Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 467516 times)

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1650 on: October 14, 2008, 05:50:55 PM »

1) My post was in your response to you claiming you could time the market, jackass. I am not one to give investment advice randomly on the internet or even discuss much about what I know in the realm of finance.


you're right, i was completely wrong in claiming a Dow Crash would occur. my timing really sucks.

btw, i have NEVER given investment advice. i give my opinion based on 25 years experience working financial markets.

all too often knowledgeable people (as you claim) sit on the sidelines unwilling to help others as they lose their ass. to me, there's nothing more pathetic.



NT




Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1651 on: October 14, 2008, 06:55:14 PM »
you're right, i was completely wrong in claiming a Dow Crash would occur. my timing really sucks.

btw, i have NEVER given investment advice. i give my opinion based on 25 years experience working financial markets.

all too often knowledgeable people (as you claim) sit on the sidelines unwilling to help others as they lose their ass. to me, there's nothing more pathetic.


NT





 :)

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1652 on: October 15, 2008, 07:56:44 AM »
Worst retail sales in three years


October 15, 2008
Retail sales suffered their biggest drop in three years last month, as American households reined in spending amid a tough job market, the financial crisis and falling home values.

The Commerce Department reported Wednesday that retail sales fell 1.2% in September, nearly double the 0.7% drop expected by economists.

"The numbers are pretty terrible. Consumers were clearly not spending," Hoyt said.

Particularly troubling is the sharp drop in retail sales from the same time a year earlier. The last time that happened was October 2002 and, prior to that, in 1991, he said.

"This report is very clearly consistent with a recession story," Hoyt said, who added that even gasoline retailers could see their sales decline in October.




GBers, i apologise for the pessimistic economic news.


it is....what it is.



NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1653 on: October 15, 2008, 01:13:32 PM »
GBers, again i apologise for more pessimistic news. :'(

i considered posting the same type ra ra shit like Jim Cramer, but realised you guys would lose your money. So i decided that i'd continue TELLING THE FUCKING TRUTH ! whoever doesn't like it.... SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS !



ok, i feel better now.   :D



NT



Oct. 15  Stocks fell sharply on Wednesday, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average sliding 733 points, as evidence a painful recession is already under way overshadowed progress in shoring up the global financial system.

Stock indexes furthered their sharp declines after the release of the Federal Reserve's latest report on the economy, which illustrated a broad slowdown in economic activity already under way by the end of September.
 
"The economy is pretty much showing what we thought all along: that we're slipping into or already in recession," said Sam Stovall, senior investment strategist at Standard & Poor's.

In addition, there are signs "that the global economy is slipping into recession," Stovall said, pointing to another slide in crude oil prices.

astro

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1654 on: October 15, 2008, 01:49:25 PM »
definitely continue to tell it like it is, i as well as alot of other's i'm sure, appeciate it. thanks!

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1655 on: October 15, 2008, 10:03:18 PM »
interesting... what's your opinion on this neuro?

Naked Shorts Frolic While Financial System Fries
October 10th, 2008 by Mark Mitchell
“Morgan Stanley shares have been under extraordinary pressure as of late, for no apparent fundamental reason, as we estimate liquidity, the balance sheet, and long-term earnings, prospects are sound.”

- Fox-Pitt analyst David Trone in a research note, today

Here we go again. A giant bank has some weaknesses, but it is, in all respects, a going concern — except that short sellers are peddling rumors and phantom stock, so the share price is plummeting. With the share price in peril, the rating agencies (perhaps over vigilant after taking so much criticism from short sellers and the media) put the bank’s debt ratings on review for a downgrade.

Meanwhile, short sellers corner the market for the bank’s credit default swaps, and point to the value of the CDS as evidence that the bank is doomed. They feed the media with analyses and bogus indexes that mark the bank’s assets to nothing. They spread the news that the bank’s counterparties and trading partners could bail.

The clients and partners stay with the bank. Up until now they have no reason not to.

But then, there’s more naked short selling, the hedge funds flooding the market with stock they do not possess – phantom stock. Maybe the hedge funds send a fax to CNBC with one last rumor. Over the course of a day or two, the stock price is slashed in half.

Then, suddenly, the stock is in the single digits.

As a result of the low stock price – not as result of the balance sheet – the bank’s partners and clients freak out. This time, they really do pull their money.

End of bank.

And if there are one or two more like this — end of story. The financial system will be fried.

We’ve seen precisely the same scenario with Bear Stearns, Lehman, Merrill Lynch, Washington Mutual, and IndyMac. A variant of this scenario took down AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and perhaps 200 other companies before them.

