Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)

[tu_holmes]

yea, I'm making it up as I go along, deal with it asshole... You post his pm's anywhere on getbig and you're done here.  I don't give a shit.  It's so beyond a pussy act, I will fucking call you on it.  You want to call him out on what he has said on the board, fine, but keep your stupid fucking personal messages personal.

Signed, your fucking dictator,
Hugo goddamned fucking Chavez bitch.

Come on Berz... You don't have to go there dude.

You're better than that.

[Hugo Chavez]

Come on Berz... You don't have to go there dude.

You're better than that.

I am what I am, it is done.

[Neurotoxin]

Gbers, again no real surprise. Dow was up 410 points today with massive short covering at the end of the trading day. (see early morning post below)
 

Let me explain why the market expectedly surged today.


1) from a technical standpoint the market was temporarily OVERSOLD after dropping 1,000 points recently. the Dow also hit support @ 10,500.00

2) institutions that have been shorting this market have BIG profits and always cover their positions prior to Triple Witching/Freaky Friday, which is tommorrow. in fact, many institutional traders DO NOT trade on Triple Witching, due to extreme volatility.

3) possible regulation stopping the shorting of financial/bank stocks


NT

Gbers, with the market tanking nearly 1,000 points in 3 days, a short cover rally would not be unexpected.

NT

[Neurotoxin]

Sept. 18 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks rallied the most in six years on prospects the government will formulate a permanent plan to shore up financial markets, while regulators and pension funds took steps to curb bets against banks and brokerages.

Senator Charles Schumer proposed a new agency to pump capital into financial companies and the nation's three largest pension funds stopped loaning shares of the brokerages to investors betting on their declines.



NT

[Neurotoxin]

GBers, as many of you know, financial/banks lead the market higher. if new regulation is put into place to stop the shorting of these equities, the market can be manipulated to move higher.....at will.

i'll keep a close eye on these developments and let you know when MY game plan changes.



NT

 

[stormshadow]

GBers, as many of you know, financial/banks lead the market higher. if new regulation is put into place to stop the shorting of these equities, the market can be manipulated to move higher.....at will.

i'll keep a close eye on these developments and let you know when MY game plan changes.



NT

 

What is your opinion on shorting and naked shorting regarding the stability of financial markets. 

Should this be allowed, or does it only serve to add volatility to the market and allow big money to profit at the expense of the "buy and hold 401k dumb money" ? 

What would happen to the market if a permanent ban was implemented on short selling all stocks?

[Neurotoxin]

What is your opinion on shorting and naked shorting regarding the stability of financial markets.  

Should this be allowed, or does it only serve to add volatility to the market and allow big money to profit at the expense of the "buy and hold 401k dumb money" ? 

What would happen to the market if a permanent ban was implemented on short selling all stocks?

short selling is a normal part of the market. no different than buying. i'm personally against naked short selling, especially when market volatility is so high.

if a permanent ban was put in place, the market couldn't work. all markets need a Buyer and a Seller to function. how else could it work?  if all you had were buyers, where would you buy from......with no sellers ?

it appears that the Fed is looking to limit/stop the short selling of our troubled banks and brokerage firms. (unprecedented move)  since financial's and banks lead the market higher, doing this could possibly jump start the market, which is the intent. (too soon to tell)


NT

[SUPREME BEING]

short selling is a normal part of the market. no diffrent than buying. i'm personally against naked short selling, especially when market volatility is so high.

if a permanent ban was put in place, the market couldn't work. all markets need a Buyer and a Seller to function. how else could it work ? if all you had were buyers, where would you buy from......with no sellers ?

it appears that the Fed is looking to limit/stop the short selling of our troubled banks and brokerage firms. (unprecedented move)  since financial's and banks lead the market higher, doing this could possibly jump start the market, which is the intent. (too soon to tell)


NT

Hmm i don't think you understand the principles regarding how buying and selling takes place.

