HOW MUCH DO YOU T-BAR ROW????

[Van_Bilderass]

aww shit i thought that was the tbar row machine...i know when i do it the OG way i do a lot of bouncing, but i can do more weight.

Now that I think about it, yeah I think chest supported row is sometimes called machine t-bar row. I just see it as a different exercise. You definitely can't use the same load because you can't cheat.

[TooPowerful4u]

Well guys I'm off to the gym,

I'm not a big guy (5'5'' circa 200 lbs and a bit tubby), and I'm a lifetime natural. But I train very hard in an Arthur Jones HIT fashion doing full body workouts and using proper form. So when I hit the gym I do the following:
-Back squat (ass to the ground)  ...315 for 10ish reps
-Deadlift (narrow stance)           ....315 for 10ish reps
-Bench                                    ...225 for 10
-Close grip bench (ez bar)           ...200 for 10ish
-Dips                                       ...bodyweight for 10-15
-Ez bar Rows                            ...200 for 10
-Pullups                                   ...bodyweight for a few reps                     
-Curls                                     ...100ish lbs

I'm certainly not weak (I deadlift 405 for 11 or so when I skip squats) yet 200 lb rows leave my lats so fecked I can't do pullups or curls properly afterwards.

But if you guys row 500 for sets of 10, I'm probably doing something wrong... just like the 50ish inch chest I got from flying with 20 lb dumbbells, must be doing something wrong.


The Luke
PS-I'll paypal $100 to any GetBigger who can row 315 with an arched back and their torso parallel to the ground while pulling the bar to their lower abdomen. Just post a YouTube video (drop the plates individually to prove they're not fake)

Is this genuine?  How many reps are required?  So bend over until torso is parallel to the ground with an arched back and pull the bar to the stomach?  This have to be 110% strict or is a tad bit of swing allowed?  Might have to take you up on this  , before i do...no bodyweight stipulations, natural stipulations, etc.... right?

[The Luke]

Is this genuine?  How many reps are required?  So bend over until torso is parallel to the ground with an arched back and pull the bar to the stomach?  This have to be 110% strict or is a tad bit of swing allowed?  Might have to take you up on this  , before i do...no bodyweight stipulations, natural stipulations, etc.... right?

...pulling to the pubic bone/lower stomach while bent over at 90 degrees and maintaining an arched (not simply flat) back is pretty much impossible with 3 plates... at least impossible to do strictly with a shoulder width grip.

It's a pretty facetious bet, but that was my point. All these guys rowing with weights they can barely deadlift are deluding themselves... that picture of Dorian Yates doing a modified shrug kinda proves my point. The proper form is something akin to the arch of a Nautilus pullover machine movement, most of these three plate rowers (and I've trained them) can handle, maybe, one plate with proper form. Try rowing three plates on a high rowing bench and you'll get the idea.

To use three plates properly you should also be able to curl two plates strictly and bench 400 to 450 pounds... that kinda puts things into perspective.

Perhaps I should just video one of my workouts.


The Luke   

[TooPowerful4u]

...pulling to the pubic bone/lower stomach while bent over at 90 degrees and maintaining an arched (not simply flat) back is pretty much impossible with 3 plates... at least impossible to do strictly with a shoulder width grip.

It's a pretty facetious bet, but that was my point. All these guys rowing with weights they can barely deadlift are deluding themselves... that picture of Dorian Yates doing a modified shrug kinda proves my point. The proper form is something akin to the arch of a Nautilus pullover machine movement, most of these three plate rowers (and I've trained them) can handle, maybe, one plate with proper form. Try rowing three plates on a high rowing bench and you'll get the idea.

To use three plates properly you should also be able to curl two plates strictly and bench 400 to 450 pounds... that kinda puts things into perspective.

Perhaps I should just video one of my workouts.


The Luke   

il give it a shot next back workout.  I KNOW iv done 225 fairly easy for 12 the way you describe...oh and i can hammer curl 100s x 6-8 reps and bench 400 so lets see hehe havent bb rowed in a while, i like tbars better

[Cap]

...pulling to the pubic bone/lower stomach while bent over at 90 degrees and maintaining an arched (not simply flat) back is pretty much impossible with 3 plates... at least impossible to do strictly with a shoulder width grip.

