TO ALL IFBB PROS

[G o a t b o y]

Q Bob and his bullshit about the IFBB has the same rules about competing in other orgs as the NFL....   There is a huge difference there Robert, what is the base pay for an NFL player compared to the base pay of a bodybuilder?  Suddenly you don't want to compare them, huh?

Actually, the NFL has no such rule.  Let's say a player is a free agent, and has a contract with the Steelers that ends after the 2007 season.  If that player then goes and plays in the CFL for the 2008 season, no problem.  If he gets hired by the Chargers for the 2009 season, again no problem... the NFL doesn't "blackball" him because he played or another league in 08.

[240 is Back]

Actually, the NFL has no such rule.  Let's say a player is a free agent, and has a contract with the Steelers that ends after the 2007 season.  If that player then goes and plays in the CFL for the 2008 season, no problem.  If he gets hired by the Chargers for the 2009 season, again no problem... the NFL doesn't "blackball" him because he played or another league in 08.

Interesting.  As a result of this, the NFL is able to have the best talent in the world on their fields each year.  Any tie-ups with "You played with them, so you can't play for us" would simply water down the quality of the NFL games we see.

Are IFBB shows watered down because bodybuilders the caliber of Priest, Sami, and Frey cannot compete?

[chaos]

Actually, the NFL has no such rule.  Let's say a player is a free agent, and has a contract with the Steelers that ends after the 2007 season.  If that player then goes and plays in the CFL for the 2008 season, no problem.  If he gets hired by the Chargers for the 2009 season, again no problem... the NFL doesn't "blackball" him because he played or another league in 08.

Funny, I thought Bob used the NFL as an example of a person couldn't go from one league to another.....


At any rate, my statement stands, he is the face of the company,  not the BBers.

[Chick]

Actually, the NFL has no such rule.  Let's say a player is a free agent, and has a contract with the Steelers that ends after the 2007 season.  If that player then goes and plays in the CFL for the 2008 season, no problem.  If he gets hired by the Chargers for the 2009 season, again no problem... the NFL doesn't "blackball" him because he played or another league in 08.

Lets take your example....Lee is a free agent and can go "play" for whoever he wants...

You canot play for the Vikings and Steelers at the same time, nor the European league and NFL at the same time...

One difference (amongst many) is that there are numerous teams to go play for, there is basically one in our sport...

Lets use your example in more detail:

Free agent X gets let go by the Steelers, go's and plays for the CFL, tries to come back to the Steelers, refuses a offer of $XXX, then cries foul they dont keep making him offers again and again...

Game over

Time to find another team...the Steelers arent inerested anymore.

[Matt C]

Lee is an idiot.  Hope this helps.

Fixed.  No need to say more.

[TrueGrit]

Fixed.  No need to say more.

 

[timfogarty]

X gets let go by the Steelers, go's and plays for the CFL, tries to come back to the Steelers, refuses a offer of $XXX, then cries foul they dont keep making him offers again and again...

sorry, the masses aren't buying it. 

[SirTraps]

If the nfl commissioner owned all the teams and was a double-dealing poof then the comparison would be valid.

            hope this helps

       

[G o a t b o y]

Lets take your example....Lee is a free agent and can go "play" for whoever he wants...

You canot play for the Vikings and Steelers at the same time, nor the European league and NFL at the same time...

One difference (amongst many) is that there are numerous teams to go play for, there is basically one in our sport...

Lets use your example in more detail:

Free agent X gets let go by the Steelers, go's and plays for the CFL, tries to come back to the Steelers, refuses a offer of $XXX, then cries foul they dont keep making him offers again and again...

Game over

Time to find another team...the Steelers arent inerested anymore.

That's just it, you're using the wrong analogy...  the IFBB isn't the team (Steelers), they're the league (NFL).  The teams would be the supplement companies (BSN, Muscletech, etc.).  These are the guys that actually "hire" and PAY the bodybuilders, not the IFBB. 

What has happened in Lee's case would be like the football player going and playing in the CFL in '08, and the NFL (not the teams) saying he can't play in '09 because of it.  The teams can't hire him even if they want to, because the leauge isn't letting him play, because they're jealous insecure bastards.  The league is not the employer, yet you keep using incorrect employer/employee analogies.

[Chick]

The whole debacle with Priest competing for PDI....never once on this board did I read you saying "Yes, he should be able to make money no matter the organization" Instead you spouted the company motto "Deal with it or don't compete here".

That's because I dont necesarily agree with that, so why would I say it?

I don't understand how IFBB can support these guys dealing drugs, doing g4p, stripping and doing whatever else they need to do to make ends meet, yet they are going to "punish" someone that wants to compete in an org. that they know is no threat to them.

THey don't "support them"...they basically cant do anything about it without infringing on rights.

Q Bob and his bullshit about the IFBB has the same rules about competing in other orgs as the NFL....   There is a huge difference there Robert, what is the base pay for an NFL player compared to the base pay of a bodybuilder?  Suddenly you don't want to compare them, huh?

