R.I.P. PAUL TIBBETS - AN HERO

[Archer77]

Do you think the Japanese would have done it if the role had been reversed?

Was Pearl Harbor a sneak attack or not?

Were the Japanese (at the time) actively in cahoots with a country who was gassing Jewish civilians?

If the answers are yes... and I believe they all are. Then I don't see how you can say that in THAT INSTANCE that dropping that bomb was the wrong thing to do.

It didn't just save American Lives... it saved lives of many people around the world... Some of these Anti-American statements really seem to be because of what's going on TODAY, and not what actually happened 60 years ago.

Let's keep this real... at the time, it was the best thing to do.

I wouldn't do it today for our problems in the Middle-East, but then, at that moment, it was right.

Personally, I miss Saddam... He kept those neanderthals in check.
Says who? Japan? Would you expect them to say something else?

Yes Japan was signaling that it wished to surrended and knowing japanese culture they would not say something like that unless they meant it.  Japanese culture is based on honor and surrendering can decrease ones honor so indicating surrender is something they would not do.

[benz]

Already drinking beer #3, this one is for all the crazy burned japs who thought they were hardcore.

[tu_holmes]

Yes Japan was signaling that it wished to surrended and knowing japanese culture they would not say something like that unless they meant it.  Japanese culture is based on honor and surrendering can decrease ones honor so indicating surrender is something they would not do.

So which part of that honorable code falls under "sneak attack" ala Pearl Harbor?

You can't have it both ways you know.

[HowieW]

Yes Japan was signaling that it wished to surrended and knowing japanese culture they would not say something like that unless they meant it.  Japanese culture is based on honor and surrendering can decrease ones honor so indicating surrender is something they would not do.

Please refer back to my post on pg 3 and the references stated in it, thanks.
Get the actual facts and please don't infer a conclusion based on mere opinion.

[Archer77]

I rfer you to my post above the references there to inform you of the actual facts. Thanks

That thinking is actually the product of the propoganda promoted by the United States at  time.  Japan was itneresting in fighting the war for two years, until there resources ran out because they wanted to eventually sue for peace so they had an easier exit strategy in china and they might still have access to the resource rich island of South East Asia{ rubber).  There was actually a time clock for public displayed which indicated the level of resources.

[Archer77]

So which part of that honorable code falls under "sneak attack" ala Pearl Harbor?

You can't have it both ways you know.

Actually the united states was aware that Japan intended to attack pearl harbor but choose to ignored it.

[Archer77]

Please refer back to my post on pg 3 and the references stated in it, thanks.
Get the actual facts and please don't infer a conclusion based on mere opinion.

Its not opinion, its based on actually research I had to do. 

[AllDrugs]

Weell yeah maybe but I guess It would have been enough to drop in the hills surrounding Hiroshima... and the Bomb on Nagasaki... was kinda pointless.
Make no mistake the US wanted to test the bomb and they saw a good chance to kill two flies so to speak.

It's damn scary how many people live in this country that absolutely HATE it.  

[tu_holmes]

Actually the united states was aware that Japan intended to attack pearl harbor but choose to ignored it.

The Japanese leaving their consulate is hardly "intention".

Just because we "may" have overheard some static about their attack does not excuse Japan's lack of declaring war with the United States before they attacked us.

[HowieW]

That thinking is actually the product of the propoganda promoted by the United States at  time.  Japan was itneresting in fighting the war for two years, until there resources ran out because they wanted to eventually sue for peace so they had an easier exit strategy in china and they might still have access to the resource rich island of South East Asia{ rubber).  There was actually a time clock for public displayed which indicated the level of resources.

True, the war and conflict in China and into then Manchuria, stretched the Japanese resources to the limit.
They attacked the US in 1941 because they had to try and stop our embargos and interfering with their trade.
We started working on the bomb over fear the Nazis would get one and then used it on Japan when it was obvious they would never surrender.   The 600 plus pg book by Richard Rhodes that I refer to in my long post back on pg 3 is a great, long detailed read on this.

[benz]

The japs were aware of Little Boy (after hiroshima was cleansed) but they thought they could break usa's hand so they had to suffer the all mighty power of PHATMAN.

Conclusion: Japs learned to stick to sumo & flied lice.

[Archer77]

True, the war and conflict in China and into then Manchuria, stretched the Japanese resources to the limit.
They attacked the US in 1941 because they had to try and stop our embargos and interfering with their trade.
We started working on the bomb over fear the Nazis would get one and then used it on Japan when it was obvious they would never surrender.   The 600 plus pg book by Richard Rhodes that I refer to in my long post back on pg 3 is a great, long detailed read on this.

THe bomb was used as a psychological weapon plain and simple and probably had little to do with actually ending the war.  The japanese military was essentialy broken by that time and civilian support for the war was very low.  As a matter of fact the people of Japan, Im talking civilians, had very little interest in the war from the start.  Ive read some of the media documents from japanese news papers at the time and there was decent.  Decent was often surpressed but it was there.  The United States wanted to occupy japan, not just defeat them.  Remember the Russians where interested in occupying Japan as well after being beaten by them.

