Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 466412 times)

MB_722

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11173
  • RIP Keith
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1450 on: September 19, 2008, 02:50:57 PM »
I didn't want to start a new thread,

has some good videos

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=TIGJAY

Manipulating the Market - The Central Banks.


Short Selling - Intervention and Manipulation but by who


Slapper

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4299
  • Vincit qui se vincit
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1451 on: September 20, 2008, 04:49:48 AM »
FREE MARKET ECONOMY AT ITS FINEST GENTLEMEN!!!

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1452 on: September 20, 2008, 07:24:10 AM »
GBers, please read this NY Times article in it's entirety. it describes what i've talked about over the last year.


NT

bush has systematically destroyed this country financially. our country is heading for a severe recession as a result of his failed policies. in the coming months, the stock market will come crashing down. mark my words.



September 20, 2008
Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings

WASHINGTON — It was a room full of people who rarely hold their tongues. But as the Fed chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, laid out the potentially devastating ramifications of the financial crisis before congressional leaders on Thursday night, there was a stunned silence at first.

Mr. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had made an urgent and unusual evening visit to Capitol Hill, and they were gathered around a conference table in the offices of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

“When you listened to him describe it you gulped," said Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York.

As Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut and chairman of the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, put it Friday morning on the ABC program “Good Morning America,” the congressional leaders were told “that we’re literally maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system, with all the implications here at home and globally.”

Mr. Schumer added, “History was sort of hanging over it, like this was a moment.”

When Mr. Schumer described the meeting as “somber,” Mr. Dodd cut in. “Somber doesn’t begin to justify the words,” he said. “We have never heard language like this.”

“What you heard last evening,” he added, “is one of those rare moments, certainly rare in my experience here, is Democrats and Republicans deciding we need to work together quickly.”

Although Mr. Schumer, Mr. Dodd and other participants declined to repeat precisely what they were told by Mr. Bernanke and Mr. Paulson, they said the two men described the financial system as effectively bound in a knot that was being pulled tighter and tighter by the day.

“You have the credit lines in America, which are the lifeblood of the economy, frozen.” Mr. Schumer said. “That hasn’t happened before. It’s a brave new world. You are in uncharted territory, but the one thing you do know is you can’t leave them frozen or the economy will just head south at a rapid rate.”

As he spoke, Mr. Schumer swooped his hand, to make the gesture of a plummeting bird. “You know we’d be lucky ...” he said as his voice trailed off. “Well, I’ll leave it at that.”

As officials at the Treasury Department raced on Friday to draft legislative language for an ambitious plan for the government to buy billions of dollars of illiquid debt from ailing American financial institutions, legislators on Capitol Hill said they planned to work through the weekend reviewing the proposal and making efforts to bring a package of measures to the floor of the House and Senate by the end of next week.

Lawmakers in both parties described the meeting in Ms. Pelosi’s office on Thursday night with Mr. Paulson and Mr. Bernanke as collaborative, and that they were prepared to put politics aside to address the needs of the American people.

While Democrats initially said after the meeting that they planned to use the administration’s proposal of a huge rescue effort to win support for an economic stimulus package, they pulled back slightly on Friday morning, saying that their top priority was to help put together the bailout package and stabilize the economy.

But it was clear they continued to examine ways to make clear that the government was stepping up not just to help the major financial firms but also to protect the interests of American taxpayers and families by safeguarding their pensions and college savings, and by preventing any further drying up of consumer credit.

In addition to potential stimulus measures, which could include an extension of unemployment benefits and spending on public infrastructure projects, Democrats said they intended to consider measures to help stem home foreclosures and stabilize real estate values.

Among the potential steps Congress can take include approving legislation to allow bankruptcy judges to modify the terms of primary mortgages — authority that the bankruptcy laws do not currently allow and that the banking industry has strenuously opposed.

But the Democrats said it was too soon to discuss such details, and that they were awaiting a draft of the proposal from the Treasury Department.

