ZMA/Deep Sleep

[Tkeeze]

I started taking 3 ZMA caps prior to bed along with 2 BCAA caps.  I can't believe the deep sleep I'm getting...not to mention the weird dreams.  No complaints...just wondering why ZMA has this effect.

Any ideas?

T

[Necrosis]

have no idea why magnesium would affect dreams, it could have something to do with the serotonin interaction of the B6, but magnesium is slightly anxiolytic with muscle relaxing properties, hence the improved sleep.

the dreams may be a myth to be honest.

its just zinc magnesium and b6, nothing special. citrate might be a better choice of magnesium as it is absorbed better but has laxative effects.

[Emmortal]

ZMA always made me have extremely vivid dreams, to the point I stopped taking it.  I did get a really deep sleep on it and sometimes when I have an extremely intense workout I'll take some so i can get to sleep, but I normally don't use it.

[busyB]

I get crazy ass dreams but feel refreshed and awake in the morning...telling me that I was in a deep, deep sleep. I sleep light as it is and wake up easy in the night so ZMA really helps chase the boogie man away!

I have read it is the magnesium that relaxes and puts you in that state....something to do with the aspartate it is bound to?!? Could be out on a limb on that one as it was a while since reading that. All I know is I sleep deep and recover better when I am sleeping well..

[loco]

have no idea why magnesium would affect dreams, it could have something to do with the serotonin interaction of the B6, but magnesium is slightly anxiolytic with muscle relaxing properties, hence the improved sleep.

the dreams may be a myth to be honest.

its just zinc magnesium and b6, nothing special. citrate might be a better choice of magnesium as it is absorbed better but has laxative effects.

usmokepole,
Just out of curiousity, why do you say the dreams may be a myth? 

I get the same effect from taking pure GABA in a glass of water, on an empty stomach before bedtime.  I get a better night sleep, very vivid, weird dreams, and in the morning I feel very refreshed.  What do you make of that?

[powerpack]

ZMA always made me have extremely vivid dreams, to the point I stopped taking it.  I did get a really deep sleep on it and sometimes when I have an extremely intense workout I'll take some so i can get to sleep, but I normally don't use it.

The dreams I got from ZMA was also the reason I stopped using it.
Intense, vivid and upsetting.

[davie]

Deepnights sleep sound good.

Why wer /are u taking ZMA in the 1st place??

davie

[Tkeeze]

Deepnights sleep sound good.

Why wer /are u taking ZMA in the 1st place??

davie

Just for testosterone support.

T

[Necrosis]

usmokepole,
Just out of curiousity, why do you say the dreams may be a myth? 

I get the same effect from taking pure GABA in a glass of water, on an empty stomach before bedtime.  I get a better night sleep, very vivid, weird dreams, and in the morning I feel very refreshed.  What do you make of that?

since gaba is an inhibitory amino acid/neurotransmitter that doesnt cross the blood brain barrier i cannot explain it other then placebo. dream states are usually related to serotonin, with gaba decreasing dreams in most cases because it fucks up your sleep architecture(the stages). gaba may be good for sleep, but its effects are mostly preripheral, so dreaming should not be an issue.

or,there are gaba receptors thoughtout the body, so you may feel relaxed allowing you to get a deeper sleep without impairing CNS activity. that could allow you to get more REM sleep and dream a little more.

[suckmymuscle]

I started taking 3 ZMA caps prior to bed along with 2 BCAA caps.  I can't believe the deep sleep I'm getting...not to mention the weird dreams.  No complaints...just wondering why ZMA has this effect.

Any ideas?

T

  This has been beaten to death...and then some.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

have no idea why magnesium would affect dreams, it could have something to do with the serotonin interaction of the B6, but magnesium is slightly anxiolytic with muscle relaxing properties, hence the improved sleep.

the dreams may be a myth to be honest.

its just zinc magnesium and b6, nothing special. citrate might be a better choice of magnesium as it is absorbed better but has laxative effects.

  No, the combo of Magnesium with B6 boosts the production of dopamine in the substantia nigra of the brain, resulting in increased dopamine levels in the pre-frontal cortex and nucleus accumbens. The "vivacity" of the dreams is related to this dopaminergic action and not to any indolaminergic interaction it might have.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Necrosis]

  No, the combo of Magnesium with B6 boosts the production of dopamine in the substantia nigra of the brain, resulting in increased dopamine levels in the pre-frontal cortex and nucleus accumbens. The "vivacity" of the dreams is related to this dopaminergic action and not to any indolaminergic interaction it might have.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

that would have a stimulating effect on the person. increasing catecholamines causes energy. just look at wellbutrin. have any articles on magnesium causes any noticeable effects on dopaminergic pathways?

would be interesting if that was the case.

i honestly think its do to the muscle relaxing properties, allowing one to get more comfortable and achieve a deeper sleep, there is also some cns sedation involved.

[suckmymuscle]

that would have a stimulating effect on the person. increasing catecholamines causes energy. just look at wellbutrin. have any articles on magnesium causes any noticeable effects on dopaminergic pathways?

would be interesting if that was the case.

i honestly think its do to the muscle relaxing properties, allowing one to get more comfortable and achieve a deeper sleep, there is also some cns sedation involved.

