Author Topic: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !  (Read 10100 times)

gh15

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2007, 01:03:30 PM »
Drugs can be used by whomever wants to use them.  It's more than true, though, that everything evolves-even tastes...and there isn't a person on this board that can honestly say to themselves that the taste of the general public isn't more geared to the WAY smaller, more athletic looking build.  Even though our current champ is still among the mass monsters, I think even the drug sport is showing major signs of evolution-and most of these signs are due to the fact that, whatever you want to blame it on, IFBB bodybuilders are dying-or, at the very least, someone is in the hospital every two seconds(or prison).  
  Maybe in the near future, competitive bbing is just going to die out...I don't know, but I know it's not going to keep going in this same direction.  The athletes being the way they are right now is not so much the problem as it is a symptom of the problem.  The problem is the audience's lust for freakiness.  The solution, and I see this being realized as we speak, is the fact that that lust is being or even has been fufilled now.  People's tastes have changed.  Even the biggest fans of IFBB bodybuilding dislike today's bodybuilding and bodybuilders-just check out this forum any time of the day, any day of the week-you'll never find a more hateful group of 'fans' for a sport or hobby or whatever you want to call it.  
  Bottom line, the truth or the best path makes itself known in all areas of life.  And this one is no different.  People hating on drug users need to calm down and other people's decisions, and drug users and their fans whining about the lack of appeal of the smaller physiques need to open up their minds a little bit and stop looking at bodybuilding as a their way to make up for something lacking in their lives.

all good and nice,,all lovely language,,ll interesting for books ,,
the reality is that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GENETICS,,most of bodybuilders cant even pass the 6 feet height  and many of them are arms only,,it is THE RESPONSE TO HORMONES THAT MAKES YOU A BODYBUILDER ,,many naturals are way stronger than bodybuilder on hormone,,BUT ITS THE RESPONSE TO HORMONES AND SADLU OTHER DRUGS THAT MAKE YOU A PROFESSIONAL ,,,it is HOW MUCH RISK YOU WILLING TO TAKE TO YOUR HEALTH INORDER TO BECOME A PRO OR EVEN NATIONAL COMPETITOR,,

EVERY ONE CAN PLACE TOP 10 NATIONALS BODYBUILDING COMPETITOON,, ANY ONE AND EVERY ONE ,,from dady wady to sevastase to squadfather to  alexx to donky to anyone i remember their name and to ones i forgot,,

if that moderator from this board mindspan jad the mega doses approach todrugs that jason or lee had or ken had ,,he too would be able to be top 10 o and compete for the title or at the least a professional,, but he would be top o competitor because he has what professional bodybuilding uniqely want to call muscle shape..and that would put him at high level professional competition rather than only a professional card holder,,,

so there you have it,,,anyone can be a professional and any one with muscle shape can e top professional,,i can assure you that out of this board at the least 100 guys could look better than palumbo and actually win a show if they were willing to do the  crimes and risk to health that palumbo took

the problem bodybuildnig has is enourmous and nothing can change because the moment you change it ....there is no more bodybulding,,gh15 tells you that the average gym rat that doesnt even look like he can win state show in usa is on lots of goods,,the top amatuer and profesional are on double and triple that and all legit too + better responds but every one is on there is no natural as of end of 2007 begining 2008
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timfogarty

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2007, 01:43:47 PM »
The athletes being the way they are right now is not so much the problem as it is a symptom of the problem.  The problem is the audience's lust for freakiness. 

yet, attendance at both amateur and pro contests are way down.   the problem is with the judging.  no one wants to go back to the 1950s, but stop rewarding distended bellies and grainy skin.

Quote
Also think of how the bbers back in the day, totally natural or low dose early AAS users, all tended to look a lot bigger and stronger than the naturals of today. 

examples please.  You have to go back to the early 1950s to find totally natural or low dose bodybuilders.

Swedish Viking

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2007, 01:50:08 PM »
those are the ones I'm talking about-the guys from the 50's and before...Pearl, Reeves, Dilinger(sp?), Clarence Ross, even draper...etc.  Those guys are all more impressive than nearly all of the natural physiques today-excluding their conditioning.  I think that makes natural bodybuilding one of the few activities that it could be argued actually REGRESSED!  Maybe some of those guys were using-definitely Drapes, but not even in the realm of today.  It's all got to go though.  With every additional variable, conclusive results become and harder and harder to draw.  I'd love to see a whole field of research dedicated to athletes who all eat the same thing, who all eat the same things, who all do the same things day in and day out, and who all sleep roughly the same amount.  Then we would have a good base of knowledge.  I know that is hard to do though...and even harder to fund!

timfogarty

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2007, 01:57:47 PM »
those are the ones I'm talking about-the guys from the 50's and before...Pearl, Reeves, Dilinger(sp?), Clarence Ross, even draper...etc. 