“We have got to deal with the foreclosure issue,” Mr. Dodd said. “You have got to stop that hemorrhaging..If you don’t, the problem doesn’t go away. Ben Bernanke has said it over and over again. Hank Paulson recognizes it. This problem began with bad lending practices. Those are his words, not mine, and so this plan must address that or I’ll be back here in front of a bank of microphones at some point explaining the next failure.”

Even before the drafting of the plan was complete, the Bush administration and the Fed began efforts to sell the idea of a huge rescue to potentially skeptical rank-and-file members of Congress. Mr. Paulson and Mr. Bernanke held a conference call with House Republicans to explain their thinking.

Senator Richard C. Shelby of Alabama, the senior Republican on the Senate banking committee, said in a television interview that cost to the government of purchasing bad debt could run to $1 trillion — a potential warning sign since Mr. Shelby is a longtime skeptic of government intervention in the private market.

Until Mr. Shelby was interviewed on Friday morning, officials on Capitol Hill had been careful not to discuss specific figures, though the rescue envisioned by the Treasury Department clearly entails a government appropriation of hundreds of billions of dollars.



240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1453 on: September 20, 2008, 07:58:55 AM »
What does the economy look like for the next 6 months?

Where should I put my money?

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1454 on: September 20, 2008, 08:20:19 AM »
What does the economy look like for the next 6 months?

Where should I put my money?

1) 240, the recent Fed. action will undoubtedly help the stock market (short term) but i'm still very cautious about the underlying fundamentals of the US economy. remember, 70% of our nations GDP is consumer spending.....which has virtually stopped. (relatively speaking)

2) for now, i'd play it very conservatively. first and foremost, think safety.



NT

 

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1455 on: September 20, 2008, 08:20:42 AM »


Where should I put my money?

In a 55 gallon drum filled with wood to help start a fire to keep warm.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1456 on: September 20, 2008, 08:55:31 AM »
thanks guys!

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1457 on: September 20, 2008, 12:18:50 PM »
Treasury Seeks Authority to Buy $700 Billon in Assets 



 Sept. 20  The U.S. Treasury today asked Congress for authority to buy as much as $700 billion in soured mortgage-related assets from the nation's financial institutions in the most far-reaching federal intrusion into markets since the Great Depression.

The legislation is aimed at ending a yearlong crisis that toppled four financial giants, forced two into mergers and has brought credit markets to the brink of paralysis. It would give Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson sweeping power to hire managers and award contracts to private companies without review by courts or government agencies.




this nightmare administration can not END fast enough.


NT

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1458 on: September 20, 2008, 12:45:51 PM »
Treasury Seeks Authority to Buy $700 Billon in Assets 



 Sept. 20  The U.S. Treasury today asked Congress for authority to buy as much as $700 billion in soured mortgage-related assets from the nation's financial institutions in the most far-reaching federal intrusion into markets since the Great Depression.

The legislation is aimed at ending a yearlong crisis that toppled four financial giants, forced two into mergers and has brought credit markets to the brink of paralysis. It would give Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson sweeping power to hire managers and award contracts to private companies without review by courts or government agencies.




this nightmare administration can not END fast enough.


NT


Section 8 Of the new bailout draft. (IRONY HERE?)

"Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000."

Well that limit is right at the water mark maximum? Did they goof? Added $700 BILLION exceeds the USC subsection b of section 3101 of title 31!

They should make it at least $13 TRILLION since we'll hit that next year.

Oh wait, that's right... It's in Nancy Pelosi & Charles Schummer NEW $75 BILLION, STIMULUS II Package - in NEW DEBT. I think they raise the National Debt ceiling to $13 TRILLION

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1459 on: September 20, 2008, 12:51:54 PM »
 I wonder what their reply is going to be when the medicare/social security crisis hits?

stormshadow

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1655
  • Getbig!
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1460 on: September 20, 2008, 02:36:23 PM »
Why even have a debt ceiling?  When we approach the limit, we just raise it again.

