Huckabee: Abortion not states' call

[loco]

Doesn't matter if the law changes.

Abortion will still happen.

but what will change is the fall out from abortion being illegal.

-  Health issues from Illegal abortions
-  Criminal and Court cost from illegal abortions will cost tax payers more
-  Foster care and welfare costs will rise

Yeah, so let's murder unborn babies for the health of the economy.  That's more important.  Our society just keeps getting better and better.   

[Deicide]

Yeah, so let's murder unborn babies for the health of the economy.  That's more important.  Our society just keeps getting better and better.   

And let's contribute to the greatest problem the world faces: Overpopulation. Of course to you who believes that the world will be consumed in glorious fire as your imaginary godmand slays all non-Christians, that doesn't matter much...

[OzmO]

Yeah, so let's murder unborn babies for the health of the economy.  That's more important.  Our society just keeps getting better and better.   

Once again fails to see the bigger picture.

Babies will be murdered regardless of the law. 

We have to raise the moral standard of our society, similar to the same moral standard that causes us not to kill the innocent children of terrorist becuase we fear they will grow up and take revenge.

[Deicide]

Once again fails to see the bigger picture.

Babies will be murdered regardless of the law. 

We have to raise the moral standard of our society, similar to the same moral standard that causes us not to kill the innocent children of terrorist becuase we fear they will grow up and take revenge.

Talking to a bible thumper like this is a waste of time. He sees everything through the lense of his 'holy book of holes'...no room for discussion there...

[loco]

And let's contribute to the greatest problem the world faces: Overpopulation. Of course to you who believes that the world will be consumed in glorious fire as your imaginary godmand slays all non-Christians, that doesn't matter much...

Oh, that's a new one.  So now the problem is overpopulation?  So now abortion is population control?  Why don't you also throw in there the elder and the crippled.   

[loco]

Once again fails to see the bigger picture.

Babies will be murdered regardless of the law. 

We have to raise the moral standard of our society, similar to the same moral standard that causes us not to kill the innocent children of terrorist becuase we fear they will grow up and take revenge.

No.  You said it's for the health of the economy.  Now you are changing your story again,  flip flopper.

Doesn't matter if the law changes.

Abortion will still happen.

but what will change is the fall out from abortion being illegal.

-  Health issues from Illegal abortions
-  Criminal and Court cost from illegal abortions will cost tax payers more
-  Foster care and welfare costs will rise

[Cap]

Oh, that's a new one.  So now the problem is overpopulation?  So now abortion is population control?  Why don't you also throw in there the elder and the crippled.   

Seriously, I mean then we wouldn't have to pay them Social Security.  Even if you make a case for overpopulation, it still doesn't make the act any different than a contract murder.  A woman's control over her body should end when it comes to killing the LIFE inside her.

[Deicide]

Seriously, I mean then we wouldn't have to pay them Social Security.  Even if you make a case for overpopulation, it still doesn't make the act any different than a contract murder.  A woman's control over her body should end when it comes to killing the LIFE inside her.

There's no money in Social Security anymore.

I happen to disagree with you. There are emergency situations where it comes down to the fetus or the woman and it should be obvious that the woman's life should be prioritised. And since you are so keen on controlling womens' lives, if she is raped and forced by fundy nutcases like to give birth, you should have a legal obligation to raise the kid as well..

[loco]

There's no money in Social Security anymore.

I happen to disagree with you. There are emergency situations where it comes down to the fetus or the woman and it should be obvious that the woman's life should be prioritised. And since you are so keen on controlling womens' lives, if she is raped and forced by fundy nutcases like to give birth, you should have a legal obligation to raise the kid as well..

You did not say anything about emergency situations and you did not say anything about rape above.  You said population control.  So don't change your story now and address the two posts above.

[Cap]

There's no money in Social Security anymore.

I happen to disagree with you. There are emergency situations where it comes down to the fetus or the woman and it should be obvious that the woman's life should be prioritised. And since you are so keen on controlling womens' lives, if she is raped and forced by fundy nutcases like to give birth, you should have a legal obligation to raise the kid as well..

Here we go with the rape scenario again.  Even if that 1% of cases happens, give it up for adoption.

[OzmO]

No.  You said it's for the health of the economy.  Now you are changing your story again,  flip flopper.

