Author Topic: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***  (Read 37107 times)

emn1964

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6079
  • Getbig!
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #175 on: January 07, 2008, 08:00:52 AM »
Message to Jason:  You are a hero in my book.  If you are in Maryland, PM me and your membership at my gym is on me.

It does seem odd that Ron and Hedge get shitty when I point out the facts of Islam and what it is doing to innocent people abroad and our guys in uniform everyday of the week.  What is their motivation?

Matt C

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12752
  • The White Vince Goodrum
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #176 on: January 07, 2008, 09:42:43 AM »
I wanna congratulate a guy who's been to hell and back, a true patriot who has put his life on the line for us Bush and his rich friends and US oil and banking interests.

Fixed.

100 percent with you on that one... To even act like the actions that he took weren't truly heroic is disgusting.

No matter what you believe about the war, or what country you're from... respect the people who put it on the line every day.

Other soldiers respect each other... It's a shame that some other people don't.

Are you saying all soldiers are heroes, regardless of what they are fighting for?

and if these men did not sign up there would be a draft.  You are simply genious.

haha, yeah, good luck drafting someone like ME.  There is no fucking way that I would fight in any war for profit - I would sooner go to jail.  Unfortunately people falsely believe wars are for freedom and not for money and that is why they are so eager to fight in them.  And if I genuinely felt the same way, I would gladly enlist.
Bodybuilding Pro.com

youandme

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11062
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #177 on: January 07, 2008, 09:49:12 AM »
Wars are never about quarells, but are about assets - Jean Jacques Rousseu

Good luck on the recovery bro

The Master

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13785
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #178 on: January 07, 2008, 11:42:34 AM »
When did this happen?

tu_holmes

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 15922
  • Robot
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #179 on: January 07, 2008, 11:45:46 AM »
Fixed.

Are you saying all soldiers are heroes, regardless of what they are fighting for?

haha, yeah, good luck drafting someone like ME.  There is no fucking way that I would fight in any war for profit - I would sooner go to jail.  Unfortunately people falsely believe wars are for freedom and not for money and that is why they are so eager to fight in them.  And if I genuinely felt the same way, I would gladly enlist.

A soldier who fights is ALWAYS a hero... Even if you don't believe in it yourself.

He may not be a hero to you or me... but he's a hero to someone.

Soldiers respect each other.

Bobby

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5219
  • is da lordes plan
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #180 on: January 07, 2008, 11:47:05 AM »
Good luck bro! many ppl in your shoes would have given up. I don't think the war is justified but that's easy to say in hindsight. Back in 2002-3 i believed in it and was for it, afghanistan that is...iraq however ...too many americans are gonna die for something that isn't a threat. it's easy to be for it when u watch the news but when you see the al jazera footage of the dead Americans :'(

Are you saying all soldiers are heroes, regardless of what they are fighting for?

Yes! remember this... many soldier don't fight for their country or their leaders, but for themselves and their brothers in arms.
tank u jesus

The Master

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13785
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #181 on: January 07, 2008, 11:50:11 AM »
A soldier who fights is ALWAYS a hero... Even if you don't believe in it yourself.

He may not be a hero to you or me... but he's a hero to someone.

Soldiers respect each other.


If you take the "ideal" the hero = fighting for out of the picture (if the ideal = good or bad is often a matter of who's judging anyway), then you can say that a soldier fighting in Irak is a hero, because he/she has to have many of the traits that we commonly associate with being a hero. Risking ones life for a higher agenda, hard work, courage, not giving up no matter what and so on...

Of course, if you use this way of thinking, you can also claim that a terrorist = a hero.


tu_holmes

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 15922
  • Robot
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #182 on: January 07, 2008, 11:53:46 AM »
If you take the "ideal" the hero = fighting for out of the picture (if the ideal = good or bad is often a matter of who's judging anyway), then you can say that a soldier fighting in Irak is a hero, because he/she has to have many of the traits that we commonly associate with being a hero. Risking ones life for a higher agenda, hard work, courage, not giving up no matter what and so on...

Of course, if you use this way of thinking, you can also claim that a terrorist = a hero.



While any terrorist isn't a hero to me... we can not deny that terrorists are indeed heroes to SOMEONE.

I'll slice and dice them, but that doesn't mean that somewhere, someone isn't praying for their safe return.

CalvinH

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22221
  • Spastic Tarted Cvunt
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #183 on: January 07, 2008, 11:55:47 AM »
Jay-good luck with your arm.