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1461 on: September 20, 2008, 03:21:43 PM »
Have you dudes seen the rate of return for a 3 month fed note? lol  :-\

Also, this new body to buy up shitty assets should be desolved should we get out of this mess.

stormshadow

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1655
  • Getbig!
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1462 on: September 20, 2008, 04:57:13 PM »
Have you dudes seen the rate of return for a 3 month fed note? lol  :-\

Also, this new body to buy up shitty assets should be desolved should we get out of this mess.

Government never gets smaller without a revolution.

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1463 on: September 20, 2008, 10:27:08 PM »
"While the proposal contains no requirement that the government receive anything from banks in return for unloading their bad assets, it would allow the Treasury Department to designate financial institutions as “agents of the government,” and mandate that they perform any “reasonable duties” that might entail."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26803347

How does that sound to ya?

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1464 on: September 20, 2008, 11:10:33 PM »
Sec. 6. (of purposed Bailout Plan)

Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases.

The Secretary's authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24454
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1465 on: September 21, 2008, 12:14:16 AM »
What does the economy look like for the next 6 months?

Where should I put my money?

How your mattress these days?  Have you been to Delhi yet?  ;D
w

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1466 on: September 21, 2008, 03:37:24 AM »
As the federal government steps to the center of the financial crisis, devising plans to take ownership of hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of bad mortgages, a pair of simple questions rise to the fore: Will this intervention finally be enough to restore order? And what will this grand rescue cost taxpayers?


The Treasury Department, as overseer of the financial system, has in recent weeks unleashed a vast array of initiatives in a bid to stave off catastrophe. It took over the country’s largest mortgage finance companies and put untold billions of taxpayer dollars on the line to prop up other lenders.


Some question the prudence of adding to the nation’s overall debt at a time when the Treasury relies on the largess of foreigners to cover the bills. Even so, there is wide agreement that a broad intervention like the one Treasury is proposing is necessary.


We’re deep into Alice in Wonderland’s rabbit hole,” economist and former vice chairman of the board of governors at the Federal Reserve, Mr. Blinder said.


Many economists say such questions are beside the point. The nation is gripped by the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Before Thursday night, when the Treasury secretary, the Federal Reserve chairman and leaders on Capitol Hill proclaimed their intentions to take over bad debts, the prognosis for the American financial system was sliding from grim toward potentially apocalyptic.


“It looked like we might be falling into the abyss,” Mr. Blinder said.



NT


Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1467 on: September 21, 2008, 10:42:05 AM »
GBers, as many of you may already know, i'm a conservative republican who is completely disgusted by the failed policies of George W Bush and the GOP over the last 8 years. (and unafraid to admit it)

i accurately called the Stock Market implosion nearly a year ago, while many ignored  warning signs and partied as the Dow soared to record levels. (we now know how that ended.) keep in mind, if not for the Feds constant Market manipulation/intervention, the Dow would now be sitting around 7,500.....if not lower. (that's no joke)


so here's my next forward looking prediction:

if John McCain is elected president, i fully expect the US to fall into a Depression that supercedes the one of 1929. IMO the current failed fiscal policies of the Bush administration (which John McCain readily supports) including tax cuts for corporations/wealthy with continued massive deficit war spending, will collapse the US dollar leading to our nations next Great Depression.

so what needs to be done ?  in order for the US to avoid repeating history, we must finally "take our medicine" by raising interest rates, eliminate tax breaks for  corporations/wealthy, quickly reduce deficit spending on unnecessary wars and encourage household saving. these aforementioned steps will slow growth, reduce inflation and increase the dollars value, effectively putting us back on the road to economic recovery. we CANNOT spend our way out of this crisis.

while i'm not a doomsday type of guy, i am a pragmatic realist who analyzes economic information on a daily basis. please understand, our current economic path is 100% UNSUSTAINABLE. without significant changes in policy, the past will unfortunately be repeated.




NT



Alex23

  • Guest
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1468 on: September 21, 2008, 10:44:39 AM »
Why did you get Hugo Shavez to delete all my posts in this thread?

