.

[GymTime]

.

[timfogarty]

but I think that the physique he has is attainable for a natural.

No, it is not.   His physique, like all the pros of the late 1970s and early 1980s, is what you get with large amounts of steroids.    It only looks like something that could be obtained naturally because you're so use to looking at today's GH and insulin filled pros.

[Matt C]

Tim is right.  I think Gary's physique may be obtainable with moderate doses of juice though.  Back in his day and also in the eighties, there were lots of steroids, but no GH and insulin.  Bob Paris did say he did a six week cycle of GH for his pro card win, although that length of time for a GH cycle makes no sense.

[Bobby]

if you achieve that natural you are damn good!

[Hulkster]

agreed.

but as far as the ideal physique goes, needs more lat width and quad sweep to look really really good.

[sculpture]

Tim is right.  I think Gary's physique may be obtainable with moderate doses of juice though.  Back in his day and also in the eighties, there were lots of steroids, but no GH and insulin.  Bob Paris did say he did a six week cycle of GH for his pro card win, although that length of time for a GH cycle makes no sense.

Yes but probably at the time the knowlegde and recommendations on optimal GH usage was non existent.

[sculpture]

agreed.

but as far as the ideal physique goes, needs more lat width and quad sweep to look really really good.

It depends on the standards. Compared the freaks of the modern game Gary seems undersized and "attainable" (bloody good on someone if they acheive that without assistance).

Lets be honest, any one of us here would do anything to walk around sporting that physique on the beach

[sculpture]

Mentzer in a similar location.
Who's physique would you prefer?
[img]

[The Squadfather]

the size is achieveable natural but not the condition combined with that size, a natural of that size will have a nice layer of fat over it, still impressive though.

[BFP]

Mentzer in a similar location.
Who's physique would you prefer?
[img]

Mentzer.  Even though the guy was a space cadet.

Jason

[Camel Jockey]

Francis Benefatto(wrong spelling) had a very ideal physique too. ND, if you're reading, can you post some pics of Francis?

[timfogarty]

Yes but probably at the time the knowlegde and recommendations on optimal GH usage was non existent.

in the early 1980s, the only GH was from adolescent male cadavers.  it was very hard to get and very expensive.   any bodybuilder doing it was probably doing 2-3 IUs a day.   Today, 18 IUs a day is not unheard of.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Francis Benefatto(wrong spelling) had a very ideal physique too. ND, if you're reading, can you post some pics of Francis?

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think this is ideal

[NarcissisticDeity]

I mean this is bodybuilder , or was lol

[disco_stu]

No, it is not.   His physique, like all the pros of the late 1970s and early 1980s, is what you get with large amounts of steroids.    It only looks like something that could be obtained naturally because you're so use to looking at today's GH and insulin filled pros.

tim i love your posts- always factual, concise and no BS.

its funny that immediateoy after your post the next poster first agrees with you- then states that he thinks it is possible to attain that development with moderate roid usage.

its clear that many members here have not known other BBs, spent alot of time in the scene, used themselves or spent time with national level competitors.

[Matt C]

tim i love your posts- always factual, concise and no BS.

its funny that immediateoy after your post the next poster first agrees with you- then states that he thinks it is possible to attain that development with moderate roid usage.

its clear that many members here have not known other BBs, spent alot of time in the scene, used themselves or spent time with national level competitors.

To be fair, Tim stated you develop that type of physique with large amounts of steroids and that is true.  I'm just saying it may be possible to develop that type of physique with a more modest amount of steroids, although I can't claim to know that for a fact. 

[timfogarty]

To be fair, Tim stated you develop that type of physique with large amounts of steroids and that is true.  I'm just saying it may be possible to develop that type of physique with a more modest amount of steroids, although I can't claim to know that for a fact. 

I intentionally didn't say anything about dosage.   I believe the best looking physiques (wrt symmetry and proportionality) are developed with moderate doses over many years, which is still a large amount of steroids.   Guys who do large doses over a short period of time get very big very quickly but don't look as good.

[bigdumbbell]

Came across this pic of Gary Leonard.  Pretty much the ideal look in my opinion.  I wouldn't mind having a physique like that one day.  I doubt Gary was natural, but I think that the physique he has is attainable for a natural.

arnold interviewed him during some show and gary was great and very expressive.

[8 INCH not biceps]

  The biggest problem with being natural is that you can get very ripped but you lose a lot of size, or you can get very big and you lose that ripped look.

[Camel Jockey]

  The biggest problem with being natural is that you can get very ripped but you lose a lot of size, or you can get very big and you lose that ripped look.

When you're a ripped natural you don't really look like a bodybuilder unless you're shirtless. When you're bulked up you don't show your body, but the muscles do show through clothing. Like I cut back a lot and everyone says I look skinny, but I haven't really lost any muscle, just a lot of strength. In the mirror and in photos I look bigger when I'm 20 lbs lighter. Like one guy in the gym said I got skinny since he last saw me but when we were changing in the locker room, he said I looked huge.  Fat creates the illusion of size.

[Hypo]

the size is achieveable natural but not the condition combined with that size, a natural of that size will have a nice layer of fat over it, still impressive though.

Bingo. The best days in BB was when average people could think they could attain the pro's size (eg. Zane) and be comparable. It gives people a sense of achievement when they get close, but in reality, naturally, they wouldn't be anywhere near that combo of size AND cuts.

[Andre Nickatina]

I don't mean to make htis a pissing contest but ths is my ideal

[Camel Jockey]

I don't mean to make htis a pissing contest but ths is my ideal

black Bob Paris with bigger glutes.

[benchmstr]

Came across this pic of Gary Leonard.  Pretty much the ideal look in my opinion.  I wouldn't mind having a physique like that one day.  I doubt Gary was natural, but I think that the physique he has is attainable for a natural.

that guys physique is identical to lockett,and to me is the ideal look.

bench