Author Topic: BROCCOLI!  (Read 6284 times)

suckmymuscle

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #50 on: December 26, 2007, 09:52:08 PM »
however, i agree that a mix is probably best

  What is the logic behind this? If it increases bioavailability while decreasing the amount of said nutrients, then cooking a vegetable is neutral at best. If so, then raw and cooked are equal in terms of nutritional profile. So eating a mix of raw and cooked vegetables will yield the same amount of nutrients of eating all raw vegetables or all cooked vegetables.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2007, 08:39:15 AM »
  What is the logic behind this? If it increases bioavailability while decreasing the amount of said nutrients, then cooking a vegetable is neutral at best. If so, then raw and cooked are equal in terms of nutritional profile. So eating a mix of raw and cooked vegetables will yield the same amount of nutrients of eating all raw vegetables or all cooked vegetables.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

no, lightly steaming vegatebles do not decrease lycopene levels for example but increase utilization. your argument is that the exact nutrients in which cooking enhances are also destroyed during the same process, this is incorrect. some nutrients are enhanced, and not destroyed hence better utilization. thus eating raw and cooked would give you a mixture of nutrients. its not a 1:1 ratio like you would have us beleive.

things are not equal here and not all of the nutrients that are increased in terms of bioabsorption are damaged, if they are not then cooking is superior for this nutrient, that is why the mix is better.

The Master

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2007, 12:00:34 PM »
It is pretty worthless trying to state the winner of Raw/coocked/steamed without having sufficient data and the ability to analyze them, which we do not have here.

The claim of a "neutral benefit" = a stretch.

UsmokePole = correct.

Princess L

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2007, 01:40:16 PM »
  no, you're not getting more nutrients. Hope this helps.

  Waht about the 2,000 other substances that are dramatically redused by cooking? Waht a stupid trade-off if you ask me.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

So you're saying that it would be better for me to choke down 3 or 4 flowerettes (which is about all I could do without dip or gagging), vs a palatable 2 cups steamed?

no, lightly steaming vegatebles do not decrease lycopene levels for example but increase utilization. your argument is that the exact nutrients in which cooking enhances are also destroyed during the same process, this is incorrect. some nutrients are enhanced, and not destroyed hence better utilization. thus eating raw and cooked would give you a mixture of nutrients. its not a 1:1 ratio like you would have us beleive.

things are not equal here and not all of the nutrients that are increased in terms of bioabsorption are damaged, if they are not then cooking is superior for this nutrient, that is why the mix is better.

Thanks for stating that  ;)
:

Necrosis

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2007, 02:50:43 PM »
So you're saying that it would be better for me to choke down 3 or 4 flowerettes (which is about all I could do without dip or gagging), vs a palatable 2 cups steamed?

Thanks for stating that  ;)


its an obvious argument, you make perfect sense imo.

plus the factor or amount due to taste etc is another issue. i felt worse eating mostly raw veggies for a while, a couple salads a day.

suckmymuscle

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2007, 03:09:24 PM »
no, lightly steaming vegatebles do not decrease lycopene levels for example but increase utilization. your argument is that the exact nutrients in which cooking enhances are also destroyed during the same process, this is incorrect. some nutrients are enhanced, and not destroyed hence better utilization. thus eating raw and cooked would give you a mixture of nutrients. its not a 1:1 ratio like you would have us beleive.

things are not equal here and not all of the nutrients that are increased in terms of bioabsorption are damaged, if they are not then cooking is superior for this nutrient, that is why the mix is better.

  Heat always destroys nutrients. This is not debatable. Furthermore, several nutrients present in vegetables, like B complex vitamins, are soluble in water. Just by drenching spinach and broccoli in water some of the vitamins B will get lsot. Sure, the loss is minimal in natural room temperature, probably only 1 or 2%. But putting it in hot water causes much greater loss. Why? Because heat is a catalyst, and is used by chemists to speed up reactions. the losss of B vitamins is over 20% when you cook it in hot water.

