FOX News Poll: Half of Voters Eye Candidates' Abortion Stance

[Cap]

I think religion does sway some from not getting an abortion.

If ever there has been ONE voter who used religion as a basis for deciding abortion is wrong, then my point has been proven.

That doesn't make it important but simply a contributing factor, and a rather important one for people but still only A factor.  I would think that simply killing an innocent child is wrong in the eyes of an atheist. 

What cracks me up though is that we advocate for prisoner rights but not fetus' rights, have 20 appeals in murder trials and want to abolish the death penalty and yet kill babies.  Even funnier or sad (IMO) is that the liberal nut jobs spit on soldiers for accidentally kill a foreign child in a time of war (eg. Vietnam) but advocate for some slut to kill her child because she was not ready.  Oh brother.      

[Dos Equis]

That doesn't make it important but simply a contributing factor, and a rather important one for people but still only A factor.  I would think that simply killing an innocent child is wrong in the eyes of an atheist. 

What cracks me up though is that we advocate for prisoner rights but not fetus' rights, have 20 appeals in murder trials and want to abolish the death penalty and yet kill babies.  Even funnier or sad (IMO) is that the liberal nut jobs spit on soldiers for accidentally kill a foreign child in a time of war (eg. Vietnam) but advocate for some slut to kill her child because she was not ready.  Oh brother.      

So true.  Quite a contradiction.  Many also value animal life more than humans. 

[Cap]

So true.  Quite a contradiction.  Many also value animal life more than humans. 

I don't care about anyone's religion or lack thereof as long as they realize what abortion really is.

[OzmO]

Abortion is Murder.

You have problems with our welfare system now?  Legalize abortion and see happens.

But that's not the point, Abortion should on far lower on the list considering everything else that is happening, but Americans are getting duped again.   

[Cap]

Abortion is Murder.

You have problems with our welfare system now?  Legalize abortion and see happens.

But that's not the point, Abortion should on far lower on the list considering everything else that is happening, but Americans are getting duped again.   

Abortion used to be illegal and I've never heard of gross problems with it.  As society has become more dependent on it, yes there would be a hard time adjusting.  What's funny though is that many make the assumption that all abortions are for the poor.  Hell, we pay for so many poor babies born to parents that seem content to pay for 5 kids and not 5 condoms.  It seems to me that those with social status and careers are highly likely to have abortions, even though they have the resources to raise the child.

I agree abortion isn't big on the list but I think there needs to be a change to it in the near future.

# Race: Most women seeking abortion are white (53%); 36% are black, 8% are of another race, and 3% are of unknown race.

# Age: Abortion rates are highest among 20– to 24–year–old women. Rates are lowest among women younger than 20 or older than 40 years but these women are far more likely to have an abortion if they become pregnant.

[OzmO]

Abortion used to be illegal and I've never heard of gross problems with it.  As society has become more dependent on it, yes there would be a hard time adjusting.  What's funny though is that many make the assumption that all abortions are for the poor.  Hell, we pay for so many poor babies born to parents that seem content to pay for 5 kids and not 5 condoms.  It seems to me that those with social status and careers are highly likely to have abortions, even though they have the resources to raise the child.

I agree abortion isn't big on the list but I think there needs to be a change to it in the near future.

# Race: Most women seeking abortion are white (53%); 36% are black, 8% are of another race, and 3% are of unknown race.

# Age: Abortion rates are highest among 20– to 24–year–old women. Rates are lowest among women younger than 20 or older than 40 years but these women are far more likely to have an abortion if they become pregnant.

Don't you think things are a bit different then they were prior to legalizing abortion?

I get your point, but legalizing it now would tax out system greatly.   I'm not assuming it's about poor people.  We'd have to pay for births and care, unwanted babies etc... one way or another and even if it's just the poor that increase alone will cost us greatly. 

 You might be right,  and i think you are if by making illegal a certain percentage of people would act more responsibly, but not near enough will and abortions will just take place in other countries or in basements for those who can afford it.

[Dos Equis]

Abortion is Murder.

You have problems with our welfare system now?  Legalize abortion and see happens.

But that's not the point, Abortion should on far lower on the list considering everything else that is happening, but Americans are getting duped again.   

