Dorian -three weeks out: 1993

[Palpatine Q]

The most Muscular is known as the pose that hides weakness' for a reason...

That's a new one 

Oh wait...now i remember every time A bber hits the pose the announcer says "you know, this pose really hides a BBer's weaknesses...."  NOT!!!!!!!

Where do you guys come up with this shit, the MM is one of the MAJOR poses. I don't ever recall a thread about who has the best side chest pose.

[delta9mda]

whos said yates left lat didnt come out at the 91 mr o (that i was at)?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Hey ND,

This is cool because I seriously want to know how exactly
Dorian is more dense than Ronnie. I mentioned in two different
threads for someone to explain the definition of grainy and I didn't
get one response. I don't really care about battling about who's better
or not but I do want you to give me a definition of density and explain
why Dorian is denser than Ronnie. 

Density - Muscle hardness, which is also related to muscu-lar definition. A bodybuilder can be well-defined and still have excess fat within each major muscle complex. But when he has muscle density, even this intramuscular fat has been eliminated. A combination of muscle mass and muscle density is highly prized among all competitive bodybuilders.

There you go and its pretty self explanatory why Dorian is more dense because he'c carry less intramuscular fat in his muscles especially compared to Ronnie 2003 there is just a handful of times Ronnie was referred as bone dry & rock hard and that was in 1998 and 2001 ASC other than that the heavier Ronnie became the more his conditioning suffered hence 1999 despite what you and Hulkster claim , 2000 huge and soft , etc , etc

[suckmymuscle]

If yates balance & proportions were so good and his "complete" look as you nuthuggers say, then yates would look great in the mm. Since yates looks bad in the mm, maybe he is the one lacking the substance and not the mandatory pose. It's funny they are blaming the mandatory pose and not the bodybuilder himself, LOL.

  Ronnie does have a better crab shot than Dorian by a slim margin, but thsi doesen't matter for two reasons:

  - The most muscular was not a mandatory during Dorian's time, and...

  - Dorian defeats Ronnie in two of the three angles of the relaxed round as well as four of the seven mandatories(front lat spread, abs-and-thighs, side triceps and rear lat spread)

  Now, I know that you'll bitch about giving Dorian the rear lat spread, but it does go to Dorian for a simple reason: their lats spread as wide, but Ronnie is missing calves and has huge glutes in this shot, meaning that Dorian wins the pose from a symmetry standpoint.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

 

[suckmymuscle]

  Hulkster is the absolute king of subjectivity, of the intangible and theoretical. Repeat after me:

  "Shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail, shape and detail..."

SUCKMYMUSCLE

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND likes to go on about how coleman lost density and detail from 98 to 99, but cannot produce a single shread of visual evidence to substantiate this claim.

in fact, the visual evidence shows Ronnie being HARDER and DRYER in 99 than in 98:

and there are lots of quotes to corroberate the visual evidence.

peter McGough disagreed, but clearly is incorrect. Other eyewitnesses (like Lonnie Teper from ironman and ronnie himself at the 99 contest) have stated that ronnie was in better shape in 99 than in 98.

not the opposite as ND loves to claim without evidence:

99 vs 98.
sorry, but Helen Keller can see that Ronnie was in better shape in 99 than in 98: hell, look at the quads alone.

ND likes to go on about how coleman lost density and detail from 98 to 99, but cannot produce a single shread of visual evidence to substantiate this claim.

in fact, the visual evidence shows Ronnie being HARDER and DRYER in 99 than in 98:

and there are lots of quotes to corroberate the visual evidence.

You're a liar thats old new but I did produce ' evidence ' of the difference between the two you just didn't like it  and get this I backed up my claim with not one but two substantiating quotes have you done that? NO can you do that? NO and you're basing your opinion on faulty means because pictures can lie

peter McGough disagreed, but clearly is incorrect. Other eyewitnesses (like Lonnie Teper from ironman and ronnie himself at the 99 contest) have stated that ronnie was in better shape in 99 than in 98.

not the opposite as ND loves to claim without evidence:

99 vs 98.
sorry, but Helen Keller can see that Ronnie was in better shape in 99 than in 98: hell, look at the quads alone.