I answered it exactly:

Babies will be murdered regardless of the law. 

is the same as:

Doesn't matter if the law changes.

Abortion will still happen.

this right here is a list of things that will happen if abortion is illegal:

but what will change is the fall out from abortion being illegal.

-  Health issues from Illegal abortions
-  Criminal and Court cost from illegal abortions will cost tax payers more
-  Foster care and welfare costs will rise

this is my solution:

We have to raise the moral standard of our society, similar to the same moral standard that causes us not to kill the innocent children of terrorist becuase we fear they will grow up and take revenge.

Keep trying loco.

Maybe you'll find something eventually   

[Dos Equis]

What difference does it make if abortions will still be performed if it is outlawed?  There isn't a crime in this country that has been outlawed that isn't still being committed somewhere.  That shouldn't even be part of the analysis IMO.   

[OzmO]

What difference does it make if abortions will still be performed if it is outlawed?  There isn't a crime in this country that has been outlawed that isn't still being committed somewhere.  That shouldn't even be part of the analysis IMO.   

Outlawing abortions will not stop abortions in this country.

However, outlawing abortions in this country will create more problems.

Stopping abortions starts with the person not the law.


PS:   go Warriors!

[Straw Man]

Outlawing abortions will not stop abortions in this country.

However, outlawing abortions in this country will create more problems.

Stopping abortions starts with the person not the law.

you're being way too rational

[Cap]

Outlawing abortions will not stop abortions in this country.

However, outlawing abortions in this country will create more problems.

Stopping abortions starts with the person not the law.


PS:   go Warriors!

The moral tone of the country and women particular shows this will not be changing any time soon.  The biggest problem in this country would be foster children/costs but that could be alleviated in a few different ways.  1.) kick all the illegals out to free up $, 2.) allow for easier adoptions so parents don't have to go to Vietnam to get a child, 3.) mass distribute contraception in the poor neighborhoods.

[OzmO]

The moral tone of the country and women particular shows this will not be changing any time soon.  The biggest problem in this country would be foster children/costs but that could be alleviated in a few different ways.  1.) kick all the illegals out to free up $, 2.) allow for easier adoptions so parents don't have to go to Vietnam to get a child, 3.) mass distribute contraception in the poor neighborhoods.

Every thing you put there sounds great,  of course there are down sides to every solution.

I do strongly agree with your first sentence.  It's too bad we cannot rise above it.

[Straw Man]

can either of you expand on your feelings about the moral tone of the country and women in particular?

is the problem SEX, unwanted pregnancy or something else.

What is it about womens morals in particular??

[Cap]

Every thing you put there sounds great,  of course there are down sides to every solution.

I do strongly agree with your first sentence.  It's too bad we cannot rise above it.

I think we should rise above it and I welcome it but if you conversed with and understood the mentality of women in my age range (assuming we are not in the same) you would see how morally bankrupt women are now compared to our mothers.  The thing is that we still see women as pure but they are not.  Most are sluttier than guys because girls can get sex whenever they want.  This obviously doesn't represent all women but a growing number.  They know they can get abortions and there is no stigma attached to it like there used to be.

As for my solutions, well, I think I could guess a few downsides but I could counter.  Shall we battle in the cage?  I warn you, I'm a master(de)bater....

can either of you expand on your feelings about the moral tone of the country and women in particular?

is the problem SEX, unwanted pregnancy or something else.

What is it about womens morals in particular??

The liberal nature of sex, particularly unprotected unsafe sex.  I know a 21 year old girl, who went to high school in an affluent area ended up not going to college, got knocked up at 20 and is now on her second pregnancy because for a second time she decided to not use contraception with her bf.  He is an idiot too but unless he wants to rape her, he isn't getting any.  She is the gatekeeper to her vagina.  Sex isn't the problem, it's women having unprotected and/or drunk sex which leads to a lot of problems.  They think they can't get pregnant but they do. 

[OzmO]

I think we should rise above it and I welcome it but if you conversed with and understood the mentality of women in my age range (assuming we are not in the same) you would see how morally bankrupt women are now compared to our mothers.  The thing is that we still see women as pure but they are not.  Most are sluttier than guys because girls can get sex whenever they want.  This obviously doesn't represent all women but a growing number.  They know they can get abortions and there is no stigma attached to it like there used to be.