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1469 on: September 21, 2008, 11:00:48 AM »
GBers, as many of you may already know, i'm a conservative republican who is completely disgusted by the failed policies of George W Bush and the GOP over the last 8 years. (and unafraid to admit it)

i accurately called the Stock Market implosion nearly a year ago, while many ignored  warning signs and partied as the Dow soared to record levels. (we now know how that ended.) keep in mind, if not for the Feds constant Market manipulation/intervention, the Dow would now be sitting around 7,500.....if not lower. (that's no joke)


so here's my next forward looking prediction:

if John McCain is elected president, i fully expect the US to fall into a Depression that supercedes the one of 1929. IMO the current failed fiscal policies of the Bush administration (which John McCain readily supports) including tax cuts for corporations/wealthy with continued massive deficit war spending, will collapse the US dollar leading to our nations next Great Depression.

so what needs to be done ?  in order for the US to avoid repeating history, we must finally "take our medicine" by raising interest rates, eliminate tax breaks for  corporations/wealthy, quickly reduce deficit spending on unnecessary wars and encourage household saving. these aforementioned steps will slow growth, reduce inflation and increase the dollars value, effectively putting us back on the road to economic recovery. we CANNOT spend our way out of this crisis.

while i'm not a doomsday type of guy, i am a pragmatic realist who analyzes economic information on a daily basis. please understand, our current economic path is 100% UNSUSTAINABLE. without significant changes in policy, the past will unfortunately be repeated.




NT




Good post. I was wondering though, you don't seem very critical of Obama's spending plans nor his decision to just shift troops from one place to another, that won't save us money either. Do you think he would still be a better choice and could you explain why?

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1470 on: September 21, 2008, 11:01:50 AM »
Why did you get Hugo Shavez to delete all my posts in this thread?

Too put it nicely, it's because you're an idiot.  :)

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1471 on: September 21, 2008, 11:15:29 AM »
Paulson: Foreign banks can use U.S. rescue plan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Sunday that foreign banks will be able to unload bad financial assets under a $700 billion U.S. proposal aimed at restoring order during a devastating financial crisis.

"Yes, and they should. Because ... if a financial institution has business operations in the United States, hires people in the United States, if they are clogged with illiquid assets, they have the same impact on the American people as any other institution," Paulson said on ABC television's "This Week with George Stephanopolous."

Paulson was appearing on the Sunday television talk show circuit to provide details about the U.S. government plan for a sweeping bailout to mop up hundreds of billions of dollars in toxic mortgage debt.

The moves capped a week in which financial markets faced their most serious confluence of crises since the Great Depression in the 1930s and threatened national economies and the worldwide banking system.

Paulson defended the rescue package as painful and costly, but necessary to stabilize a financial system that has all but ground to a halt.

"The situation we had, where the markets are frozen and lending may not be available, is one that won't be good for the American people," he said.

"The fact that the taxpayer is in this position is painful to me."

Paulson acknowledged that an emergency rescue plan aimed at stabilizing a financial system in freefall will cost taxpayers money, but argued that costs will not be as high the $700 billion limit of the package.  Continued...

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN2148303920080921

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1472 on: September 21, 2008, 01:37:27 PM »
Public losses for private gain: The effective nationalisation of huge sectors of the economy means US taxpayers are picking up the tab for failing banks.


Nouriel Roubini
guardian.co.uk
Thursday, September 18, 2008

With the nationalisation of Fannie and Freddie, comrades Bush, Paulson and Bernanke started transforming the US into the USSRA (United Socialist State Republic of America).

This transformation of the US into a country where there is socialism for the rich, the well-connected and Wall Street (ie, where profits are privatised and losses are socialised) continues today with the nationalisation of AIG.