Typical Hulkster ignorant arrogant claim of knowing more than not one but two eyewitnesses including the MAN IN QUESTION lol when he's obviously wrong what does he resort to? telling the people who were actually there they're wrong thats the height of stupidity , eyewitnesses are wrong and he's right sitting at home on his p.c. he figured it all out 

Ronnie Coleman himself said his best Olympia was his first because and I quote " my conditioning was spot-on " meaning his conditioning in 1999 was NOT ' spot-on ' meaning you're wrong and only you would be so stupid to tell Ronnie he's wrong and Peter McGough as well but then again you're infamously stupid just look at the truce thread

Answer me this Hulkster why is it when asked what was the best physique he ever seen McGough refers to ( Dorian 1993  ) and Ronnie 2001 Arnold Classic , why would he do that? especially seeing if Hulkster is right and he's just as bone dry & rock hard as he was in 1998/2001 ? wouldn't McGough then say 1999 , because he's just as conditioned in 1998/2001 and a full 10 pounds heavier because after all more size and the same conditioning is the high water mark of bodybuilding , I'll tell you because he wasn't as bone dry ( and pay attention mr ignorant ) AND rock hard as he was in 1998 period. he said it , McGough said it and you're a fucking idiot to argue two eyewitnesses wrong based on a faulty means to begin with .



review of mr. olympia 1999, january 2000, page  90:

257 pounds, a good seven pounds heavier than last year and the clear winner, ALTHOUGH NOT AS BONE DRY OR AS ROCK HARD IN 98.  In comparison to 98, his thighs are enourmous with a greater sweep and his front delts have improved; plus the pec anomaly (gyno) is no longer present.

Impressive split biceps.  An awesome back double biceps on which muscle fights with muscle to hang onto his frame.  A big, big lat spead promted Dorian "backman" yates to comment, "ronnie looks like a cartoon character".  when doing back poses, ronnie would hitch up his trunks to expose ripped glutes.

No where does it claim his quads are more ripped than 1998 this is another one of your bull shit claims , it shows right there that not the obvious his quads are bigger than 1998 with greater sweep NO WHERE does it say they're more defined , or more ripped you're a LIAR you keep making these claims and have been proven wrong , lets see when proven wrong Hulkster makes up quotes , lies , uses photoshopped pics and tells eyewitnesses including Ronnie himself he's wrong on what year was his best lol you have to do all these things because you can't counter my argument .

[NarcissisticDeity]

If yates balance & proportions were so good and his "complete" look as you nuthuggers say, then yates would look great in the mm. Since yates looks bad in the mm, maybe he is the one lacking the substance and not the mandatory pose. It's funny they are blaming the mandatory pose and not the bodybuilder himself, LOL.

I mean how fucking stupid can you be? he looks bad in the mm says who ? you ? you're biased you look for what you like in the most muscular and thats it and great balance & proportion can be seen from every angle in every pose NOT just one shot WOW Ronnie's got great biceps/triceps and delt-pec tie-ins is the most muscular that means his whole pose is better despite lacking in density and balance & proportion , despite being incomplete , there is more to a most muscular pose than what you like follow the criteria , of thats right you don't know it.

[davidpaul]

yates must have the best calves ever,

[Iceman1981]

whos said yates left lat didnt come out at the 91 mr o (that i was at)?

Peter McGough said it. Are you doubting him now? Not to mention a member named Forcedrep on these boards pointed it out as well earlier this year and backed it up with a pic.

[NarcissisticDeity]

oh but it does. Show anyone this comparison and ask them who looks more conditioned.

How about you also let people know the general consensus is that Dorian looks ' light years ' ahead of what he does in pics & video , and then school them on what great conditioning consists of ( oh wait you can't do that because you don't know  )  and then show them better pictures of Yates , your comparisons are pathetic period and biased there is more to conditioning than what you know and more to a pose than just having better delt-pec tie-ins and better biceps

[Farkenell]

Peter McGough said it. Are you doubting him now? Not to mention a member named Forcedrep on these boards pointed it out as well earlier this year and backed it up with a pic.

Left lat didnt come out?

Ive never seen the 1991 video, but whats stopping someone posting that "left lat segment" onto youtube for everyone to see.

[NeoSeminole]

How about you also let people know the general consensus is that Dorian looks ' light years ' ahead of what he does in pics & video , and then school them on what great conditioning consists of ( oh wait you can't do that because you don't know and then show them better pictures of Yates , your comparisons are pathetic period and biased there is more to conditioning than what you know and more to a pose than just having better delt-pec tie-ins and better biceps

wah wah, stop whining. The general consensus is that every bodybuilder looks better in person than in pics. People who were at this years Olympia said all the competitors looked in better condition than in the online pics. So this isn't some exclusive property only shared by Dorian. Furthermore, a person shouldn't have to be educated on conditioning to see who looks more defined in a comparison. Either you're conditioned or you're not. It doesn't magically change once you become more knowledgable.

[NeoSeminole]

Ronnie displaying his superior conditioning.

[Hulkster]

That's a new one 

Oh wait...now i remember every time A bber hits the pose the announcer says "you know, this pose really hides a BBer's weaknesses...."  NOT!!!!!!!

Where do you guys come up with this shit, the MM is one of the MAJOR poses. I don't ever recall a thread about who has the best side chest pose.

exactly.

they come up with this shit because dorian even at his best was far below the level set by 99 Ronnie and they (and everyone else) knows it.

its all they can do..