  No, Magnesium boosts dopamine function. In experiences with rats, feeding them a diet rich in DL-phenylalanine but deficient in Magnesium caused brain depletion of dopamine levels while leaving other catecholamines, like norepinephrine and epinephrine, unaffected. You can search the web. As for why ZMA has a sedative effect is a mystery, because it does boost dopamine across the brain. One of the msot reported effects of taking ZMA is an increased sense of alertness and well-being in thre next day, and this is probably caused by dopaminergic effect.

SUCKMYMUSCLE                                                                                                                                                     

[Necrosis]

  No, Magnesium boosts dopamine function. In experiences with rats, feeding them a diet rich in DL-phenylalanine but deficient in Magnesium caused brain depletion of dopamine levels while leaving other catecholamines, like norepinephrine and epinephrine, unaffected. You can search the web. As for why ZMA has a sedative effect is a mystery, because it does boost dopamine across the brain. One of the msot reported effects of taking ZMA is an increased sense of alertness and well-being in thre next day, and this is probably caused by dopaminergic effect.

SUCKMYMUSCLE                                                                                                                                                     

i didnt find dl-phenylalanine that effective for mood support, inositol was much better. but magnesium increasing dopamine does make a little more sense now that i think of the mood enhancing effects it has. but its a bit at odds with allowing one to sleep, it should be the opposite for the most part.

good post.

[andreisdaman]

I had this same thing happen to me also...I took T3 ZMA from NxLabs...it was awesome....my dreams were vivid, realistic and I could remember every dsetail the next day...dreamed I was fighting an alien on Mars with a flame thrower and I swear it seemed I was right there...being engulfed by the fire...it was amazing....the colors were bright and I swore I was experiencing being in hell.....this stuff is a great hallucinigen...felt really fresh the next day...

[littleguns]

I had the same thing, very vivid dreams in color.

One of my buddies turned me onto Iforce Secretagain, puts me into deep REM sleep without the dreams, same price as alot of the ZMA formulas....

Wake up rested and ready to rock and roll

[davie]

So is ZMA better than other test increasing products suc as Tribex?

WHat ZMA brand are u guys using??

davie

[busyB]

So is ZMA better than other test increasing products suc as Tribex?

WHat ZMA brand are u guys using??

davie

Total differant products man...

ZMA= zinc magnesium aspartate. A study was done in the 90's that showed men who trained were dificient in zinc, a mineral that is used in test production. Taking ZMA showed they recovered from training much more efficently.

Trib (tribex)= raises LH, produced by our testes. Lutenizing Hormone production can also dip with age or after andogen use.

A good natural stack will be both Trib and ZMA at night.

Tribs, I like Controlled Labs Blue Up, Nutrex Vitrix

ZMA, all are the same, trademarked by SNAC systems. Dymatize Z-Force I like a bit better than other ZMAs.

[littleguns]

Personally I was using the Twin Labs, very affordable and basically same ingredients as all the others...

[davie]

Thanksmate,if u ad to choose and only take one which wud it b??

I was looking for a gud test booster that would help recovery and size increase.

And one that any u wudnt lose any benifits (eg size) if u stopped taking it?!

davie

[busyB]

Thanksmate,if u ad to choose and only take one which wud it b??

I was looking for a gud test booster that would help recovery and size increase.

And one that any u wudnt lose any benifits (eg size) if u stopped taking it?!

davie

You should not lose much if any size from natural test boosters. Just maybe some limp dick when you stop taking them. 

Again, all ZMA's should be the same trademarked brand around $15-20 for 1 month.

Good Tribs will cost more. If you see a Trib @ $15, its crap. STick with the ones I mentioned above.

[davie]

Kul....so lastly, u sed tribex was a natural test booster, wud ucall ZMA a natural test booster?

davie

[busyB]

yes...

[ngm21084]

do you have an evidence that it actually does increase natural test levels or articles about it...not trying to be a dick but i have heard and read a good amount that although they can there is no definite proof that they do...just wondering

[busyB]

do you have an evidence that it actually does increase natural test levels or articles about it...not trying to be a dick but i have heard and read a good amount that although they can there is no definite proof that they do...just wondering

There is no proof that any supplement does what is says. The ZMA study was done in the 90's by none other than Victor Conte (BALCO). I am sure I could dig it up somewhere. Tribs, good luck, there is a lot of ditch grown trib out there.

I go off a lot of practical application with supps. Meaning, try out the products and see what happens. Unfortunatly, my experience with supps is that sometimes that works best and I never get my hopes up so I dont get bummed if it does not work. Just another company making outrageous claims. I have a lot of friends in the industry so get a lot of supps free but I understand people dont have tons of money to blow on supps. Put it this way, I know some of the Tribs and ZMA work for me as my little guy is standing at attention most of the day or get aroused easy.

Plus, I know some older guys in their 40's who do not want HRT, take these products and feel much better in all areas where test is low. Meaning, their wives love them again, recovering better from exercise and not depressed.