When you short a share or contract you are essentially borrowing a share from an existing holder e.g. you broker has shares available for you to short. In days when things get really bad many brokers cannot give shares to short, either because risk of hedging their position will not work in their favour or they have none available.

You short by borrowing a share owned at the higher price, you will have to buy back that share at a future price.

[SUPREME BEING]

Average guy has started to get into the news and i am hearing every average guy around me telling me how Lehman fucked up.

Not to be offensive but it seems to me that too many retail side bears - every average joker is now talking about the end of the world. Again no offence to people like 240 who are passionate about the news but to professionals - we love it when retail is on the other side of the move. Really you guys know very little about the current situation no matter how much you keep reading the news.

We have to be close to a bottom or at-least a temporary bottom. Too many retailers getting involved.

Again no offence to anyone guys - obviously someone involved in the markets day to day is going to have a little edge on the average guy.

I am looking at 1180 ES as a level for a base.

Scared money = dumb money.

I have been bearish for a long time but have changed my stance last 2 days. I will always step in when i see hysteria - was expecting big rally on 17th got nice rally coming into the evening session but a brutal sell-off. No big deal that's what trails are for. Never seen the public as bearish as they were this week - i had relatives asking me about Lehman and what they should do with their money in the bank for gods sake.

Anyway, got in on the bounce today - classic capitulation - VIX at highs. Crazy volatility and dumb ass public scared for their lives.
If you learn one thing please learn this - always buy or fade hysteria. Monster day - so much money to be made today it was a JOKE. One of the craziest and most volatile sessions i have seen in a long long time. My best day of the year thus far.

Lets hope we can get short term bottom from these levels and get something close to a year end rally. Will take time to build a base while players get inventories in check. Hopefully get the bull back in 2009 2-3rd quarter. I am loading up some stocks i like in my very long term account and will be adding to these if we do get lower prices.

However, on a short term basis, if we take out today's lows anytime soon then damn - i will have to hold out on the long side for awhile in my short term accounts.

All the best to all.

[SUPREME BEING]

SEC intends to temporarily ban short-selling, but not clear if commission has approved the move: WSJ

Government is seeking congressional authority to buy distressed assets: WSJ

This is pure bullshit - they putting a ban to short selling - how the fuck are the arbs going to work now? What about hedging your positions.
The Government has lost their mind.

I never thought i would see the day - 200 years of free markets and now socialist regime has taken over. I never thought the US would be as dumb as the UK but there you have it.

Totally outraged - done with US stocks forever, time for me and many other traders like me to look for free markets elsewhere. Will continue to trade futures but this ban is completely outrageous.

The public is so fucking dumb - they need to be schooled on short selling and stop trying to find scapegoats like they have done on every downturn in history.

See ya later markets - US is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't give a fuck if this is only temporary - watch the volume dry up. SEC and Cox you fucking wankers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SUPREME BEING]

China does not allow short selling - now look at the chart you fucking morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bindare_Dundat]

Nice to see more guys getting in on this thread with usefull info. Thanks! 

[War-Horse]

SEC intends to temporarily ban short-selling, but not clear if commission has approved the move: WSJ

Government is seeking congressional authority to buy distressed assets: WSJ

This is pure bullshit - they putting a ban to short selling - how the fuck are the arbs going to work now? What about hedging your positions.
The Government has lost their mind.

I never thought i would see the day - 200 years of free markets and now socialist regime has taken over. I never thought the US would be as dumb as the UK but there you have it.

Totally outraged - done with US stocks forever, time for me and many other traders like me to look for free markets elsewhere. Will continue to trade futures but this ban is completely outrageous.

The public is so fucking dumb - they need to be schooled on short selling and stop trying to find scapegoats like they have done on every downturn in history.

See ya later markets - US is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't give a fuck if this is only temporary - watch the volume dry up. SEC and Cox you fucking wankers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its called the new world order.   More like fascism than socialism.