[NarcissisticDeity]

huh? The pic I posted of Munzer was to show what separations and striations look like, and the DVD screen cap of 99 Ronnie was in reference to your comment about his calves. So I don't know what the f*ck you're complaining about.

I don't give a shit about 92. According to you and just about every other Dorian guy, 93 and 95 were his best years. So I only used shots from both years to be fair. I posted a photoshoot pic and 2 contest pics where he's "oiled up and under stage lighting" as you put it, which supposedly makes you look better. Don't b*tch and moan just b/c your boy's quads look bad.

hamstrings are not even close between Ronnie and Dorian. Ronnie wins by a landslide. Show me pics where Dorian's hamstrings look as big and defined from every angle.


it's also Peter McGough's opinion that Dorian was harder.

of all the people he could have mentioned, he chose 01 ASC Ronnie. I wonder why...

I don't give a shit about 92. According to you and just about every other Dorian guy, 93 and 95 were his best years. So I only used shots from both years to be fair. I posted a photoshoot pic and 2 contest pics where he's "oiled up and under stage lighting" as you put it, which supposedly makes you look better. Don't b*tch and moan just b/c your boy's quads look bad.

Of course you don't care about 1992 because that pic alone proves my point about how great the separation in his quads were and him at 269 pounds is his best so I'll use that and the same applies the only real advantage Ronnie has in quad separation is in the rectus femoris and see the pics despite all your claims his quads don't look bad

hamstrings are not even close between Ronnie and Dorian. Ronnie wins by a landslide. Show me pics where Dorian's hamstrings look as big and defined from every angle.

again you make empty claims and use shit pictures on purpose you look at Dorian's hams and how clearly defined they are and how separated the leg biceps are from the other muscles and you're missing the point Dorian's hams don't have to look as big and well defined as Ronnie's all they have to do is look great and in proportion to Dorian quads which is my whole point of Yates legs being more balanced than Ronnies including the hams and in that pic you posted of Ronnie in the side chest it shows how Ronnie's hams are dwarfed by his quads in profile 95% quads and 5 % hams

it's also Peter McGough's opinion that Dorian was harder.

At the end of the day its just an opinion however unlike who's the best ever conditioning isn't subjective 

of all the people he could have mentioned, he chose 01 ASC Ronnie. I wonder why...

That doesn't change the fact it was posed as a QUESTION and even if it was a declaration of some sorts its still just and opinion and a subjective one at that .

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ronnie displaying his superior conditioning.

I love how you've been reduced to just blanket statements lol it's so Hulkster-esque no what Ronnie is displaying is better delt-pec tie-ins and biceps separation and again one pose isn't an entire contest and keep in mind the following 

Mr Gethin GetBig Steptember 10 , 2007

Beat Ronnie fare and square on the european tour...Huh? Were you there? Did you know anyone who was there, or are you speculating via pics? I'm a contest photog and can tell you that pics dont always give a true depiction.

Peter Mcgough

  "These words should not be taken lightly, because no bodybuilder has ever been as hard and dry as the man who won six Sandows."


Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates

" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.

MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia


" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .

Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.

This is a quote from John Hotten book " Muscle "

" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own.  Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.

Bob Chick GetBig Jan 15 , 2007

The judges made their decision based on what they saw live and in person. Pictures mean nothing as they can be deceiving...

Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).



Neo don't comment on who has superior conditioning you look really fucking stupid when you do knowing th above , but then again you don't mind looking stupid. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

wah wah, stop whining. The general consensus is that every bodybuilder looks better in person than in pics. People who were at this years Olympia said all the competitors looked in better condition than in the online pics. So this isn't some exclusive property only shared by Dorian. Furthermore, a person shouldn't have to be educated on conditioning to see who looks more defined in a comparison. Either you're conditioned or you're not. It doesn't magically change once you become more knowledgable.

No it can't be true  Neo & Hulkster the boy wonder figured it all out , again I've seen the quote ( and posted it ) numerous times attributed to Dorian specifically on how he translates from reality to film and video this crushed your ignorant statements that Ronnie has better conditioning , you don't even know what conditioning is , you're the idiot who claimed Dorian's grainy conditioning was the result of poor skin 

[NarcissisticDeity]

even Haney and yates can't hang with peak Ronnie in the back department:

Typical Hulkster move lol post a pic of Dorian at 239 pounds and claim " Wow no one can hang with Ronnie "


 

Dorian crushes Ronnie any year Ronnie especially the ' soft ' Ronnie from 1999 this is muscle hardness and dryness that Ronnie could only match when he was very small

[Hulkster]

LOL soft 99 my white ass.

everyone is wondering where you guys come up with this shit?

 

because it sure isn't with your eyes..

[Hulkster]

LOL as usual, ronnie at his best OWNING dorian in terms of conditioning..

[NarcissisticDeity]

LOL soft 99 my white ass.

everyone is wondering where you guys come up with this shit?

 

because it sure isn't with your eyes..

Ronnie told me  his conditioning wasn't spot on in 1999n , in 1998 it was  Ronnie owns you.

[NarcissisticDeity]

LOL as usual, ronnie at his best OWNING dorian in terms of conditioning..

Hulkster's been reduced to blowing up pics to alter the quality even further lol first lying about quotes and then using photoshopped pics of Ronnie , now using altered pics to ruin the quality lol you're so desperate and I enjoy watching you slip further & further 

untanned , no posing oil and no contest lighting in the poorest quality video and Ronnie just gets blown away , 269 pounds complete dense & dry muscle from head to toe no flaws what so ever and you have Ronnie 257 pounds lacking in that rock hard condition he had the previous year a bunch of mix and matched parts , pathetic balance & proportion , injected calves lol

Dorian kills little ' soft ' Ronnie

[delta9mda]

Peter McGough said it. Are you doubting him now? Not to mention a member named Forcedrep on these boards pointed it out as well earlier this year and backed it up with a pic.

im not doubting anyone. i was there, i posted a pic. the pic shows his left lat out there.

[NeoSeminole]

Of course you don't care about 1992 because that pic alone proves my point about how great the separation in his quads were and him at 269 pounds is his best so I'll use that and the same applies the only real advantage Ronnie has in quad separation is in the rectus femoris and see the pics despite all your claims his quads don't look bad

you can't use a pic from 92 to show Dorian's leg detail and then post a pic from 95 to show his size. That would be like me using Ronnie's famous ab-and-thigh shot from 96 to show his trim, detailed midsection and striated quads, and then use a pic from 03 to show his size. It doesn't work that way. Pick a year and stick with it. Here are more pics of Dorian's quads from 95.

again you make empty claims and use shit pictures on purpose you look at Dorian's hams and how clearly defined they are and how separated the leg biceps are from the other muscles and you're missing the point Dorian's hams don't have to look as big and well defined as Ronnie's all they have to do is look great and in proportion to Dorian quads which is my whole point of Yates legs being more balanced than Ronnies including the hams and in that pic you posted of Ronnie in the side chest it shows how Ronnie's hams are dwarfed by his quads in profile 95% quads and 5 % hams

stop lying. I didn't use shit pics of Dorian's hamstrings. You're just mad b/c you realize you're fighting a losing battle. If I really did use such a bad pic, then why don't you post some of your better shots? I'm sure you have them (note: it has to be from 95). If you use another year, then I will only compare pics from whatever year you use for Dorian.

At the end of the day its just an opinion however unlike who's the best ever conditioning isn't subjective

conditioning is subjective if we follow your criteria. Did you touch Ronnie's and Dorian's muscles to see who's harder? No. Did Peter McGough? No. Ask any medical professional how to determine one's conditioning based purely on visual observation, and they will tell you separations and striations.

That doesn't change the fact it was posed as a QUESTION and even if it was a declaration of some sorts its still just and opinion and a subjective one at that.

see above.

[NeoSeminole]

I love how you've been reduced to just blanket statements

ha ha ha ha, what the f*ck? I supported my comment with visual evidence. I can also post quotes like you did.

Peter McGough – Flex Magazine, August 2005

"Personally, the best physique I ever saw onstage was Ronnie's at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic. He was cut, full, trim in the waist and a monster (proving that when you're supersharp, you look superbig) at 247 pounds. Ronnie sporting that look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable."

Jim Stoppani – Flex Magazine, July 2005

"Has anyone ever displayed a more muscular, more shredded, higher-quality physique than a 247-pound Ronnie Coleman at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic?"

Team Flex – Flexonline.com, November 2004

“For whatever faults he may possess, Ronnie Coleman is quite possibly the most impressive physical specimen walking the earth today. Pictures do not do him justice. When he stands relaxed muscle literally hangs from his frame, as if his skin can no longer support the pendulous masses of flesh he has forged with untold tons of iron and steel. It’s difficult to imagine anyone surpassing Big Ron’s level of mass in this, or any, lifetime.”

Ronnie Coleman Fan Site

“When Mr. Coleman showed up at the New York event in October, Mr. McGough says he immediately noticed the difference. “He was really much harder,” he says. “He retained his size, but he had the density and granite hardness."

Sean Toh – http://creditplushealth.org/sport%20celebrities/Ronnie%20Coleman.htm

“At the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic, Ronnie won the show and his performance at the time was hailed by many to be his best ever showing. He was 245 pounds at the contest, in extremely tight form, and dense as stone.”

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."