Reeves was natural while he competed.  The others were not.

There is an article in Strength and Health about Delinger, already a national level bodybuilder, going out to California the summer before his Mr America win to go train at Yarick's gym in Oakland, and coming back 30 pounds heavier.

bigdumbbell

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2007, 01:57:58 PM »
i adore the look of bill pearl what was he on?  ha

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2007, 01:58:20 PM »
what is surprising to me is that the IFBB doesn't have a phony drug test system in place like all the other pro sports...

That way they could suspend anyone who gets out of line just by having them test hot...

Just imagine the meltdowns that Lee Priest would have had when he continuing came up positive...That would have made great theater...Or nail a guy like Derek Farnsworth just for the fuck of it...

Most of these guys are cherry picked to do well anyways, why not just go all out and get some positive tests out there...It would be great for the message boards...

timfogarty

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2007, 02:02:29 PM »
i adore the look of bill pearl what was he on?  ha

same as everyone else in the late 50s and 60s:  dbol

Swedish Viking

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2007, 02:03:21 PM »
Reeves was natural while he competed.  The others were not.

There is an article in Strength and Health about Delinger, already a national level bodybuilder, going out to California the summer before his Mr America win to go train at Yarick's gym in Oakland, and coming back 40 pounds heavier.

alright, well let's say that's true-although, I'm not convinced it is...even if it is-the other 'natural' bbers of today that are using even more than whatever those guys were using still don't look as good.  Again, with the exception of their conditioning.  But that is really the weaker part of my first argument-you may be right, they might all have been using.  The point I'm trying to make is that without drugs or SUPPS, people are forced to build a physique with good food and proper amounts of sleep-which are far fewer variables and easier to control and monitor than what we have now. 
 

timfogarty

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2007, 02:08:13 PM »
The point I'm trying to make is that without drugs or SUPPS, people are forced to build a physique with good food and proper amounts of sleep-which are far fewer variables and easier to control and monitor than what we have now.

I agree that people today don't train as well as they use to, but the reason is they don't need to with GH and insulin, not anabolic steroids. 

Swedish Viking

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2007, 02:09:37 PM »
alright, but those two things still fall under the umbrella of drugs and supps, imo.  I should have said 'drugs' instead of steroids.

timfogarty

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2007, 02:17:02 PM »
alright, but those two things still fall under the umbrella of drugs and supps, imo.  I should have said 'drugs' instead of steroids.

but you're idolizing the past, using the top bodybuilders of the time as examples of what could be accomplished naturally.  but they weren't natural. 

Camel Jockey

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2007, 02:25:25 PM »
gh15 is right.

Drugs make bodybuilding.. Sorry, that's just the truth.

Swedish Viking

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2007, 02:36:34 PM »
gh15 is right.

Drugs make bodybuilding.. Sorry, that's just the truth.

that's not the truth, but that's the kind of comment that is made because of exactly what I have already said.  Who is to know that that isn't the truth if we haven't actually had truly drug or supp free bodybuilding for...coming on 60 years.  Most everyone is convinced, now, because of the infiltration of drugs and supps that dramatic gains without them are impossible, and in some cases, even worse, that GAINS AT ALL are impossible.
  And as I said before, if they were all on, then you're right.  But I'm not convinced they were.  Dbol was introduced in the mid to late 50s-it doesn't mean that everyone at the time started taking.  For the most part, those guys either deny entirely or admit to very low dosage.  I believe them.  You don't have to.  As far as them making great gains in short periods of time, that doesn't mean they are on-that just means that they made great gains in a short period of time.  Everyone has those periods-and they were the cream of the crop at the time.  But like I said before, that argument is my secondary argument.  What I said prior is more important. 

musclehedz

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2007, 02:37:34 PM »
IFBB needs very strict drug-tests on every pro-bodybuilder and contest right now to save this industry !

IFBB and Governor Arnold must start drug-tests at Arnold Classic March 1st 2008.