As for my solutions, well, I think I could guess a few downsides but I could counter.  Shall we battle in the cage?  I warn you, I'm a master(de)bater....

We've discussed this before and i agree with most everything you say regarding abortion, the only difference is i don't think making illegal will do any good but instead do more harm.  The thing is i don't strongly agree it should be legal so i wouldn't be a good candidate for the master (de)bater....

[Cap]

We've discussed this before and i agree with most everything you say regarding abortion, the only difference is i don't think making illegal will do any good but instead do more harm.  The thing is i don't strongly agree it should be legal so i wouldn't be a good candidate for the master (de)bater....

I know.  I just threw that in because of "the Cage" thread.   

[Straw Man]

The liberal nature of sex, particularly unprotected unsafe sex.  I know a 21 year old girl, who went to high school in an affluent area ended up not going to college, got knocked up at 20 and is now on her second pregnancy because for a second time she decided to not use contraception with her bf.  He is an idiot too but unless he wants to rape her, he isn't getting any.  She is the gatekeeper to her vagina.  Sex isn't the problem, it's women having unprotected and/or drunk sex which leads to a lot of problems.  They think they can't get pregnant but they do. 

well there are no shortage of idiots of either sex.  I'm still not sure I understand the immorality part - especially as being the greater burden of the women.  I see morality more as arbitrary rule following of  region, religious or ethnic group.  For example - wearing a short skirt can be considered immoral in the Pakistan or Afghanistan but still be perferctly fine in Europe or the US.   Some religous folks see dancing as immoral where other dont' have a problem with it.  

I think person in your example is just plain old fashion stupidity combined with immaturity rather than being a moral issue - IMO

Now if she abandoned her child, abused it, etc.. I would see that as immoral not to mention illegal

[Cap]

well there are no shortage of idiots of either sex.  I'm still not sure I understand the immorality part - especially as being the greater burden of the women.  I see morality more as arbitrary rule following of  region, religious or ethnic group.  For example - wearing a short skirt can be considered immoral in the Pakistan or Afghanistan but still be perferctly fine in Europe or the US.   Some religous folks see dancing as immoral where other dont' have a problem with it. 

I think person in your example is just plain old fashion stupidity combined with immaturity rather than being a moral issue - IMO

Now if she abandoned her child, abused it, etc.. I would see that as immoral not to mention illegal

Her morals as far as sex go show that she can't keep them zipped up.  I know women far worse and hear them openly talk about sex more than my male friends.  Stupidity is surely an issue with these women but the liberal mind set about sex is increasing more with women but it is worse with them because they allow men to have sex.  Call yourself suave but a women lets you bone her.  The free-sex mindset is more problematic with women as a result.

[Straw Man]

Her morals as far as sex go show that she can't keep them zipped up.  I know women far worse and hear them openly talk about sex more than my male friends.  Stupidity is surely an issue with these women but the liberal mind set about sex is increasing more with women but it is worse with them because they allow men to have sex.  Call yourself suave but a women lets you bone her.  The free-sex mindset is more problematic with women as a result.

ok so your're saying the moral issue is about sex?  What if the woman was on the pill or some other contraceptive with all other activity being the same as in your example.

Still immoral?

[Cap]

ok so your're saying the moral issue is about sex?  What if the woman was on the pill or some other contraceptive with all other activity being the same as in your example.

Still immoral?

I originally said in my first response that it was dealing with liberal unprotected sex.  There is still the likelihood of conception in your example.  A big problem is that many don't use both.  Regardless, taking sex as lightly as they do is the moral issue.  Combine that with the ease with which women partake in abortion, and you have two immoral actions. 

[Straw Man]

I originally said in my first response that it was dealing with liberal unprotected sex.  There is still the likelihood of conception in your example.  A big problem is that many don't use both.  Regardless, taking sex as lightly as they do is the moral issue.  Combine that with the ease with which women partake in abortion, and you have two immoral actions. 

in my example the woman in on birth control so although conception might be possible it is highly unlikely and that isolates the issue of promiscuity.  I have a problem understanding how one can say that the same action can be more immoral if a woman does it than if a man does it, especially given the fact that, as a general rule, men are more sexually driven than woman and also tend to be the sexual aggressors.