  So the debate is really this: is the increase in bioavailability caused by steaming a vegetable greater than the loss of nutients that heating it causes? If so, then cooking the vegetable is beneficial; if not, then it is detremental. If the same, then it is neutral. As for lycopene, I doubt that cooking tomatoes increases it's bioavailability dramatically. The best way to absorb lycopene from tomatoes is to purée it and put some olive oil in it - because lycopene is liposoluble. ;)

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suckmymuscle

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2007, 03:15:25 PM »
Quote
So you're saying that it would be better for me to choke down 3 or 4 flowerettes (which is about all I could do without dip or gagging), vs a palatable 2 cups steamed?

  I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't do anything; I'm arguing science here. My point stands: raw broccoli is superior to cooked broccoli and arguably superior to it steamed as well.

  Yes, you're right that eating a pound of cooked broccoli with 50% less nutrients is better than eating a quarter pound of raw broccoli since you'll be getting twice as much nutients from the pound of cooked broccoli than the quater pound of it raw. My point, however, is that you'll still be throwing away in the garbage an enormous amount of nutients and thus also throwing your money away. It's your choice. I can't live your life for you. You're a big girl.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

 





Thanks for stating that  ;)[/color]

Necrosis

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2007, 03:24:39 PM »
  Heat always destroys nutrients. This is not debatable. Furthermore, several nutrients present in vegetables, like B complex vitamins, are soluble in water. Just by drenching spinach and broccoli in water some of the vitamins B will get lsot. Sure, the loss is minimal in natural room temperature, probably only 1 or 2%. But putting it in hot water causes much greater loss. Why? Because heat is a catalyst, and is used by chemists to speed up reactions. the losss of B vitamins is over 20% when you cook it in hot water.

  So the debate is really this: is the increase in bioavailability caused by steaming a vegetable greater than the loss of nutients that heating it causes? If so, then cooking the vegetable is beneficial; if not, then it is detremental. If the same, then it is neutral. As for lycopene, I doubt that cooking tomatoes increases it's bioavailability dramatically. The best way to absorb lycopene from tomatoes is to purée it and put some olive oil in it - because lycopene is liposoluble. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

i understand what your saying but your argument rests on the premise that of the thousands of phytochemicals in any vegetable, and there are thousands, cooking destroys all of them, when in actual fact cooking or light heating increases absorption and breaks down things like inulin etc which allow enhanced digestion.

im half drunk now waiting to be picked up and have lost my train of thought but i was going to use some symbolic logic if anyone wants to take a shot. :D

The Master

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2007, 03:47:13 PM »
i understand what your saying but your argument rests on the premise that of the thousands of phytochemicals in any vegetable, and there are thousands, cooking destroys all of them, when in actual fact cooking or light heating increases absorption and breaks down things like inulin etc which allow enhanced digestion.

im half drunk now waiting to be picked up and have lost my train of thought but i was going to use some symbolic logic if anyone wants to take a shot. :D

Go for it.  :)

Necrosis

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2007, 10:21:22 PM »
Go for it.  :)

ah wshit im hammered ritght now no joke got the woemn hammered upstairs perhaps ready to be fucked should i give her raw brpcolli? if so shoud i steam it and then eat it?

u tell me?

The Master

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2007, 10:26:04 PM »
ah wshit im hammered ritght now no joke got the woemn hammered upstairs perhaps ready to be fucked should i give her raw brpcolli? if so shoud i steam it and then eat it?

u tell me?


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Debusseys opinion: Finding the true answer to this question = very difficult and requires a lot of research.

Life = short anyway, so each individual must weigh the benefits and consequences up against his/hers values, and the deeper reasons for ones own motivation.

Debussey just listens to Gary Busey.

Frankly, fucking hookers = more important.

This is Debusseys thread about the "hooker system for a happier life", please read it:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=189815.0


dogpound

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2007, 12:21:44 AM »
Hey gang! Who likes cauliflower :D?

The Master

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Re: BROCCOLI!
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2007, 12:58:03 AM »
This soundclip = relevant in this discussion: