

It means you are a fucking idiot. 

Why do you keep coming online and offline again?  Will you please stop stalking?  It's getting creepy. 



I have a problem with my internet connection. Its a little creepy you are checking up on me. And I am hardly stalking you by posting in one thread. Can't we just be freinds :-*

ripitupbaby

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2007, 10:01:23 AM »
I have a problem with my internet connection. Its a little creepy you are checking up on me. And I am hardly stalking you by posting in one thread. Can't we just be freinds :-*


You were posting shit from all over the V board on the MD Board over the last several days.  Then you joined GB and have made ZERO relevant or interesting posts anywhere on this board.   


Are you still pissed that I told True Adonis that you were the one modifying his posts on the MD Board, which led to you being forced to publicly apologize to TA in order to keep your modship?   ;)

:)

noc

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2007, 10:07:02 AM »
Alex whats this thread all about on MD?

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=16243

crazy fools  ::)

Alex England

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2007, 10:12:22 AM »

You were posting shit from all over the V board on the MD Board over the last several days.  Then you joined GB and have made ZERO relevant or interesting posts anywhere on this board.   


Are you still pissed that I told True Adonis that you were the one modifying his posts on the MD Board, which led to you being forced to publicly apologize to TA in order to keep your modship?   ;)



What are you talking about? I left my name on one of his posts after I changed it, so hardly. Didn't exactly do me anyharm anyhow. You have a tendancy for exageration, try not to get so emotional.
Maybe you are upset your endless 'look at me' shmoe thread has gone from MD :'( :'(  

LMV

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2007, 10:12:41 AM »


hahahah The Great Alex England owning the shit out of some getbig pussies

kiwiol

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2007, 10:20:42 AM »

hahahah The Great Alex England owning the shit out of some getbig pussies

STFU until you're given permission to open your cockholster, bitch.

Hahahaha I bet you and Alex go down on each other more than Getbig goes down on us Getbiggers - assuming you're male here, of course

LMV

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2007, 10:22:52 AM »
STFU until you're given permission to open your cockholster, bitch.

Hahahaha I bet you and Alex go down on each other more than Getbig goes down on us Getbiggers - assuming you're male here, of course

Mighty Midget to the rescue

Tell us another one of your incredibly interesting adventures Apu

kiwiol

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2007, 10:24:51 AM »
Mighty Midget to the rescue

Tell us another one of your incredibly interesting adventures Apu

Doubt if you'll find any of them interesting - I've had no rough 'encounters' with well hung Jamaicans like you have

LMV

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2007, 10:26:57 AM »
Doubt if you'll find any of them interesting - I've had no rough 'encounters' with well hung Jamaicans like you have

Are you not that peculiar looking chubby black specimen Apu ?

kiwiol

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2007, 10:35:33 AM »
Are you not that peculiar looking chubby black specimen Apu ?

Let's see - I'm not your mom, so definitely not you pig :-*

ripitupbaby

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2007, 10:36:57 AM »
Alex whats this thread all about on MD?

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=16243

crazy fools  ::)


Looks like that thread has already been deleted...what was it about?

:)

LMV

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2007, 10:39:03 AM »
Let's see - I'm not your mom, so definitely not you pig :-*

Your kinda slow, aintcha?

tu_holmes

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2007, 10:45:05 AM »
What are you talking about? I left my name on one of his posts after I changed it, so hardly. Didn't exactly do me anyharm anyhow. You have a tendancy for exageration, try not to get so emotional.
Maybe you are upset your endless 'look at me' shmoe thread has gone from MD :'( :'(  


Don't worry gang... there's still plenty of other Schmoe threads on MD for all to see.

Alex England

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2007, 11:33:31 AM »

Don't worry gang... there's still plenty of other Schmoe threads on MD for all to see.

I notice you use a capital S, I was unaware schmoe was a proper noun. Or is the a hidden subtext that escapes me tu? ??? :D

tu_holmes

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Re: HI SALLYANNE, HI DBOWDEN, HI ALEX ENGLAND
« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2007, 11:37:03 AM »
I notice you use a capital S, I was unaware schmoe was a proper noun. Or is the a hidden subtext that escapes me tu? ??? :D

I use it in proper reverence to the famous "SchmoeCountry".

:D

If my capitalization causes you grief... I just don't know what to say about that.