If they don’t do that , I wonder not just Hidetada Yamagishi be arrested .

more pro-bodybuilders will be caught in the future.


Have you been sleeping for the last 20 years?
 
A lot of sports are tested, but with enough cash you can pass ANY drug test. Some doping doctors make organizations like WADA look like fools. They are years ahead of doping tests.

Pro sports need MORE drugs.

timfogarty

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2007, 02:50:11 PM »
Dbol was introduced in the mid to late 50s-it doesn't mean that everyone at the time started taking.

all the top guys were.  and test esters were available to the elite athletes in the 1940s.

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For the most part, those guys either deny entirely or admit to very low dosage.  I believe them.

low dose is not natural.   an athlete taking 200 mg/week has a big advantage over someone who is not, especially as you get older.

back in the 1930s and 40s, bodybuilding was a very young man's sport.  25 was considered at one's peak.  30 was old.  35 was very old.  that's because you still have all that natural adolescent testosterone in your early 20s.   There were very few top level competition bodybuilders in their late 20s or early 30s.   the availability of AS changed all that.

Paul, you're so keen on natural bodybuilding because at 25 you can still see gains.   Come talk to us in 10 years.

Swedish Viking

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2007, 03:01:42 PM »
haha, I am DEFINITELY not claiming that low dose is natural-I am trying to put things in perspective though.  Low dose is considered natural by today's standards, and it's today's standards that I am trying to compare the bbers of old too.  Today's natural, I would say, is actually defined more closely as bbers who are using everything but GH, Insulin, and Test.  I'm also suggesting that rather than just assume everyone from the late '50s and early '60s is lying through their teeth(when they don't have a lot of reason to anymore) that we at least entertain the idea of giving them the benefit of the doubt if they say they haven't used.   

And what can I say to that?  I'm 25, there's not much I can do about it.  I'm not going to keep my mouth shut until I'm 35; if I did that every 45 year old out there would tell me to wait until I was their age.  In fact, when I was 15, the 25 year olds were saying the same thing. 

   Like I said before, I not against drug use; I am PRO drug and supp free bodybuilding.  People can use drugs and do whatever they want to their bodies-if you aren't allowed to act, it is very hard to learn.  I don't think drugs have ruined the sport, I think drugs have taught us all a lesson on how not to lead our lives-so if anything, they've helped us.

musclehedz

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2007, 03:06:53 PM »
IFBB needs very strict drug-tests on every pro-bodybuilder and contest right now to save this industry !

IFBB and Governor Arnold must start drug-tests at Arnold Classic March 1st 2008.

If they don’t do that , I wonder not just Hidetada Yamagishi be arrested .

more pro-bodybuilders will be caught in the future.


You could use some steroids too "Mr Taiwan" If you trained for 35 years and look like this you are doing something terribly wrong.




maybe some HRT? 


timfogarty

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2007, 03:08:50 PM »
And what can I say to that?  I'm 25, there's not much I can do about it.  I'm not going to keep my mouth shut until I'm 35; if I did that every 45 year old out there would tell me to wait until I was their age.  In fact, when I was 15, the 25 year olds were saying the same thing. 
...
I not against drug use; I am PRO drug and supp free bodybuilding.

my point was you enjoy lifting weights because you see results.  but you're reaching your natural limit and it will become harder to just stay where you are.   you'll want to continue to make progress.  my guess is that in 5-10 years you'll have tried AS.

Swedish Viking

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2007, 03:13:40 PM »
you are right about that-I am not growing the way I used to.  I would be really suprised though if I looked into a crystal ball and saw myself using AS at anytime in the future, especially given the life I have led for the last several years.

The Luke

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2007, 03:14:28 PM »
One thing that hasn't been considered is that someone like Schwarzenegger might decide to do a big scale natural show...

That would necessitate:
-regular (weekly) BLOOD testing of all competitors, for all substances for a YEAR before the contest
-concurrent regular random testing, unannounced on-the-spot BLOOD testing
-ultrasound scanning of athletes for site-injections
-proper judging standards without the emphasis on emaciated conditioning, but with an emphasis on proper classical posing

The only drawback would be the prohibitive cost of such private testing.... tens of thousands per athlete per week.

BUT... and it's a big but... a government body, such as say the Presidents Council on Fitness could bypass such costs by utilising a government lab. The governor of a prosperous state desperate to distance himself from the steroid issue for example could easily spearhead such an event.