[Neurotoxin]

China does not allow short selling - now look at the chart you fucking morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SB, good example. in a market without short sellers, stocks become hyper- inflated and the market cannot sustain itself.


NT

[Neurotoxin]

SEC intends to temporarily ban short-selling, but not clear if commission has approved the move: WSJ

Government is seeking congressional authority to buy distressed assets: WSJ

This is pure bullshit - they putting a ban to short selling - how the fuck are the arbs going to work now? What about hedging your positions.

The Government has lost their mind.

I never thought i would see the day - 200 years of free markets and now socialist regime has taken over. I never thought the US would be as dumb as the UK but there you have it.

Totally outraged - done with US stocks forever, time for me and many other traders like me to look for free markets elsewhere. Will continue to trade futures but this ban is completely outrageous.

The public is so fucking dumb - they need to be schooled on short selling and stop trying to find scapegoats like they have done on every downturn in history.

See ya later markets - US is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't give a fuck if this is only temporary - watch the volume dry up. SEC and Cox you fucking wankers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

imo, all of the above is completely accurate. the SEC is trying to blame the markets DOWNTURN on shorts sellers, which is completely bogus and incorrect.

the markets downturn is the result of horrible US fiscal policies.

if someone must take the blame, make it short sellers...not the Fed or the SEC. 
 
the Fed is desperate to prevent a complete collapse of our stock market. therefore, all rabbits must be pulled out of their respective hats! 


NT

[Neurotoxin]

WASHINGTON -Amid the spiraling market crisis and mounting pressure from lawmakers, the Securities and Exchange Commission is considering taking the dramatic step of temporarily banning the routine practice of betting against company stocks.

The move, if taken by the SEC, may well be unprecedented and a reflection of regulators' concern about the widening scope of the financial crisis as entreaties come from all quarters to stem a swarm of short-selling.

 
SEC Chairman Christopher Cox, Treasury Secretary Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke  held a closed-door meeting Thursday night with members of Congress. Cox told the lawmakers the SEC may put in a temporary emergency ban on all short-selling — not just the aggressive forms it already has targeted, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The ban might apply to stocks of selected financial companies, to all financial companies or even possibly to all public companies.



GBers, you know things are BAD when our goverment must play this game.

i've never seen anything like this in my lifetime. a total game changer.

amazing.....


NT

[Neurotoxin]

The head of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve began discussions on Thursday with Congressional leaders on what could become the biggest bailout in United States history.

While details remain to be worked out, the plan is likely to authorize the government to buy distressed mortgages at deep discounts from banks and other institutions. The proposal could result in the most direct commitment of taxpayer funds so far in the financial crisis that Fed and Treasury officials say is the worst they have ever seen.


NT

[Neurotoxin]

HONG KONG -Global stock markets soared Friday after a punishing week as news of a possible U.S. government plan to rescue banks from toxic mortgage debt brought hope of a letup in the world's worst financial crisis in decades.


NT

[Neurotoxin]

SEC stops shorts. The SEC joined the UK's FSA in banning short sales on 799  financial stocks. "The Commission is committed to using every weapon in its arsenal to combat market manipulation that threatens investors and capital markets," SEC chief Christopher Cox says. The halt will initially last for 10 days, with an option to extend up to 30. Other steps taken include a temporary requirement that money managers report new short sales of certain securities, and easing restrictions on securities issuers to repurchase their stock. "Under normal market conditions, short selling contributes to price efficiency and adds liquidity to the markets," the SEC noted. "At present, it appears that unbridled short selling is contributing to the recent, sudden price declines in the securities of financial institutions unrelated to true price valuation



GBers, as long as this rule remains in effect, expect the market to SURGE higher.



NT

[BayGBM]

bush has systematically destroyed this country financially and otherwise. our country is heading for a severe recession as a result of his failed policies. in the coming months, the stock market will come crashing down. mark my words.

cash is king !

Neuro:

You called it back in November!   

So, what do we do now?