It's a pretty facetious bet, but that was my point. All these guys rowing with weights they can barely deadlift are deluding themselves... that picture of Dorian Yates doing a modified shrug kinda proves my point. The proper form is something akin to the arch of a Nautilus pullover machine movement, most of these three plate rowers (and I've trained them) can handle, maybe, one plate with proper form. Try rowing three plates on a high rowing bench and you'll get the idea.

To use three plates properly you should also be able to curl two plates strictly and bench 400 to 450 pounds... that kinda puts things into perspective.

Perhaps I should just video one of my workouts.


The Luke   

Yeah so are Arnold and Franco freaks of nature?  Those pictures of them rowing 3 plates on a bench must be worth a lot of money.

[Van_Bilderass]

...pulling to the pubic bone/lower stomach while bent over at 90 degrees and maintaining an arched (not simply flat) back is pretty much impossible with 3 plates... at least impossible to do strictly with a shoulder width grip.

It's a pretty facetious bet, but that was my point. All these guys rowing with weights they can barely deadlift are deluding themselves... that picture of Dorian Yates doing a modified shrug kinda proves my point. The proper form is something akin to the arch of a Nautilus pullover machine movement, most of these three plate rowers (and I've trained them) can handle, maybe, one plate with proper form. Try rowing three plates on a high rowing bench and you'll get the idea.

To use three plates properly you should also be able to curl two plates strictly and bench 400 to 450 pounds... that kinda puts things into perspective.

Perhaps I should just video one of my workouts.


The Luke   

Would this be acceptable form?

I just started playing with this variation and I was getting like 6 very strict reps with 250lbs, after doing pulldowns and face-pulls. I was a bit stricter than this guy I think, less knee bend throughout. I think I could do 315 for a couple of reps in a few weeks.

[Van_Bilderass]

il give it a shot next back workout.  I KNOW iv done 225 fairly easy for 12 the way you describe...oh and i can hammer curl 100s x 6-8 reps and bench 400 so lets see hehe havent bb rowed in a while, i like tbars better

If you're going to film any lifts you need a better phone or camera. Horrible quality in the ones you've posted before. 

[The Luke]

Yeah so are Arnold and Franco freaks of nature?  Those pictures of them rowing 3 plates on a bench must be worth a lot of money.

...did you see those pictures in Flex magazine perchance?

I've seen pictures of Arnold squatting with four plates, only to later see the same picture with five plates on the bar... only to then see video from which the photo was taken wherein Arnold is squatting only three plates (still good for a taller guy).

I believe Franco could row three plates with good form and Keith (onlyme) claims he has personally witnessed Franco rowing four plates... but Franco only rowed to his upper ab (okay if you have low lat attachments and short arms, but not optimal). A proper row with three plates is about as rare as a five hundred pound bench press... but everyone on GetBig benches five hundred.


The Luke

[The Squadfather]

hahaha, check out the way this jackass does pendlay rows, he may as well just do them the regular swing style.

&NR=1

[The Squadfather]

il give it a shot next back workout.  I KNOW iv done 225 fairly easy for 12 the way you describe...oh and i can hammer curl 100s x 6-8 reps and bench 400 so lets see hehe havent bb rowed in a while, i like tbars better

bullshit on the hammers and bench press.

[TooPowerful4u]

If you're going to film any lifts you need a better phone or camera. Horrible quality in the ones you've posted before. 

im gonna look like a tool bringing my digi cam to film it cuz my phone only does 15 sec and i gotta prove plates are real haha

[Van_Bilderass]

hahaha, check out the way this jackass does pendlay rows, he may as well just do them the regular swing style.

&NR=1

Yeah that wasn't very strict.

This is good form:

[TooPowerful4u]

bullshit on the hammers and bench press.

why wont you just die?  As i said.... if you put your screen name on the line...il go to the gym NOW and come back in an hour and post the damn video's for you.  Whattt sayy youuuu?

[The Squadfather]

why wont you just die?  As i said.... if you put your screen name on the line...il go to the gym NOW and come back in an hour and post the damn video's for you.  Whattt sayy youuuu?

hahahahaa, just post the clips hero.

[TooPowerful4u]

hahahahaa, just post the clips hero.