Morgan Stanley could be gone by next week.

We have new data for September that shows that there was plenty of short selling of Morgan Stanley (and other companies) even during the SEC’s ban on short selling, which ended Wednesday at midnight. Some hedge funds ignored the ban, and the SEC did nothing.

Worse, in place of the ban, the SEC has offered only tepid new rules (cheered by the short seller lobby) that do little to prevent the sale of phantom stock. Under these rules, short sellers do not have to borrow real stock before they sell it. They merely have to “locate” the stock. The SEC doesn’t say how it’s supposed to know whether a short seller has actually located real stock as opposed to telling his broker, “yeah, I located it, it’s in your mother’s wig” (which is pretty much how these conversations go).

Furthermore, the SEC gives hedge funds three days to deliver the stock they sell. This would be fine if they were required to possess real stock before selling. But since they are not, a hedge fund can offload a large block of phantom stock and let it eat away at the financial system for at least three days.

Sometimes, the hedge funds settle the trade with another block of phantom stock, transferred to them by a friendly broker. But even if they fail to deliver the stock, the SEC stipulates no serious penalties. Meanwhile, it shows no inclination to actually prosecute anyone for the jailable crime of short-side market manipulation.

I’m willing to bet anybody a sizeable amount of money that when the SEC releases its “failures to deliver” numbers for October, they will suggest unbridled illegal naked short selling of Morgan Stanley during this past week, even on days when the ban on all short selling was in place. The data will show that naked short selling rose to unprecedented levels just before somebody floated Wednesday’s false rumor that Morgan Stanley was going to lose its $9 billion deal with Mitsubishi.

And the data will show that after the ban was lifted, the law-breaking shorts went nuclear – with failures to deliver of well over a million shares every day. Ultimately, many millions of Morgan Stanley’s shares will be sold and never delivered, just as hedge funds have yet to deliver more than 10 million shares of Bear Stearns that they sold during that bank’s final days last March.

As I write this, Morgan’s stock price is in the single digits, trading around 7 bucks, down an astounding 70% in the 36 hours since the short selling ban was lifted. A death spiral like that does not happen naturally. Because of the short-battered stock price – and only the stock price (again, this has nothing to do with the balance sheet) — Moody’s today put Morgan’s long-term debt ratings on review for a downgrade.

I suspect another 15% off the stock price, and one more well-placed rumor, will do the trick. There will be a run on the bank. Morgan will be gone. And the global financial fire will blaze still hotter.

It is beyond surreal that our most prestigious financial media continue to allow this to happen. It is beyond comprehension that journalists – in possession of the evidence, and presumably in possession of their faculties – continue to spout the line, originally formulated by short-sellers and now woven into conventional wisdom – that this crisis is only about bad mortgages and bad managers and bad balance sheets.

One can argue that, in the long run, the world is better off without half of Wall Street – without its ponzi schemes and paper profits, the sickening salaries and arrogance. Certainly, anyone with a Shakespearean state of mind will appreciate the fates of Morgan Stanley, Lehman, and Bear – all of which eagerly pimped their dodgy prime brokerage services to the very short sellers who destroyed them.

But it does not require Shakespearean nuance to see that this crisis is not just about scandalous banks. It is about criminals destroying banks that are tawdry, yes, but possessing of some virtue, and capable, if left unmolested, of carrying on and contributing to society – perhaps even staving off a global calamity.

Moreover, these same criminals are destroying many other companies, most of which are run by honest people who labor far from the insalubrious alleyways of southern Manhattan. The SEC maintains a list of companies whose stock has failed to deliver in excessive quantities. As I explained in an earlier dispatch, many victims of naked short selling (including some of the big banks) do not appear on that list. But surely it is a scandal that more than 300 companies, many of them financial firms that have nothing to do with Wall Street, do appear on the list.

Surely, it is an even bigger scandal that around 100 of those companies have appeared on the list chronically, day after day, for months on end, and though the sheriff posts the names of these rape victims on its wall, it has yet to prosecute a single rapist. The SEC tells us that a billion shares remain undelivered on any given day — and yet it doesn’t bother to find out which hedge funds sold the phantom stock.

It might be too late, but if Washington and the financial media really want to save the world, they ought to start by demanding that hedge funds borrow real stock before they sell it. And what the heck: Maybe some newspaper could offer the radical suggestion that the SEC should tell hedge funds that they can either go to jail or close out all unsettled trades – today.

If one hedge fund manager were to get cuffed, all the others with outstanding “failures to deliver” might scramble to buy real stock so they can settle. The markets might soar. The innocent victims might get some relief. And the delinquents on Wall Street would get some time to clean up their acts.