This latest action on AIG follows a variety of many other policy actions that imply a massive – and often flawed – government intervention in the financial markets and the economy: the bail-out of the Bear Stearns creditors; the bail-out of Fannie and Freddie; the use of the Fed balance sheet (hundreds of billions of safe US Treasuries swapped for junk, toxic, illiquid private securities); the use of the other GSEs (the Federal Home Loan Bank system) to provide hundreds of billions of dollars of "liquidity" to distressed, illiquid and insolvent mortgage lenders; the use of the SEC to manipulate the stock market (through restrictions on short sales).

Then there's the use of the US Treasury to manipulate the mortgage market, the creation of a whole host of new bail-out facilities to prop and rescue banks and, for the first time since the Great Depression, to bail out non-bank financial institutions.

This is the biggest and most socialist government intervention in economic affairs since the formation of the Soviet Union and Communist China. So foreign investors are now welcome to the USSRA (the United Socialist State Republic of America) where they can earn fat spreads relative to Treasuries on agency debt and never face any credit risks (not even the subordinated debt-holders who made a fortune yesterday as those claims were also made whole).

Like scores of evangelists and hypocrites and moralists who spew and praise family values and pretend to be holier than thou and are then regularly caught cheating or found to be perverts, these Bush hypocrites who spewed for years the glory of unfettered Wild West laissez-faire jungle capitalism allowed the biggest debt bubble ever to fester without any control, and have caused the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression.

They are are now forced to perform the biggest government intervention and nationalisations in the recent history of humanity, all for the benefit of the rich and the well connected. So Comrades Bush and Paulson and Bernanke will rightly pass to the history books as a troika of Bolsheviks who turned the USA into the USSRA.

Zealots of any religion are always pests that cause havoc with their inflexible fanaticism – but they usually don't run the biggest economy in the world. These laissez faire voodoo-economics zealots in charge of the USA have now caused the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression and the nastiest economic crisis in decades.

This article first appeared on Nouriel Roubini's blog and is edited and cross-posted here with the permission of the author. Nicknamed "Dr Doom", Professor Roubini is now widely acknowledged as having accurately predicted the present crises in financial markets......along with Neurotoxin of GetBig.Com   ;D




NT

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1473 on: September 22, 2008, 04:27:24 AM »
Good post. I was wondering though, you don't seem very critical of Obama's spending plans nor his decision to just shift troops from one place to another, that won't save us money either. Do you think he would still be a better choice and could you explain why?


BD, i was simply pointing out the ramifications of 4 more yrs of Bush/McCain type fiscal policy. think about this, George W Bush in only 8 yrs has increased the US deficit more than ALL 42 previous US presidents COMBINED. Bush has spent like a drunken sailor with absolutely no regard for it's long term implications. (not to mention his disastrous housing and loan policies which created the worst housing crises since the Great Depression.) also, do not forget the bailing out of Wall Street with more tax payer dollars borrowed from China.

BD, although i'm not a big fan of Obama, (i've never voted for a Dem) ending the war in Iraq will save at least 12 BILLION per month of borrowed money from China which is a good start. also, once the Iraq debacle ends, oil supply concerns will diminish, helping to reduce runaway gas prices and systemic inflation. this will enable Americans to once again SAVE. we must also end the Bush/McCain tax breaks for the wealthy and the ExxonMobil's of the world. how do we give wealthy people/corporations BILLIONS in tax breaks when our country is financially broke ?

trust me, Obama is no savior. in fact MY taxes will rise significantly if he's elected. under normal circumstances, that fact ALONE would make me vote against him. but these times are different. imo, the Bush/McCain fiscal INSANITY must end..........now.

we must ALL put country ahead of political affiliation in these historic troubling times.



NT



 

Neurotoxin

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2101
Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1474 on: September 22, 2008, 05:02:21 AM »
 
 
   
WASHINGTON — The Federal Reserve said Sunday it had granted a request by the country's last two major investment banks Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley  to change their status to bank holding companies.

The Fed announced that it had approved the request of the two investment banks. The change in status will allow them to create commercial banks that will be able to take deposits, bolstering the resources of both institutions.

The change continued the biggest restructuring on Wall Street since the Great Depression


NT