Honestly.... if i were to JUST do these lifts for YOU...THAT would make me your bitch and would represent you OWNING me... so i refuse unless you put your screen name on the line.  Your MY bitch right now because you are backing down from my challange, since you are the one who called me out on it.  It would be extremely immature for me to run to the gym right now just to prove myself to you....but il do it if you put your screen name on the line and i take control of it  ...... if you decline or fail to give adequate excuse...you backed down... your MY bitch... i OWN you 

[The Squadfather]

Honestly.... if i were to JUST do these lifts for YOU...THAT would make me your bitch and would represent you OWNING me... so i refuse unless you put your screen name on the line.  Your MY bitch right now because you are backing down from my challange, since you are the one who called me out on it.  It would be extremely immature for me to run to the gym right now just to prove myself to you....but il do it if you put your screen name on the line and i take control of it  ...... if you decline or fail to give adequate excuse...you backed down... your MY bitch... i OWN you 

translation=you can't do it.

[Cap]

...did you see those pictures in Flex magazine perchance?

I've seen pictures of Arnold squatting with four plates, only to later see the same picture with five plates on the bar... only to then see video from which the photo was taken wherein Arnold is squatting only three plates (still good for a taller guy).

I believe Franco could row three plates with good form and Keith (onlyme) claims he has personally witnessed Franco rowing four plates... but Franco only rowed to his upper ab (okay if you have low lat attachments and short arms, but not optimal). A proper row with three plates is about as rare as a five hundred pound bench press... but everyone on GetBig benches five hundred.


The Luke

I've seen the pictures outside of Flex and the rows were not just done to the upper abs.  A five hundred pound bench isn't that rare anymore with gear and PL, plus the aid of Tap out gear.  Also consider than pulling is usually easier than pushing it's not hard to imagine someone rowing 315.

[The Luke]

I think these videos are proving my point...

Van_Bilderass is close, but seriously dude, if that's 250 then you'll probably only row 150 properly... I'd practice with 75 and then work up from 100.. but do it, it'll give you big lats really quick. Many of the guys I've shown how to do this don't bother doing anything else for their lats; it's that effective.

Let's start a campaign to bring back real old school training!

No one does any of these old-fashioned exercises properly any more... it's all big weights, poor form and steroids to make up the difference.

I've watched skinny guys doing piss poor flyes with 100 lb dumbbells, I felt embarrassed working-in on the bench to struggle doing flyes with 20 lb'ers. My only consolation is that my side chest pose is so impressive.

No one does rib-stretching any more... why? I added 9 inches to my chest measurement doing rib-stretchers and am now the only barrel chested gorilla looking dude in my family, both my brothers have slim builds whereas my chest measurement is nearly 80% of my standing height.

Rant over.



The Luke

[Van_Bilderass]

Glenn Pendlay explaining the row technique I posted videos of.

Rows: Well, the best way to do them is to start with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows.

This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curls…you always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak.

The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast. I have trained many people who could do this exercise with 350 or more lbs. I myself have done reps with 425, Ed Coan, who also knows how to do them properly, has done reps with over 500lbs without his back ever coming above parallel with the ground. That is stronger than Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman, by the way.

I did rows with Coleman once, actually, and I was far stronger than he was. He could not do more than 350lbs strictly although he could do over 500lbs by standing almost all the way up at the completion of each rep. Ed Coan is probably the strongest person on these, although one power-lifter I trained did manage 525 for a double done strictly.

Rows look at an anatomy chart. if the scapula and upper arms are held in a constant position, shortening of the lats WILL result in arching of the middle and upper back. i AM NOT saying that the lats are primarily responsible for upper back flexion... what i am saying is that they can assist in this.

i also HAVE done EMG work on various different rowing techniques... and there is not doubt that rows performed as i describe them will activate the lats more completely than done any other way i have ever seen. i have done EMG work on a large quantity of people for rows... and ive always found that these kind of rows activate the lats most completely. and besides, even if you dont buy the fact that they activate the lats better, hell, you can always be content with the fact that your getting an erector workout.

http://stronglifts.com/how-to-perform-the-pendlay-row-with-correct-technique/

[Van_Bilderass]

I think these videos are proving my point...

Van_Bilderass is close, but seriously dude, if that's 250 then you'll probably only row 150 properly... I'd practice with 75 and then work up from 100.. but do it, it'll give you big lats really quick. Many of the guys I've shown how to do this don't bother doing anything else for their lats; it's that effective.