That makes two big assumptions:

1.  That most or at least a substantial number of women who have abortions are "poor" and will not care for their children; and

2.  That most or at least a substantial number of women who now abort their babies will either get on welfare or abandon their kids, and that the father/other family will not care for the child. 

Personally, I think a woman who is "forced" to have a baby will by and large care for that child. 

[OzmO]

That makes two big assumptions:

1.  That most or at least a substantial number of women who have abortions are "poor" and will not care for their children; and

2.  That most or at least a substantial number of women who now abort their babies will either get on welfare or abandon their kids, and that the father/other family will not care for the child. 

Personally, I think a woman who is "forced" to have a baby will by and large care for that child. 

I think some will do as you say, but you'll see significant increases in these areas:


1.  Welfare costs
2.  Foster care costs
3.  babies put up for adoptions
4.  Birth and care costs
5.  Abortions performed in basements
6.  Health problems from abortions performed in basements
7.  Abortions performed outside the US.
8.  underground abortion clinics will be created and money will be spent trying to police it.
9.  Canada and Mexico will get more visitors


Point is, making abortion illegal will not stop it and will only create more problems.

[dkf360]

There will always be more kids.

What's the loss of a few million?

It's a medical procedure, nothing more. 

Do I support anyone's 'right' a late-term abortion?  No, but then again, that's not openly permitted by law, is it?

If people who get pregnant don't want to carry the fetuses to term, why should they be forced to??

Agree.  The latest issue of Businessweek talks about the rising cost of food and food production due to scarcity of land and resources and it seems to be a trend that is no longer isolated or reversible, thanks to the rising standard of living of third world countries due to globalization. 

I say we should focus on cutting down the human population though humane ways or else there will be hell to pay (literally) for our future generations.

[Dos Equis]

I think some will do as you say, but you'll see significant increases in these areas:


1.  Welfare costs
2.  Foster care costs
3.  babies put up for adoptions
4.  Birth and care costs
5.  Abortions performed in basements
6.  Health problems from abortions performed in basements
7.  Abortions performed outside the US.
8.  underground abortion clinics will be created and money will be spent trying to police it.
9.  Canada and Mexico will get more visitors


Point is, making abortion illegal will not stop it and will only create more problems.

I agree with 4-8.  Not sure I agree with 1-3.  From what I recall, a substantial part of the abortion demographic does not include women on welfare, etc.  I think it's too much to assume women will just abandon their babies. 

I agree making abortion illegal will not stop it, just like essentially all of the laws on the books don't stop criminal activity.  Not sure I agree it will create more problems.  If you believe abortion is murder, then officially putting an end to murder solves a huge problem:  it protects the lives of millions of unborn children.

What is certain is outlawing abortion would create a firestorm of controversy.   

[Tre]

So we shouldn't be FORCED to carry the fodder for welfare families and illegal immigrants but we ARE.

Alive vs not-alive-yet - no contest.

[Tre]

I agree it is primarily about convenience.  And I agree if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant and will use abortion as a form of birth control, she simply shouldn't have sex (just like you said).

Sometimes, sex is just sex. 

Sorta like when Jesus fucked Mary Magdalene. 

[Tre]

I guess if you take the position of many in the pro choice corner of dehumanizing the baby, then the issue becomes as simple as you make it out to be. 

A woman is only "forced" into pregnancy if she is raped. 

I'm a scientist.

An embryo is not a human. 

As I look around this country and observe the overwhelming lack of common sense, believe me, I'm very much PRO abortion (which is very different from pro choice). 

I don't believe it should be open season on unborn fetuses, but at the same time, people who feel they aren't ready or do not wish to be parents should not be...period. 

[Dos Equis]

Sometimes, sex is just sex. 

And sex makes babies, unless you are a test tube baby.  Sex, protected or not, always has the potential to make babies unless one of the parties is sterile. 

[Dos Equis]

I'm a scientist.

An embryo is not a human. 

As I look around this country and observe the overwhelming lack of common sense, believe me, I'm very much PRO abortion (which is very different from pro choice). 

I don't believe it should be open season on unborn fetuses, but at the same time, people who feel they aren't ready or do not wish to be parents should not be...period. 