I didn't bring up the comparison...but the two are two different types of sports. In the IFBB, you dont get a base pay, you get opportunity and doors opened to you otherwise notfound.

[240 is Back]

Lets take your example....Lee is a free agent and can go "play" for whoever he wants...

You canot play for the Vikings and Steelers at the same time, nor the European league and NFL at the same time...

One difference (amongst many) is that there are numerous teams to go play for, there is basically one in our sport...

Lets use your example in more detail:

Free agent X gets let go by the Steelers, go's and plays for the CFL, tries to come back to the Steelers, refuses a offer of $XXX, then cries foul they dont keep making him offers again and again...
Game over
Time to find another team...the Steelers arent inerested anymore.

You're comparing TEAM sports with INDIVIDUAL sports, Bob.

Pro golfers and tennis players are able to compete in any competitive events they want, in order to make money.  You're using a distractor here - the "team" competitive issue when there is none. &guy Woods can play any PGA event, then he can go play a Disney tournament or Japan Playoff, or any network event, etc.  Michelle Wie can do an LPGA event, then go to Dubai and play in a Million dollar event for the Sheiks, then play a charity event.

Hell, would any IFBB bodybuilder be BANNED from the IFBB for doing a CHARITY event?  If they did a bodybuilding show for NO MONEY - where the proceeds went to a good charity?

I stay out of this argument, but using team sports to argue an individual sport is shaky, Bob.

[Chick]

That's just it, you're using the wrong analogy...  the IFBB isn't the team (Steelers), they're the league (NFL).  The teams would be the supplement companies (BSN, Muscletech, etc.).  These are the guys that actually "hire" and PAY the bodybuilders, not the IFBB. 

What has happened in Lee's case would be like the football player going and playing in the CFL in '08, and the NFL (not the teams) saying he can't play in '09 because of it.  The teams can't hire him even if they want to, because the leauge isn't letting him play, because they're jealous insecure bastards.  The league is not the employer, yet you keep using incorrect employer/employee analogies.

Well, it works in this case bacause "The League" only has ONE team....and the supplement companies are sponsors, not owners, or teams.

[240 is Back]

sorry, the masses aren't buying it. 

Yeah, Bob, you're being dishonest here.

You should either be honest, and say "Lee burned the IFBB so he's banned for life", or just not address it.

You're insulting the intelligence of people trying to explain the team analogy.  People are often more upset when they're lied to or talked down to, than they would be just being given the facts.  

[Chick]

You're comparing TEAM sports with INDIVIDUAL sports, Bob.

Pro golfers and tennis players are able to compete in any competitive events they want, in order to make money.  You're using a distractor here - the "team" competitive issue when there is none. &guy Woods can play any PGA event, then he can go play a Disney tournament or Japan Playoff, or any network event, etc.  Michelle Wie can do an LPGA event, then go to Dubai and play in a Million dollar event for the Sheiks, then play a charity event.

Hell, would any IFBB bodybuilder be BANNED from the IFBB for doing a CHARITY event?  If they did a bodybuilding show for NO MONEY - where the proceeds went to a good charity?

I stay out of this argument, but using team sports to argue an individual sport is shaky, Bob.

Granted, but I didn't bring it up...someone else did.

[Chick]

Yeah, Bob, you're being dishonest here.

You should either be honest, and say "Lee burned the IFBB so he's banned for life", or just not address it.

You're insulting the intelligence of people trying to explain the team analogy.  People are often more upset when they're lied to or talked down to, than they would be just being given the facts.  

He did burn them by refusing their offer to come back when HE requested it...after that, they didn't see any need to make any more offers. I've never stated anything different...burned, slighted, duped, pick whatever word you wish...same principle.

[240 is Back]

Would any IFBB bodybuilder be BANNED from the IFBB for doing a CHARITY event?  If they did a bodybuilding show for NO MONEY - where the proceeds went to a good charity?

Bob, I notice you didn't answer that.

Suppose Tre, Tim Fogarty, or some other bodybuilding afficianado with a big heart put on a charity bodybuilding event the Thursday before the Olympia.  

THere would be no prize money, but for every IFBB pro that showed up for this contest, $1000 would be given to the American Cancer Society.   A Bodybuilding Pledge show, to be clear.

Would the IFBB pros who showed up to donate their time to this event be banned from the IFBB?

[G o a t b o y]

Well, it works in this case bacause "The League" only has ONE team....and the supplement companies are sponsors, not owners, or teams.

No it doesn't, because the "team" would be an employer who pays a salary. The IFBB doesn't pay these guys shit, which is the whole point.  I have no problem with an employer who pays a legit salary making whatever rule they want...  paying the salary gives then that right.  The IFBB, however, has not earned that right, since they don't pay these guys jack shit.  Their employers are the supplement companies.

[Has Beens]

I have not followed Lee`s situation since the initial ban. What exactly did the IFBB offer him that he rebuked ?

[G o a t b o y]

I have not followed Lee`s situation since the initial ban. What exactly did the IFBB offer him that he rebuked ?