Meanwhile, would anyone care to guess which company the naked short sellers will take down after Morgan Stanley?

And would anyone like to share a bunker with canned goods and weapons?


* * * * * * * *
http://www.deepcapture.com/naked-shorts-frolic-while-financial-system-fries/

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1656 on: October 16, 2008, 08:28:59 AM »
interesting... what's your opinion on this neuro?

Naked Shorts Frolic While Financial System FriesOctober 10th, 2008 by Mark Mitchell
“Morgan Stanley shares have been under extraordinary pressure as of late, for no apparent fundamental reason, as we estimate liquidity, the balance sheet, and long-term earnings, prospects are sound.”

- Fox-Pitt analyst David Trone in a research note, today




HC, when the market rallied from 2003 thru 2007 did you ever hear the term "naked short selling" ?

75 BILLION dollars exited Mutual Funds in Sept. 2008 alone. is anyone talking about that ?

IMO, a scapegoat is needed as to why markets are melting down.



NT

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1657 on: October 16, 2008, 08:31:28 AM »

HC, when the market rallied from 2003 thru 2007 did you ever hear the term "naked short selling" ?

75 BILLION dollars exited Mutual Funds in Sept. 2008 alone. is anyone talking about that ?

IMO, a scapegoat is needed as to why markets are melting down.



NT
thanks

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1658 on: October 16, 2008, 08:57:04 AM »
Citi, Merrill see bigger losses on write-downs

Oct. 16  Investors sold banking stocks again after Citigroup Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co. reported more quarterly losses Thursday, one day after the financial sector saw a double-digit percentage decline on growing economic fears.


and.......


U.S. Industrial Production Fell 2.8%, Most Since 1974 


Oct. 16  Industrial production in the U.S. fell in September by the most in almost 34 years as hurricanes and an aircraft strike combined with the credit crunch to weaken manufacturing.

The 2.8 percent decrease in production at factories, mines and utilities exceeded forecasts and followed a revised 1 percent decrease in August, the Federal Reserve said today.



GBers, i suspect the above economic data is having the biggest effect on selling pressure.



NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1659 on: October 16, 2008, 02:17:26 PM »
GBers, this is as schizophrenic a market as you'll ever see.  :o

professional traders market only.


NT



U.S. stocks soar after early slide on data

Oct. 16, ) -- U.S. stocks shot dramatically higher in a late-session bounce back from the prior day's rout, with energy shares pacing the climb after the price of crude dropped below $70 a barrel for the first time in more than a year.


After trading in a 815-point range, the Dow Jones Industrial Average powered higher in the final hour, rising 401 points, or 4.7%, to end at 8.979.26, a far cry from intraday lows that had the blue-chip benchmark down more nearly 400 points.

 
"We've got options expiration for October tomorrow and we've seen that volatility impact everything today from stocks to gold and oil," said Paul Mendelsohn, director of investments at Hinsdale Associates.


"It's really a market without conviction. Anyone selling in this market has a roughly half-hour time horizon, and anyone buying has to have at least a one-year horizon. That is why we have such volatility -- the Wall Street fat cats are selling and retail is just sitting there watching," said Jack Ablin, chief Investment officer, Harris Private Bank.

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1660 on: October 17, 2008, 06:22:30 AM »
GBers, if the market fails to hold Dow 7,880......all hell will break loose to the downside.

please be careful.



NT

Mark Kerr

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1661 on: October 17, 2008, 06:30:54 AM »
GBers, if the market fails to hold Dow 7,880......all hell will break loose to the downside.

please be careful.



NT

What will happen?

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1662 on: October 17, 2008, 06:36:58 AM »
Housing starts hit another 17-year low



Oct 17  Initial construction of U.S. homes fell to a fresh 17-year low in September, according to a government report released Friday.

Housing starts have fallen nearly two-thirds from their peak of 2.3 million in January 2006, and were at the lowest annual pace since January 1991.


NT


Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1663 on: October 17, 2008, 06:41:34 AM »
What will happen?


if institutional support of 7,800 is breached, we'll head much lower.



NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1664 on: October 17, 2008, 06:50:54 AM »
my colleagues and i believe if Dow 7,800 is held and Obama wins the election, the market will begin to turn in a positive direction.

let's hope so.


NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1665 on: October 18, 2008, 07:25:22 AM »
GBers, with only sparse economic data due for release next week, Market movement to the upside should be anticipated imo.