I'm not a scientist.  Just a father.  An embryo and fetus are both a baby.  You'll probably get the same response from most any woman who has ever been pregnant and delivered a child.  I have been around a lot of pregnant women and I have never once heard them refer to their baby as an embryo or fetus.   

[Cap]

Don't you think things are a bit different then they were prior to legalizing abortion?

I get your point, but legalizing it now would tax out system greatly.   I'm not assuming it's about poor people.  We'd have to pay for births and care, unwanted babies etc... one way or another and even if it's just the poor that increase alone will cost us greatly. 

 You might be right,  and i think you are if by making illegal a certain percentage of people would act more responsibly, but not near enough will and abortions will just take place in other countries or in basements for those who can afford it.

That's their problem then and they can go somewhere else to do it.

I'm a scientist.

An embryo is not a human. 

As I look around this country and observe the overwhelming lack of common sense, believe me, I'm very much PRO abortion (which is very different from pro choice). 

I don't believe it should be open season on unborn fetuses, but at the same time, people who feel they aren't ready or do not wish to be parents should not be...period. 

Then they should use protection, not have sex, or deal with the consequences.  Tough shit. 

Alive vs not-alive-yet - no contest.

Sure, ILLEGAL and NOT MY PROBLEM.  If these sluts can't keep their pants zipped up or can't be smart enough to use protection they suffer the consequences.  But if you believe they shouldn't be forced to have the child then I shouldn't be forced to pay for thousands of illegal bastards that burden this country beyond belief.  Cut off the welfare for them and they'll leave.

[OzmO]

That's their problem then and they can go somewhere else to do it.

then by the exact same thinking why is legal abortion your problem?

You would back legislation that would increase the burden on our system an NOT solve the moral problem of murder or prevent it except in the case of the poor who will get pro-bono work done from doctors who think abortion should be legal and create more unwanted children?

Doesn't make much sense.

Is it to sastify your moral conscience?

[OzmO]

Making abortion illegal will not stop it from happening and it will only create more problems.

[Cap]

then by the exact same thinking why is legal abortion your problem?

You would back legislation that would increase the burden on our system an NOT solve the moral problem of murder or prevent it except in the case of the poor who will get pro-bono work done from doctors who think abortion should be legal and create more unwanted children?

Doesn't make much sense.

Is it to sastify your moral conscience?

Yeah I believe that the country in which I live should not support abortion.  Part of the problem right now is that US kids do not get adopted because of the lengthy process involved here, for willing parents or even adoptive parents.  Imagine how many of them would welcome children into their home.  Another problem is that there is a legal limit (not sure if federal) on how many kids you can adopt; 2.  If wealthy people want to adopt 6 kids and can support them, are not pedophiles and truly want them, then by all means let them.  There is no easy solution to a problem that is now a major part of our society, there is no denying that.  However, a moral belief (separate from religion) can drive legislation.  If there is no problem with execution then by all means, kill EVERYONE on death row and the rest of the murderers who do not deserve to live.  Cut there 20 appeals, quite burdening the tax payer and the legal system and cut the cost of some murderer to live for 20-60 years on MY dime.  We set the system up to provide for some fucking killer but not an innocent child.  That is where the liberal shit heads need to get a clue.  Those assholes had their chance.  Innocent kids should get their chance in the world, especially to loving parents who want to adopt.  Like BB also said, everyone assumes that people cannot support the child financially but I do not believe that.  Check out this poll about attitudes with abortion and income.  It is dated but if I find another I will post it.  http://prolife.liberals.com/opinion/money_race.html

As far as legality, if they do it illegally then that is there problem but it should not be condoned by ANY government.

[Hedgehog]

Anyone who is against abortion and uses the argument that it is today used as some sort of safe sex measure, need to look no further than to Catholic countries with strict abortion laws.

Plenty of sex in those countries, but also plenty of illegal abortions, and plenty of young mothers, and high natality.

Another number that is LOWER than in countries with lax abortion laws: Level of education.

[Cap]

Anyone who is against abortion and uses the argument that it is today used as some sort of safe sex measure, need to look no further than to Catholic countries with strict abortion laws.

Plenty of sex in those countries, but also plenty of illegal abortions, and plenty of young mothers, and high natality.