[Bindare_Dundat]

SEC stops shorts. The SEC joined the UK's FSA in banning short sales on 799  financial stocks. "The Commission is committed to using every weapon in its arsenal to combat market manipulation that threatens investors and capital markets," SEC chief Christopher Cox says. The halt will initially last for 10 days, with an option to extend up to 30. Other steps taken include a temporary requirement that money managers report new short sales of certain securities, and easing restrictions on securities issuers to repurchase their stock. "Under normal market conditions, short selling contributes to price efficiency and adds liquidity to the markets," the SEC noted. "At present, it appears that unbridled short selling is contributing to the recent, sudden price declines in the securities of financial institutions unrelated to true price valuation



GBers, as long as this rule remains in effect, expect the market to SURGE higher.



NT

They didn't have a problem with short selling when the market went up to 14,000.

[Neurotoxin]

WASHINGTON -- The federal government is working on a sweeping series of programs that would represent perhaps the biggest intervention in financial markets since the 1930s, embracing the need for a comprehensive approach to the financial crisis after a series of ad hoc rescues.

At the center of the potential plan is a mechanism that would take bad assets off the balance sheets of financial companies, said people familiar with the matter, a device that echoes similar moves taken in past financial crises. The size of the entity could reach hundreds of billions of dollars, one person said.
 
Another proposal would be the creation of federal insurance for investors in money-market mutual funds, coverage akin to the insurance that currently safeguards bank deposits. The move is designed to stem an outflow of funds as consumers start to worry about even the safest of investments, a sign of how the crisis is spreading to Main Street. There is $3.4 trillion in money-market funds outstanding.

In addition, the Securities and Exchange Commission proposed a temporary ban on short-selling on 799 financial stocks. The ban, which is effective immediately, is set to last for 10 days, but could be extended for up to 30 days





market manipulation at it's finest !     guys, once things settle down a bit, rational decisions can be made on a prudent, long term market strategy.

so for now, unless the Dow breaks the low of yesterday (10,460.00) we will turn from Bearish to Bullish. (with a little help from the Fed   )

if we can establish a stable base, i see this market changing course through years end and moving higher.


NT

[Neurotoxin]

Neuro:

You called it back in November!   

So, what do we do now?

just follow along Bay. it's too early to do anything at this point, but the Fed definitely made some game changing, historic moves.



NT

[Bindare_Dundat]

WASHINGTON -- The federal government is working on a sweeping series of programs that would represent perhaps the biggest intervention in financial markets since the 1930s, embracing the need for a comprehensive approach to the financial crisis after a series of ad hoc rescues.

At the center of the potential plan is a mechanism that would take bad assets off the balance sheets of financial companies, said people familiar with the matter, a device that echoes similar moves taken in past financial crises. The size of the entity could reach hundreds of billions of dollars, one person said.
 
Another proposal would be the creation of federal insurance for investors in money-market mutual funds, coverage akin to the insurance that currently safeguards bank deposits. The move is designed to stem an outflow of funds as consumers start to worry about even the safest of investments, a sign of how the crisis is spreading to Main Street. There is $3.4 trillion in money-market funds outstanding.

In addition, the Securities and Exchange Commission proposed a temporary ban on short-selling on 799 financial stocks. The ban, which is effective immediately, is set to last for 10 days, but could be extended for up to 30 days





market manipulation at it's finest !     guys, once things settle down a bit, rational decisions can be made on a prudent, long term market strategy.

so for now, unless the Dow breaks the low of yesterday (10,460.00) we will turn from Bearish to Bullish. (with a little help from the Fed   )

if we can establish a stable base, i see this market changing course through years end and moving higher.


NT

This is just plain fucked.

[Bindare_Dundat]

SEC stops shorts. The SEC joined the UK's FSA in banning short sales on 799  financial stocks. "The Commission is committed to using every weapon in its arsenal to combat market manipulation that threatens investors and capital markets,"  SEC chief Christopher Cox says.

Does anyone else find this pathertic?