 

NT



U.S. stock indexes pivot lower in volatile trade

U.S. stocks erased late-Friday gains as profit-takers stepped in ahead of the close, with the major indexes ending with daily losses but up on the week, capping a volatile streak involving wild swings in either direction amid signs of a possible thaw in the credit markets.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 127.04 points, or 1.4%, to end at 8,852.22, giving the blue-chip index a weekly gain of 4.75%, and marking its first up week in five.

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1666 on: October 20, 2008, 10:48:29 AM »
GBers, with only sparse economic data due for release next week, Market movement to the upside should be anticipated imo.

 

NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1667 on: October 20, 2008, 01:11:36 PM »
Oct. 20,  U.S. stocks extended their gains on Monday afternoon, with energy shares paving the climb higher after Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke backed more fiscal stimulus and investors digested earnings reports from various sectors.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose +411.46 points (+4.65%)



NT

loco

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1668 on: October 20, 2008, 02:28:42 PM »
Buffett: I'm buying stocks

October 17, 2008

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Billionaire investor Warren Buffett used a guest commentary article in the New York Times on Friday to announce that he's sticking with stocks.

Buffett, the so-called Oracle of Omaha for his ability to buy up the right companies at the right time for his holding company Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A), said the worst may not be over for the faltering economy.

"In the near term, unemployment will rise, business activity will falter and headlines will continue to be scary," Buffett wrote.

But for that reason, the Berkshire CEO said, he has converted his personal portfolio almost entirely to U.S. stocks. Previously, he said he owned nothing but Treasury bonds.

Buffett said the fear surrounding the disastrous credit crisis, which has dropped stocks about 36% from their all-time highs set around this time last year, has left equities with attractive purchasing prices.

"A simple rule dictates my buying: Be fearful when others are greedy, and be greedy when others are fearful," said Buffett. "And most certainly, fear is now widespread, gripping even seasoned investors."

Stock prices have been volatile, to say the least. Consider what happened this week alone: The Dow Jones gained 976 points on Monday; fell 76 points on Tuesday; dropped 733 points on Wednesday and then gained 401 points Thursday. But Buffett says the future is much brighter for stocks.

"Fears regarding the long-term prosperity of the nation's many sound companies make no sense," wrote Buffett. "Most major companies will be setting new profit records 5, 10 and 20 years from now."

Still, many nervous investors have been ditching the up-and-down stock market and pouring their funds into physical assets like gold or cash equivalents. Though they may feel safe now, Buffett said those investors are holding "terrible long-term assets" that will not come close to matching the future gains of stocks.

"The hapless ones bought stocks only when they felt comfort in doing so and then proceeded to sell when the headlines made them queasy," Buffett added.

So if strong companies are destined for long-term success, bad news is good news when you're looking to invest in the stock market.

"Bad news is an investor's best friend," Buffett said. "It lets you buy a slice of America's future at a marked-down price."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/17/news/economy/buffett_op_ed/?postversion=2008101708



Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1669 on: October 22, 2008, 05:20:04 AM »
GBers, institutional Market support resides @ Dow 7,800.00. a disappointment in corp. earnings could force a retest at those levels.



NT 



D-bol

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1670 on: October 22, 2008, 07:05:46 AM »
Hey Neuro, where do u think the bottom is? 7800? lower?
I mean, considering fundamentals.... cuz I think that current sell off is shedding more of a speculative value accumulated over 8-10 years of "irrational exuberance"

Mark Kerr

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1671 on: October 22, 2008, 07:06:39 AM »
Neuro,

Paulson said last night that there is a lot of tension between the US and China right now. China also said after this financial crises is over, the world should start working on one world currency. What will happen if China decides to stop loaning us money?
 
 

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1672 on: October 22, 2008, 07:40:19 AM »
Neuro,

Paulson said last night that there is a lot of tension between the US and China right now. China also said after this financial crises is over, the world should start working on one world currency. What will happen if China decides to stop loaning us money?
 
 


They already started doing this from what I understand, at least they are discouraging from anyone else lending to the States.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1673 on: October 22, 2008, 08:09:52 AM »
The Fed said it would provide up to $540 billion in financing though a program run by JPMorgan Chase & Co. to purchase from mutual funds certificates of deposit, bank notes and commercial paper. The program, to be called the Money Market Investor Funding Facility, is designed to revive the market for commercial paper, short-term loans that are critical for keeping businesses running.

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1674 on: October 22, 2008, 08:12:45 AM »
Neuro,

Paulson said last night that there is a lot of tension between the US and China right now. China also said after this financial crises is over, the world should start working on one world currency. What will happen if China decides to stop loaning us money?
 
 


US would halt ALL imports from China and collapse their economy.



NT