Another number that is LOWER than in countries with lax abortion laws: Level of education.

Anyone who is against abortion and uses the argument that it is today used as some sort of safe sex measure, need to look no further than to Catholic countries with strict abortion laws.

Plenty of sex in those countries, but also plenty of illegal abortions, and plenty of young mothers, and high natality.

Another number that is LOWER than in countries with lax abortion laws: Level of education.

How do you explain the fact that we are not a Catholic nation, the highest age range of abortions is also the most liberal group with the highest rate of pregnancy and STDs?  They are dumb and irresponsible and deserve the consequences of their choices.  Using a condom is pretty friggin easy and they are free in the US at clinics or health centers and they have to sell them to you at stores.  Despite all the medical advances and contraceptive methods, there are millions of women spreading their legs for a second time to have their child stabbed and cut out of them.  Then they are right back to their backs, taking it balls deep.  This is what pisses me off the most about legal abortion.  I know plenty of young women who have done that shit and go right back to unprotected sex.  The same happens with young mothers who already have one child, they have another and another....because they don't use contraception or keep their pants zipped up.

[OzmO]

Yeah I believe that the country in which I live should not support abortion.  Part of the problem right now is that US kids do not get adopted because of the lengthy process involved here, for willing parents or even adoptive parents.  Imagine how many of them would welcome children into their home.  Another problem is that there is a legal limit (not sure if federal) on how many kids you can adopt; 2.  If wealthy people want to adopt 6 kids and can support them, are not pedophiles and truly want them, then by all means let them.  There is no easy solution to a problem that is now a major part of our society, there is no denying that.  However, a moral belief (separate from religion) can drive legislation.  If there is no problem with execution then by all means, kill EVERYONE on death row and the rest of the murderers who do not deserve to live.  Cut there 20 appeals, quite burdening the tax payer and the legal system and cut the cost of some murderer to live for 20-60 years on MY dime.  We set the system up to provide for some fucking killer but not an innocent child.  That is where the liberal shit heads need to get a clue.  Those assholes had their chance.  Innocent kids should get their chance in the world, especially to loving parents who want to adopt.  Like BB also said, everyone assumes that people cannot support the child financially but I do not believe that.  Check out this poll about attitudes with abortion and income.  It is dated but if I find another I will post it.  http://prolife.liberals.com/opinion/money_race.html

As far as legality, if they do it illegally then that is there problem but it should not be condoned by ANY government.

All of that won't stop abortion from happening.  i agree with the misplaced values.  But in the end it won't stop and will only make more problems.  It's like prostitution and drug use.

Outlaw it and you deal with the unhealthy more damaging aspect of it.

Assuming people cannot support the children only applies to PART of the population, we have planty of poeple bringing kids into the world who cannot support them burdening our system.

[Hedgehog]

  How do you explain the fact that we are not a Catholic nation, the highest age range of abortions is also the most liberal group with the highest rate of pregnancy and STDs?

The rate of pregnancy is higher in Catholic countries. High rates of STD's and pregnancies are prevalent in poor social classes. So as a nation, USA is doing good. If the economic standard and education is brought up in general, ie make everyone an Ivy Leaguer, then you will not have this problem.

They are dumb and irresponsible and deserve the consequences of their choices.

You may think "they" deserve whatever they get. But the problem is that it causes tremendous amounts of problems, both immediate and future, for USA as a nation. The kids born in those homes will not be brought up in a proper environment.

You yourself stated these persons were "dumb and irresponsible". How good of a parent would that make?

Using a condom is pretty friggin easy and they are free in the US at clinics or health centers and they have to sell them to you at stores.

There are restrictions on where you can sell condoms. You are not allowed to keep them in the open, visible to minors for some reason.

 

Despite all the medical advances and contraceptive methods, there are millions of women spreading their legs for a second time to have their child stabbed and cut out of them.

You are correct. As far as Nigerian women goes. But as far as US women goes... You are wrong:



Less than 10% of US women cited "remaining childfree" as a reason, ie using it as a contraceptive method.

Then they are right back to their backs, taking it balls deep.  This is what pisses me off the most about legal abortion.  I know plenty of young women who have done that shit and go right back to unprotected sex.  The same happens with young mothers who already have one child, they have another and another....because they don't use contraception or keep their pants zipped up.