I recently spoke with a few geneticists regarding DNA testing (in relation to my... ahem, interest in hominology), and I found that the cost versus price disparity can be substantial. For example, phylogenetic  species identification by amplification of mtDNA recovered from scat and hair (the testing I was inquiring about) runs about $2,000 per sample...

The cost to the lab? About $50 per sample, plus the time of the technician.

Mass spectroscopy testing (steroid testing) is similarly disproportionately expensive relative to the costs involved (at least when using private labs that must recoup their equipment costs). 

With enough political will behind it the Arnold Classic could be a legitimate natural contest for less than a quarter million dollars... I'd hazard a guess that such expenditure could easily be recouped by the increase in public/sponsorship interest.


The Luke 

timfogarty

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2007, 04:09:38 PM »
I'd hazard a guess that such expenditure could easily be recouped by the increase in public/sponsorship interest.

there would be no increase in interest, and probably a decrease.   there are plenty of natural (or pseudo-natural) bodybuilding contests out there, both at the amateur and pro levels.  the fans aren't rushing out to see them.    yes, pro bodybuilding has lost many of its fans because of the bloated stomachs and conditioning.  but fans don't want to go back to the 50s, especially when they'll continue to be able to see steroided out guys at their local gym.   Late 70s physiques might bring them back to the theaters, though.

gh15

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2007, 05:16:28 PM »
all the top guys were.  and test esters were available to the elite athletes in the 1940s.

low dose is not natural.   an athlete taking 200 mg/week has a big advantage over someone who is not, especially as you get older.

back in the 1930s and 40s, bodybuilding was a very young man's sport.  25 was considered at one's peak.  30 was old.  35 was very old.  that's because you still have all that natural adolescent testosterone in your early 20s.   There were very few top level competition bodybuilders in their late 20s or early 30s.   the availability of AS changed all that.

Paul, you're so keen on natural bodybuilding because at 25 you can still see gains.   Come talk to us in 10 years.

why 10 years? he will start at age 27-28 like many other gym members that want superior body among  every day little town usa ussr sweden uk etc etc,,,most of the non competetive guys around the world (EXLUDING USA) start at ages 27-28 mostly for the girl to take notice and to be physically big muscular male that attracts female attention no matter what,,and if they have brain they get those females with no problems,,in usa iti s a big diff for the average age of hormone user is 21 year old for non competetive and 18-19 for competetive as of 2007,,in usa it is big problem  most none competetive do it for female attraction reasons and inorder to get hhot and attractive females that are as insecure as the hormone user,,and that is the main problem

in usa the starting age is so young,, and in many cases not for competition reasons,,that those kids ruin their lives straight out ,,at the begginign they are looking big and swole with many spotting quality to their muscle because they seriously try to train and train as serious as they take hormones but it doesnt work for long time,,it always fall big time when you start that young for the wrong reasons and you always end up looking worse than when you started especially if you dont have training as first priority,,

the reason many american kids look so big and beefy is hormones and not genetics,,their so called genetics is FAT ,,big and fat are 2 diff things although are very easily confused in usa,,big should always happen at 10% bodyfat and not even 1% higher,,if you are 200 or 220lb at 15-20% you are not big you are fat and that is where many of the 20 year old kids on hormjones sit
fallen angel

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2007, 05:21:15 PM »
The Pro BB Industry is already a complete joke to the mainstream.......there is nothing to save..
K

bodybuildermdpitt

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2007, 05:26:13 PM »
"so dont come here and throw send in those kids faces with yoru 10 posts and sophisticated name,,here they dont buy it ,,smart kids are on this board andt ehre is lots of truth behind their "cruelty in posts",,you also know that everyone in the fuckin bodybuilding industry reads their posts and read gh15 respons and wanna shoot gh15 in the head for saying the truth,,so dont come here and talk out of your asshole"

Looks like a hit a nerve with you gh. the only difference between me and "the kids," is that I understand and know the bullshit you feed to this board. Nobody wants to shoot you in the head for saying the truth, because the so called science you preach is BULLSHIT, plain and simple.

