Author Topic: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....  (Read 1869 times)

Deicide

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Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« on: December 31, 2007, 08:33:27 PM »
Recently there have been a lot of deadlift posts here. I am curious as to technique because most bang the weight on the ground and this seems to create momentum going upwards. I try to stabilise it before and I don't hit the ground, maybe an inch or two off the floor. The other thing is that I learnt that you need to keep your arms straight and your elbows locked at all times; in a recent deadlift thread the gentleman was moving his arms about like crazy. What are your opinions on this? Is there truly a traditional, proper form?
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gtbro1

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2007, 08:37:18 PM »
That is because there is a running joke on this board about TA claiming to do 113 reps with 225 in under 5 minutes...been going on forever and some how the guys decided to have a caontest to see who could get the most reps off in 3 minutes with 225. They are trying for the most reps not actually "deadlifting" as part of their workout as they normally would

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2007, 08:39:54 PM »
That is because there is a running joke on this board about TA claiming to do 113 reps with 225 in under 5 minutes...been going on forever and some how the guys decided to have a caontest to see who could get the most reps off in 3 minutes with 225. They are trying for the most reps not actually "deadlifting" as part of their workout as they normally would


Maybe, but this still doesn't answer my questions about technique and form?!
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dov

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2008, 06:08:58 AM »
a true deadlift means to lift "DEAD" weight off the floor...not bouncing it and using monentum...I use the "tap and go" method in my warm up sets...once I get to my work sets, I use the true style..I feel it's very dangerous to stop short of touching the floor with the weight..this puts tremendous pressure on the lower back..I would suggest to lift the weight and then set it down fully and then lift it again..therefore you would truely lift the weight 10 times instead of truely lifting one rep and then bouncing 9 reps...oh yeah, the arms should be extended throughout the entire range of motion

Montague

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2008, 11:23:26 AM »
IMO, if you’re able to stop the bar short of touching the ground & reverse the direction of the movement, you may not be using enough weight to effectively work ALL of the back muscles.

Iron doesn’t bounce that far.
I’ve never let that small amount of “momentum” deter me from using the touch and go method. I certainly think it’s safer than what you are doing now, especially if & when you eventually increase the weight.

And if momentum concerns you that much, then do as dov mentions – let the bar come to a complete stop before each rep. This will make every rep the same with no room for “cheating.”

And do keep your arms straight. Elbow flexion during heavier DL may invite bicipital tears.


ngm21084

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2008, 02:56:52 PM »
what grip do you guys use i have been using double over hand but i read about having  mixed grip...wondering what the consensus is...

Montague

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2008, 03:54:09 PM »
Over & under, or pinch grip – whatever you want to call it.
I’ve tried a double pronated grip but found it uncomfortable.

I think I read that Vic Martinez uses both hands over to ensure even stress on the back during execution.
Lee Priest does partials with the same.

A pinch grip may allow you to handle a bit more weight.


ngm21084

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2008, 03:56:58 PM »
yea...i just like the double over and honestly when i hit the heavy sets i use straps so holding the wieght is never an issue..if i dont use straps and start to lose the wieght it distracts me and then i dont concentrate and form goes down....i was just wondering what you guys thought..

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2008, 04:09:13 AM »
A pinch grip may allow you to handle a bit more weight.


It does. I've started using pinch grip when I decided to loose the straps. Altough I try to alternate over/under hand in every set.

I've also had my max go little higher after a long stall by totally elimating the bounce. Now it more like doing 5x1rep in row rather than set of 5 reps.
Figured it would work cause i could usually get 3-4 reps if I get the first one.

And to my suprise, it has worked.

jpm101

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2008, 09:21:25 AM »
If your a purest than start each rep from a dead stop at the bottom. Allowing a true 1 to 2 second pause while the bar is on the floor, insuring a real dead stop. Same can be applied to the bench press. If your like most lifters you will use the touch and go system, relying on momentum at the bottom of the lift. Dead stop lifts will help increase the natural pull off the floor in a regular DL. Some guy's find this their weaker position. Again, same idea with the dead stop bench press.

If you have used rubber/bumper plates, than a greater rebound from the floor will be gained. Your going to use a lot more weight that way. Is than considered cheating? I do not believe so, just another form of working out. I would also bet that your going to gain more body mass and strength than ever before.

A older method, a lot of very massive strong men did in the past, was bouncing  the plates off of heavy planks (probably a couple of 2X6's, 2X8's, etc) for DL training. There was also a devise called a Hooper (AKA the Hopper Lift), also made from heavy wood planks (usually bolted of lag nutted together), that really increased the bottom bounce. The lifter would "catch" the weigh as it can up to around just above knee height. A lot of very heavy weight could be moved that way. In most versions of this older DL training, higher reps were used. 15, 20 or more reps.   Somewhat akin to a breathing squat form of working out, with very heavy weight and higher reps. Good Luck.
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Montague

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2008, 09:49:08 AM »
...a greater rebound from the floor will be gained. Your going to use a lot more weight that way. Is than considered cheating? I do not believe so, just another form of working out. I would also bet that your going to gain more body mass and strength than ever before.

That is one of the points I was getting at – a weight light enough to enable you to stop short of touching at the bottom is probably not enough to effectively work the entire back.
You’re really limiting the gains you can make.

But, to each his own.

Devon97

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2008, 03:35:49 PM »
It is perfectly ok to  drop the weight like a sack of rocks letting it Bang on the floor then using the "bounce" to "heave" it up with a flexed thorasic spine and protracted shoulder blades... AS LONG AS>..... you are using over 600lbs. That way when someone questions your technique you can just say " Lets see you lift that much!"

Sadly enough there are people on this board who truely embrace this mentality.

dov

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Re: Deadlifts, banging on the ground and momentum....
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2008, 04:02:20 PM »
I use a double overhanded grip..just a personal preference :-\