I definitely think US sex education needs to be improved, I went through my entire Senior year in USA without hearing about sex ed or safe sex once.

But that doesn't mean that women in the USA uses abortion like some kind of contraceptive method.

It's a last resort.

With better education, and better availability of resources, abortion will stay just that.

Fight the incompetence. Don't fight the last resort for women.

[Cap]

All of that won't stop abortion from happening.  i agree with the misplaced values.  But in the end it won't stop and will only make more problems.  It's like prostitution and drug use.

Outlaw it and you deal with the unhealthy more damaging aspect of it.

Assuming people cannot support the children only applies to PART of the population, we have planty of poeple bringing kids into the world who cannot support them burdening our system.

This problem is coupled with immigration so it is hard to argue numbers with all the illegals here.

I agree there is no perfect solution since Roe v Wade but I think women in this country could be weened off the usage, like any other drug for comfort.  I just don't agree with it and think that the use of it has little to do with a woman's body but that is how it is framed.  Hell, distribute condoms to all the lower classes and I think we would see a decrease in these babies.  The welfare system is set up for these welfare moms to receive a check so they have children regardless if they are allowed to because they get that guv'ment check each month.  They win when they have the child.  They don't always want to abort.  They also never learn.  They may be the largest group using abortion but if 1 million babies are aborted each year and only 25% are done for poor women, what excuse do women in the other income brackets have?  They surely don't qualify for welfare do they?  I know kids living with their parents who lie to the government and receive this aid.  The system is set up for scams like this so they could really care less.  Again I ask, what is the reason for the other MURDERS if not financial?  Likely a dumb one.

Honest question with no anger, what would you suggest?

Hedge, if you look at postponing childbearing, you have my reason.  These women postpone the birth until the feel they are ready but they were ready to have sex so they should already be ready because any sex act (with penis-vagina) can cause conception.  In terms of condoms, that is wrong here.  They are simply kept in cases and you just ask for them.  Women here do use it as a form of contraception.  The only reason a woman could argue is her dying and that is very low on the US woman's priority list.  I agree on education.  Kick out all the illegals and make our schools better and give kids the funds that illegals do not deserve.  It doesn't have to be a last resort if they used their brain, which is apparently too hard for women to do these days. No glove, no love.  Simple as that.  Women blame their idiocy or irresponsibilty on all others and that is nobody's fault but theirs.

[OzmO]

This problem is coupled with immigration so it is hard to argue numbers with all the illegals here.

I agree there is no perfect solution since Roe v Wade but I think women in this country could be weened off the usage, like any other drug for comfort.  I just don't agree with it and think that the use of it has little to do with a woman's body but that is how it is framed.  Hell, distribute condoms to all the lower classes and I think we would see a decrease in these babies.  The welfare system is set up for these welfare moms to receive a check so they have children regardless if they are allowed to because they get that guv'ment check each month.  They win when they have the child.  They don't always want to abort.  They also never learn.  They may be the largest group using abortion but if 1 million babies are aborted each year and only 25% are done for poor women, what excuse do women in the other income brackets have?  They surely don't qualify for welfare do they?  I know kids living with their parents who lie to the government and receive this aid.  The system is set up for scams like this so they could really care less.  Again I ask, what is the reason for the other MURDERS if not financial?  Likely a dumb one.

Honest question with no anger, what would you suggest?

unfortunately i see legalizing abortion as the lesser of 2 problems.  I also can't worry too much about what other people are doing to their own morality.  I can only worry about the people in my life.  My bother recently got his girlfriend pregnant and was asking for money so he could pay for an abortion.  He's in a awful position financially to have a child.   I told him no way and that he must have the child and rise up to the responsibility.  My Dad said the  same thing, my mom however, a stout catholic, said privately he should abort.  Of all the people i didn't expect that from her, but women can be ruthlessly practical at times.   After some time he decided to keep the child.  My mom, now, is glad he made that decision.

My point with this story is that i can effect people directly NOT to have abortions, but to try an tell groups of people how to live regarding abortion is wasted effort and people will still do it anyway and legalizing it will only cause more problems.