Check my previous post. Do you think Ed Coan could row strictly with 500lbs?

[The Luke]

Check my previous post. Do you think Ed Coan could row strictly with 500lbs?

...yes I'd say Ed Coan could Pendlay row with 500 lbs as it seems the Pendlay row is simply a flat-backed version of what I do. Except that your video showed you pulling the bar straight to your upper stomach. When I say pull to the lower stomach I mean just that. I touch the bar to my upper thighs and that means pulling in an arc, which is much more difficult and requires keeping the elbows at your side.

So using your 250 lb rows as an example, Van Bilderass:
-start using an Ez-bar as this will help you clear your knees during the lift
-start using an arched back throughout the movement (that'll cost you about 75 lbs off the bar)
-start pulling to your lower stomach/upper thighs (that'll cost you another 50 lbs off the bar)
-don't let the bar rest on the ground (with an arched back your hang position will put the twenty plates about 6 inches or less off the ground)

..however, that strict movement with 125ish lbs will build significant muscle. More importantly, you will be able to "feel" your lats the same way that you feel your pecs while doing a bench press.

Just to show off my encyclopedic knowledge of all things iron... I'd hazard a guess that my projected 125 lb working row weight for Van_Bilderass is (as it should be) 40% of his current working deadlift weight, and approx 60% of your current working bench weight (assuming no imbalances).

Am I right??


The Luke

[Van_Bilderass]

...yes I'd say Ed Coan could Pendlay row with 500 lbs as it seems the Pendlay row is simply a flat-backed version of what I do. Except that your video showed you pulling the bar straight to your upper stomach. When I say pull to the lower stomach I mean just that. I touch the bar to my upper thighs and that means pulling in an arc, which is much more difficult and requires keeping the elbows at your side.

So using your 250 lb rows as an example, Van Bilderass:
-start using an Ez-bar as this will help you clear your knees during the lift
-start using an arched back throughout the movement (that'll cost you about 75 lbs off the bar)
-start pulling to your lower stomach/upper thighs (that'll cost you another 50 lbs off the bar)
-don't let the bar rest on the ground (with an arched back your hang position will put the twenty plates about 6 inches or less off the ground)

..however, that strict movement with 125ish lbs will build significant muscle. More importantly, you will be able to "feel" your lats the same way that you feel your pecs while doing a bench press.

Just to show off my encyclopedic knowledge of all things iron... I'd hazard a guess that my projected 125 lb working row weight for Van_Bilderass is (as it should be) 40% of his current working deadlift weight, and approx 60% of your current working bench weight (assuming no imbalances).

Am I right??


The Luke

I thought I made it clear in my post that that guy wasn't me. I just did a search on youtube for this variation. I'm stronger than that. I have pulled over 700. I don't know what I could row like that. I'll see in a few weeks.

Are you saying that the variation you talk about is the best lat exercise? Glenn claims his is the best, also according to EMG studies.

[Camel Jockey]

5 plates for like 6-8.. I tried 6 but it dragged me down and almost broke my back. 

[The Luke]

I thought I made it clear in my post that that guy wasn't me. I just did a search on youtube for this variation. I'm stronger than that. I have pulled over 700. I don't know what I could row like that. I'll see in a few weeks.

Are you saying that the variation you talk about is the best lat exercise? Glenn claims his is the best, also according to EMG studies.

Sorry for the confusion Van_Bilerass, my mistuke.

Never heard of EMG studies (assume it's similar to a NMR scan?), but claiming a straight pull is THE most effective lat exercise means you've simply never done a proper arc. Anyone with a basic understanding of anatomy knows the lats don't fully contract unless the back is arched as they act as the antagonistic muscles for the pectorals.

A good row isn't simply the inverse of a bench press... it's the inverse as reflected in the plane of the inflated ribcage when the back is arched... a subtle yet crucial difference.


The Luke

[Tombo]

I'm guessing you are using a machine t-bar set-up? On a lot of machines you can't pull close to the body, which is what puts the lower back in a poor position. But try to stand as close to the bar as possible and arch you back throughout the movement.

nah i find a corner, an olypmic barbell and a v-grip

i can't breathe on the machine set-ups