Author Topic: Calves  (Read 2135 times)

davie

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Calves
« on: November 30, 2007, 08:51:30 AM »
Hey guys.
Im a DC lover. And have used its calf method before, I found it did help calves but mainly just in the strength department.

Im currently using the 'mtwain' program (see above sticky on calves - in this training board) from iron age.

The question is no somuch about calfprograms, as calf shape.

I try and do the routinr twice a week, one with toes slightly out (heels in), and once just straight feet.

I was of belief tht if toe placement did indeed hit certain areas of the calf, then it would be toes out =inner calf, and toes in=outer calf.

I am finding that i think when i do this toes out, or just normal stance,that my outer calf is in pain more the days after this.

My inner calf is soreto the touch but when i stretch i feely outer calfmore.

Does this mean im working my outer calfmore, even with my toes out??

davie
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wes

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Re: Calves
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 02:36:41 PM »
Toe position is basically a crock of shit........much more important is volume(should be as much as any other bodypart or more),full range of motion,half reps after no more full reps can be completed,and intensity techniques so that the calves do not adapt to the workload/stress,above all be consistant.

If you do 12 sets for pecs and lats and only 4 for calves,don`t expect much progress unless genetically gifted in the calf department.

Super-Sets,Drop-Sets,Giant-Sets,Tri-Sets,etc. etc.,will help to ensure that they are kept from adapting.

Also,do higher reps(up to 50) and lower reps(5-8) and everything in between.

The Squadfather

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Re: Calves
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 02:42:04 PM »
Toe position is basically a crock of shit........much more important is volume(should be as much as any other bodypart or more),full range of motion,half reps after no more full reps can be completed,and intensity techniques so that the calves do not adapt to the workload/stress,above all be consistant.

If you do 12 sets for pecs and lats and only 4 for calves,don`t expect much progress unless genetically gifted in the calf department.

Super-Sets,Drop-Sets,Giant-Sets,Tri-Sets,etc. etc.,will help to ensure that they are kept from adapting.

Also,do higher reps(up to 50) and lower reps(5-8) and everything in between.
exactly, a state level competitor said a couple of weeks ago that he does 8 sets of 20 with the stack on standing raises, that sounds to me like a good goal to strive for and i'm definitely not there yet but the calves have no choice but to grow on something like that.

davie

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Re: Calves
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 09:14:53 AM »
So what do think about the what i said: That my outer calves seem to more painful the days after a good calf workout?

davie
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The Squadfather

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Re: Calves
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 09:36:58 AM »
So what do think about the what i said: That my outer calves seem to more painful the days after a good calf workout?

davie
that says to me that's the part of the muscle that's doing the majority of the work, try some other foot placememnts where you feel the stress in the inner head.

jpm101

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Re: Calves
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2007, 10:01:29 AM »
Agree with Wes about toe placement. Too much hype on that myth. And volume can be all important for growth. One the better calf builder exercise is one leg calf raise of a high block. Hold a DB in hand as you get stronger. Alternate each side without 30-45 second rest between, 10-15 reps a set, for 5 to 7 sets each. Try fast and quick reps rather than slow reps. And a full and powerful contraction at the top position on each rep. Which means you will be standing on the big toe (and it's partner toe) at that top position. Also consider 40 yd sprints, 5 to 7 cycles, for exceptional calves. And rather gaining rather fast at that. Good Luck.
F

davie

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Re: Calves
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 08:37:11 AM »
Agree with Wes about toe placement. Too much hype on that myth. And volume can be all important for growth. One the better calf builder exercise is one leg calf raise of a high block. Hold a DB in hand as you get stronger. Alternate each side without 30-45 second rest between, 10-15 reps a set, for 5 to 7 sets each. Try fast and quick reps rather than slow reps. And a full and powerful contraction at the top position on each rep. Which means you will be standing on the big toe (and it's partner toe) at that top position. Also consider 40 yd sprints, 5 to 7 cycles, for exceptional calves. And rather gaining rather fast at that. Good Luck.

Thanks, but the prob isnmt what im doing, its mayb..how im doing it.

Im building the routine around single leg calf raises, as i think they are great.

I am trying to focus on putting most my weight over the big toe at the top of the rep to really try focus tension on inner calfes.

When i do the exercise the hole calf hurts, but on days after its the outer that hurts more.

Thanks squadfather for feedback aswell.

davie
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mar10s

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Re: Calves
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 03:31:57 PM »
Did you incorporate seated calf raises into your routine, or are you just talking about/focusing on the standing stack raises?

davie

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Re: Calves
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2007, 01:49:24 PM »
The issue has/is not what im doing.

Its which parts im trying to focus on.

davie
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The Freakshow

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Re: Calves
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2007, 05:25:09 PM »
The issue has/is not what im doing.