He was already comitted to doing the PDI shows which were to be held before his suspension was over.  The IFBB came to him and said "We'll let you back in early if you break your contracts and skip out on the PDI shows".  Lee said "I need to honor my contracts, I'll just wait until my suspension is over".  Then when his suspension was over, the IFBB said, "so sorry... we're not letting you back in".

Basically, they screwed him.

[chaos]

So, Chick, you don't believe a bodybuilder, the guys you represent, should be able to make their money under any avenue available to them? Do you think it is more damaging to the IFBB for a bber to compete for a smaller org or a bber to do g4p or online stripping shows or "private" posing sessions? I'm curious which one you think is worse.


Just to throw this out there....in "professional wrestling" often big named stars will be allowed to do guest matches for smaller orgs. They are considered private contractors, isn't that what you would consider a pro bber? If a bber isn't considered a private contractor, are they considered an employee? If they are an employee, shouldn't they get a base pay not an "opportunity"?  That is a weak ass deal anyways....haha...they get an opportunity...pfft...opp ortunities don't pay bills, or put food on the table....Bob Manion.

[Chick]

Bob, I notice you didn't answer that.

Suppose Tre, Tim Fogarty, or some other bodybuilding afficianado with a big heart put on a charity bodybuilding event the Thursday before the Olympia.  

THere would be no prize money, but for every IFBB pro that showed up for this contest, $1000 would be given to the American Cancer Society.   A Bodybuilding Pledge show, to be clear.

Would the IFBB pros who showed up to donate their time to this event be banned from the IFBB?

It's a hypothetical, could be a million more...

That said, many of us participated in Shawn's Charity Golf tournament, no one was banned....as for some "show" that benefitted a charity, I have yet to see one, but doubtful anyone would get banned.

[Chick]

He was already comitted to doing the PDI shows which were to be held before his suspension was over.  The IFBB came to him and said "We'll let you back in early if you break your contracts and skip out on the PDI shows".  Lee said "I need to honor my contracts, I'll just wait until my suspension is over".  Then when his suspension was over, the IFBB said, "so sorry... we're not letting you back in".

Basically, they screwed him.

Goddam bro, you cant get anything right...

Lee already said he wasn't going to do the PDI NOC, that was WELL before any offer was made.

The IFBB didn't come to Lee, it was Leer that wanted back in...big difference.

Lee turned down the offer then cited the reason being that he has SEMINARS set up and had to honor them, but never made mention of it until MUCH later. In reality, he could have accepted the offer, AND done his seminars as they had no bearing on his coming back...

Basically, Lee screwed Lee...again.

[Chick]

So, Chick, you don't believe a bodybuilder, the guys you represent, should be able to make their money under any avenue available to them? Do you think it is more damaging to the IFBB for a bber to compete for a smaller org or a bber to do g4p or online stripping shows or "private" posing sessions? I'm curious which one you think is worse.

Just how many pro's actually engage in those acvtivities? Especially in the top 20?

Didn't know those were the only two options available to a pro...either competing or gay porn, huh? How about a JOB? How about WORKING? You make it sound like the few that have done these things were forced into it..LOL, give me a break..

Just to throw this out there....in "professional wrestling" often big named stars will be allowed to do guest matches for smaller orgs. They are considered private contractors, isn't that what you would consider a pro bber? If a bber isn't considered a private contractor, are they considered an employee? If they are an employee, shouldn't they get a base pay not an "opportunity"?  That is a weak ass deal anyways....haha...they get an opportunity...pfft...opp ortunities don't pay bills, or put food on the table....Bob Manion.

Bullshit, you dont know what you're talking about...and a bad example, McMahon pays these guys to wrestle for the WWE, in no way shape or form are they allowed to go make an appearance at any rival show...

Pro BBers are private contractors who ELECT to pay a fee and be a member to the IFBB, in exchange for those opportunities...Opportun ities don't pay bills or put food on the table, huh? What do you think I pay my bills and put food on my table from? Myself and many others who make quite a nice living, and quite a big buck from the opportunities that we took advantage of...

[dr.chimps]

You're insulting the intelligence of people trying to explain the team analogy.  People are often more upset when they're lied to or talked down to, than they would be just being given the facts. 

THIS

[chaos]

Chick, are you saying that every IFBB "pro" has been offered the same opportunities as you? You are so caught up in being the front man for the IFBB and not the "athletes" it has affected your judgement. It is obvious to most here that you spin any argument you can to make the IFBB look right in it's decisions, when in reality they are stopping some of the guys that aren't top 10 from making extra money.

If I find time, I will look for specific examples of wwe guys showing up and performing at smaller shows for you, OK?

One more question, noy being an ass, but how many times and what examples can you give, that would show you have gone to bat for specific people in the IFBB, not talking prize money, but who has run into trouble that you've helped out? Anyone? The cases documented here on getbig Lee, Milos..seem to point to you telling the bber to do what IFBB wants instead of you fighting the IFBB for bbers.

One more edit...by saying "how many of those pros are in the top 20"? does that mean pros out of the top 20 are subject to different rules? Thanks for your time.