"only blood test works ,,and only blood test taken in specific times will show clean not natural but clean bodybuilder,"

This is another prime example of your lack of knowledge. Do you know how long it takes for FSH and LH to affect the production of testosterone via leydig cells in the testis? Using these two values, you can very easily tell if someone has used over the last couple months. But you already knew this  ;)

the gamazine MD is at ENOURMOUS RISK,,you have hired more than couple felons and crooks that bringing bodybuilding down,,you are drugs addict and rely on narcotics and on my dead body you will ruin bodybuiling ,,you can use nice language and highly sophisticated american englsih or british english ,,it wont matter when the dea knock your doors out their axis and close you up ,,its a matter of tie till you stay with no magazine because you are stupid ,,strupid people who dont know when hormone stops and narcotics begin,,you are ADDICTS,,the american goverment doesnt even have to close you up they can take half your stuff one by one that sits on us grounds and eliminate your scam in 100 days starting now,,when and where is their choice not gh15s,,can be now tomorrow in 30 days and in a year but it will happen the way you going

I do not work for MD, nor I suscribe to their magazine. My MD refers to my medical doctorate. I don't care what people say about anabolics, as long as it is scienticially sound. However, you again and again state absurd statements which send the sentiment that one can not have a good physique without taking insulin, GH, and anabolics. I personally believe that you are a 3rd class dealer who is trying to rile up business by preaching falsehoods on forums. This sentiment needs to be changed in the bodybuilding world, and once it does, then and only then will the IFBB feel the need to change. To get rid of this sentiment, so called gurus/dealers/idiots like you gh need to be distanced from this sport.

cheers,

bodybuildermdpitt

gh15

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Re: IFBB needs to start drug-tests all pro contest now !
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2007, 05:45:56 PM »
"so dont come here and throw send in those kids faces with yoru 10 posts and sophisticated name,,here they dont buy it ,,smart kids are on this board andt ehre is lots of truth behind their "cruelty in posts",,you also know that everyone in the fuckin bodybuilding industry reads their posts and read gh15 respons and wanna shoot gh15 in the head for saying the truth,,so dont come here and talk out of your asshole"

Looks like a hit a nerve with you gh. the only difference between me and "the kids," is that I understand and know the bullshit you feed to this board. Nobody wants to shoot you in the head for saying the truth, because the so called science you preach is BULLSHIT, plain and simple.

"only blood test works ,,and only blood test taken in specific times will show clean not natural but clean bodybuilder,"

This is another prime example of your lack of knowledge. Do you know how long it takes for FSH and LH to affect the production of testosterone via leydig cells in the testis? Using these two values, you can very easily tell if someone has used over the last couple months. But you already knew this  ;)

the gamazine MD is at ENOURMOUS RISK,,you have hired more than couple felons and crooks that bringing bodybuilding down,,you are drugs addict and rely on narcotics and on my dead body you will ruin bodybuiling ,,you can use nice language and highly sophisticated american englsih or british english ,,it wont matter when the dea knock your doors out their axis and close you up ,,its a matter of tie till you stay with no magazine because you are stupid ,,strupid people who dont know when hormone stops and narcotics begin,,you are ADDICTS,,the american goverment doesnt even have to close you up they can take half your stuff one by one that sits on us grounds and eliminate your scam in 100 days starting now,,when and where is their choice not gh15s,,can be now tomorrow in 30 days and in a year but it will happen the way you going

I do not work for MD, nor I suscribe to their magazine. My MD refers to my medical doctorate. I don't care what people say about anabolics, as long as it is scienticially sound. However, you again and again state absurd statements which send the sentiment that one can not have a good physique without taking insulin, GH, and anabolics. I personally believe that you are a 3rd class dealer who is trying to rile up business by preaching falsehoods on forums. This sentiment needs to be changed in the bodybuilding world, and once it does, then and only then will the IFBB feel the need to change. To get rid of this sentiment, so called gurus/dealers/idiots like you gh need to be distanced from this sport.

cheers,

bodybuildermdpitt

20 posts to you name,,md,,high language,,sounds like the luke with the high language,,those things dont work on gh15,, mds know nothing about hormones,,have no clue about anything to do with hormones,,they dont understand anything to do with use of hormones and their sides so you lost me at the md,,theories are good for books my friend,,

now ,,more than likley you are someome like palumbo if not palumbo himself,,you are a walking criminal with long past of felonies saying about other person he is a dealer when in reality that person can bust your ass in a matter of hours,,99% youre another of those milos nd palumbo md type of team that walking criminals and fellons on us grounds,,you will get out of bodybuilding i assure you that ,,you will,,even if this is the last thing on earth gh15 does for bodybuilding future sake
mark and date you fellon and dont even try to answer because youre dismissed
fallen angel