Its which parts im trying to focus on.

davie

Davie - You CANNOT focus on inner or outer calves (as far as the soleus and gastroc are concerned).

The calf muscles that you are referring to, the soleus and gastroc serve one function - Plantarflexion (heel raise or coming up on your toes).

Heel raises or resisted plantarflexion can be performed with the knees near extension (straight) or with the knees flexed (bent). As a single joint muscle the 'soleus' (underlying muscle) is involved in both. As the knees are flexed to approx. 90 degrees and the ankle nears full plantar flexion, the gastroc becomes actively insufficient, leaving the soleus to do all of the work (along with the posterior tibialis, etc.).

So, with that being said, obviously the two most common exercises would be Standing Calf Raises (Gastroc primary and Soleus secondary) and Seated Calf Raises (Soleus primary).  Pointing your toes out or in is NOT the function of these muscles.

So the issue actually is what you are doing. I would focus on the two main exercises mentioned above. My favorite rep scheme is 6-12 to failure and I limit my failure sets to four. So that would look like this:


Seated Calf Raise      4 sets   6-12 reps   

Standing Calf Raise             4 sets   6-12 reps

*this does NOT include warm-ups.

Anything above 12 reps will not stimulate hypertrophy (growth), rather, it will increase localized muscular endurance.

I have used this rep/set scheme very effectively for many years. My calves were 22" at their biggest.

The most important thing is FAILURE with complete controlled range of motion (slow and methodical not bouncing around).

There's the FACTS. No speculation or myths, just the SCIENCE.


davie

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Re: Calves
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2007, 01:41:14 AM »
Thanx for the response. I am ok with regards to what exercises to d

The original problem was that i had felt it more in outer calves on days following heavy calf work, that is all.

Thanks for response tho.

davie
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webcake

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Re: Calves
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2007, 02:47:45 AM »
It seems funny that your outer calf would be sore from standing calf raise work. Only thing i could think of is making sure form is perfect, knees straight, and getting a good stretch at the bottom and really focus on raising the heels as high as possible. And keep feet straight. Don't bother with toes pointed in and out.
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natural al

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Re: Calves
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2007, 12:46:14 PM »
in all honesty, DC calf training is the best and can be the most intense calf training I've ever done.  I'm up to about 630lbs for about 12 reps on the toe press using a standard leg press machine, that's with a 15 count stretch at the bottom.  The leg press I have access to is not the best in the world and the weight seems alot heavier than it is but I gotta tell ya it's a killer.  Honestly I don't see how someone's calf's can't grow using DC's methods for training that particular bodypart, say what you want about his other concepts and techniques but the calf technique works pretty damn good.

I'd give it another shot if I was you davie...
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davie

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Re: Calves
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2007, 11:09:08 AM »
in all honesty, DC calf training is the best and can be the most intense calf training I've ever done.  I'm up to about 630lbs for about 12 reps on the toe press using a standard leg press machine, that's with a 15 count stretch at the bottom.  The leg press I have access to is not the best in the world and the weight seems alot heavier than it is but I gotta tell ya it's a killer.  Honestly I don't see how someone's calf's can't grow using DC's methods for training that particular bodypart, say what you want about his other concepts and techniques but the calf technique works pretty damn good.

I'd give it another shot if I was you davie...

Thanks Al, u know im a DC follower 100%, but i have to say im starting to like this other method. V intense set (read the calf threas at top of training board).

Im gonna c wer it takes me.

Im trying to docus on raising right up onto toes, right up on to big toe.

davie
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natural al

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Re: Calves
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2007, 11:17:40 AM »
Thanks Al, u know im a DC follower 100%, but i have to say im starting to like this other method. V intense set (read the calf threas at top of training board).

Im gonna c wer it takes me.

Im trying to docus on raising right up onto toes, right up on to big toe.

davie
yeah, I read that a little while ago, I guess it's decent and people seem to love it, I haven't tried it so I can't comment to much.  going up on the big toe was something that was kinda popular back in the late 80's....

FYI, I tried like hell to find that parillo calf raise explanation online and couldn't find it...I don't even know if I could describe it so people would understand it...

sorry man..
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davie

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Re: Calves
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2007, 10:42:55 AM »
yeah, I read that a little while ago, I guess it's decent and people seem to love it, I haven't tried it so I can't comment to much.  going up on the big toe was something that was kinda popular back in the late 80's....

FYI, I tried like hell to find that parillo calf raise explanation online and couldn't find it...I don't even know if I could describe it so people would understand it...

sorry man..

Thats ok, thnaks for looking tho.

I didnt know that trying to go up onto big toe (dont always manage it, but im trying) was popular. I just try and do it to get full range of motion+i feel it more in the inside of my calf.

davie
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