[HowieW]

THe bomb was used as a psychological weapon plain and simple and probably had little to do with actually ending the war.  The japanese military was essentialy broken by that time and civilian support for the war was very low.  As a matter of fact the people of Japan, Im talking civilians, had very little interest in the war from the start.  Ive read some of the media documents from japanese news papers at the time and there was decent.  Decent was often surpressed but it was there

Ok, in all modesty my depth of knowledge in this is most likely way beyond anyone else on this board . I am not trying to be pompous, but in my humble opinion, it is pointless to continue my involvement in the thread here on get big.
Please take no offense and you do have some level of information and seem rather intelligent.
Everyone is allowed an opinion and I am sure you feel yours is more correct than mine based on some things you have actually read. I have no desire to be rude however and will respect your opinion , remain polite, and bow out here saying we will just have to agree to disagree on this.  Thanks and no hard feelings.  Howard

[Archer77]

Ok, in all modesty my depth of knowledge in this is most likely way beyond anyone else on this board . I am not trying to be pompous, but in my humble opinion, it is pointless to continue my involvement in the thread here on get big.
Please take no offense and you do have some level of information and seem rather intelligent.
Everyone is allowed an opinion and I am sure you feel yours is more correct than mine based on some things you have actually read. I have no desire to be rude however and will respect your opinion , remain polite, and bow out here saying we will just have to agree to disagree on this.  Thanks and no hard feelings.  Howard

Dude, I totally agree.  If came as pompous I apologize.  Its nice to have an conversation on here that didnt degenerate to I fucked your sister.  You seem like a nice intelligent guy and I respect your opinion. 
Mike

[HowieW]

Dude, I totally agree.  If came as pompous I apologize.  Its nice to have an conversation on here that didnt degenerate to I fucked your sister.  You seem like a nice intelligent guy and I respect your opinion. 
Mike

Well said and thanks. I felt I was starting to sound pompous, not you. I am not the end all , be all expert on the bomb and WWII, but do have a decent depth on the topic.
Seriously, check out the book " The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Rhodes, it is a loooooooong detailed read , but will give you the complete record without any poltical agendas.

[Archer77]

Well said and thanks. I felt I was starting to sound pompous, not you. I am not the end all , be all expert on the bomb and WWII, but do have a decent depth on the topic.
Seriously, check out the book " The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Rhodes, it is a loooooooong detailed read , but will give you the complete record without any poltical agendas.

Ill defiantely do that, man. Thanks

[benz]

And a last beer before hitting the pillow, this one is for those who dont understand that paul tibbets is part of the american dream.

For you Paul, For your Legacy, For the biggest favor a man could do to the society: Stop war.

You rule man

[HowieW]

Ill defiantely do that, man. Thanks

Oh and I know you love seeing the DVD of "Trinty and Beyond" the atomic bomb movie.
It shows all the now declassified nuke tests since 1945 to the mid 60's.

[HowieW]

And a last beer before hitting the pillow, this one is for those who dont understand that paul tibbets is part of the american dream.

For you Paul, For your Legacy, For the biggest favor a man could do to the society: Stop war.

You rule man

He was simply the extension of the policy we had to employ at the time. He did what he had to do.
Sometimes life offers lousy choices and or nation did what it had to do, as did Col Tibbets. I think of him as a genuine hero that faced a mission of incredible preasure and didn't flinch.
Now the present conflict in Iraq over oil.....don't get me started, democracy??? yeah right.
Jordon, Saudi Arabia , the the UAE, Qatar and Kuwait are nations we all trade with on regular basis and are pretty stable and guess what? NONE of them are a democracy, they are run by a damn KING!

[tommywishbone]

Yes Japan was signaling that it wished to surrended and knowing japanese culture they would not say something like that unless they meant it.  Japanese culture is based on honor and surrendering can decrease ones honor so indicating surrender is something they would not do.

 

Like raping little Chinese girls, chopping off the heads of POW's, burning entire cities to the ground. Very honorable.

I still can't figure out why Chiang Kai-shek didn't take his 5 million man army, start at the northern tip of Japan, march south and kill every single Japanese person they found. It would have taken time, but he could have done it.

[Al-Gebra]

Well said and thanks. I felt I was starting to sound pompous, not you. I am not the end all , be all expert on the bomb and WWII, but do have a decent depth on the topic.
Seriously, check out the book " The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Rhodes, it is a loooooooong detailed read , but will give you the complete record without any poltical agendas.

rhodes is not the most reliable author.  that book is a interesting read, but rhodes takes more than a few liberties w his sources.

[willie mosconi]

the bombs were a war crime. aside from slavery and the awful treatment of the Native Americans, the bombs were the most horrendous events in human history

[dr.chimps]

Well said and thanks. I felt I was starting to sound pompous, not you. I am not the end all , be all expert on the bomb and WWII, but do have a decent depth on the topic.
Seriously, check out the book " The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Rhodes, it is a loooooooong detailed read , but will give you the complete record without any poltical agendas.

All writers have agendas, whether they be political or otherwise. And getting a 'complete record' from one source, as you should well know being a physics teacher ('test, test and test again'), would be incomplete.   

[benz]

the bombs were a war crime. aside from slavery and the awful treatment of the Native Americans, the bombs were the most horrendous events in human history

It would have been a crime to let the war going on, ethnic cleansing against japs was needed, tibbets is an hero.

[Andre Nickatina]

All writers have agendas, whether they be political or otherwise. And getting a 'complete record' from one source, as you should well know being a physics teacher ('test, test and test again'), would be incomplete.   

Are you a real dr. .. dr.chimps?