The Master

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13785
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #184 on: January 07, 2008, 12:03:33 PM »
While any terrorist isn't a hero to me... we can not deny that terrorists are indeed heroes to SOMEONE.

I'll slice and dice them, but that doesn't mean that somewhere, someone isn't praying for their safe return.
`

Debussey thinks that a requirement for being a hero is to possess the personality traits of being a true hero.

Then, if the overwhelming majority of the population that judges the "hero" (since the only universal criteria for judging the higher ideal = if many people agree with it at a certain point in time) agrees with the ideal the hero fights for, then he is a true hero.

Then, what people thinks varies througout time, so a "hero" today can be a "zero" in 100 years because the ideal is seen in another light.

How the majority of the people in the US evaluates the ideal the soliders are fighting for (not just the war, but also the ideal of doing your best as an army representative (the internal army ideals, lot of honor associated with that, no matter what the war is fought for) and how they see their courageful efforts is the best way to determine if a solider risking his life = a hero.

We need to split the "ideal" into several sub parts, like:
- The reason for the war
- the general view of a solider following order
- The general view of the US army
- the romantic view of somebody sacrificing themselves for something greater
- the historical way this war will be seen
- the long term effects of removing Saddam. Perhaps the arabic world will be better off by this war in the long term (50+ years)? Who knows.
- spreading western values

If the majority of the sub parts of the "ideal" turns out positive, and is supported by the majority, then a soldier fighting in Irak is a hero, based on the criteria for which a true hero is judged, as described within this post.

Another distinction: A desk job in Irak does not satisfy the requirements for being a true hero. One has to either contribute strategically through tactical genius, or be out there risking ones life on the battlefields.

Wiggs

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41300
  • An Ethnic Israelite
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #185 on: January 07, 2008, 12:09:37 PM »
Jay Pegg. From a fellow service member, thanks for everything.  I'm Air Force, 10 years, I get out in September.  Had enough...Seen enough...

To all the Americans on the board whether or not you support the war should make no difference.  You should always stand behind the troops. They might not agree with the reason they fight every time but they do it because they swore to.

Ron, if it hasn't already been done I highly recommend Bluto is put in time out for six months minimum.  I consider stuff like this worse than racism.
7

Matt C

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12752
  • The White Vince Goodrum
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #186 on: January 07, 2008, 12:10:37 PM »
Debussey, what about the Appeal to Popularity fallacy?
Bodybuilding Pro.com

Matt C

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12752
  • The White Vince Goodrum
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #187 on: January 07, 2008, 12:12:02 PM »
To all the Americans on the board whether or not you support the war should make no difference.

Let's please stop promoting this illogical thought!  By no means should people always support the troops.  If the troops were sent to kill babies in China, should we support them too?  Of course not!  Think about what you are saying here.
Bodybuilding Pro.com

Your MAAAAaaaa

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 1402
  • GETBIGS MINISTER OF SEXUAL HEALTH
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #188 on: January 07, 2008, 12:12:39 PM »
Actually he is a political pawn who doesn't even realize that he himself is a terrorist fighting an immoral and illegal war for MONEY while being brainwashed to believe it is for freedom.  Without soldiers, this war could not continue.  Soldiers and police officers are hired thugs with guns to protect the assets of the rich.

That said, in his own subjective perspective, he is a hero, fighting for what he (falsely) believes to be a just cause.  But the same can be said for Hitler, so that argument is meaningless.


Ban this nerd


ta ta
Pm me for STI advice @ NO COST

The Master

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13785
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #189 on: January 07, 2008, 12:12:39 PM »
`

Debussey thinks that a requirement for being a hero is to possess the personality traits of being a true hero.

Then, if the overwhelming majority of the population that judges the "hero" (since the only universal criteria for judging the higher ideal = if many people agree with it at a certain point in time) agrees with the ideal the hero fights for, then he is a true hero.

Then, what people thinks varies througout time, so a "hero" today can be a "zero" in 100 years because the ideal is seen in another light.

How the majority of the people in the US evaluates the ideal the soliders are fighting for (not just the war, but also the ideal of doing your best as an army representative (the internal army ideals, lot of honor associated with that, no matter what the war is fought for) and how they see their courageful efforts is the best way to determine if a solider risking his life = a hero.

We need to split the "ideal" into several sub parts, like:
- The reason for the war
- the general view of a solider following order
- The general view of the US army
- the romantic view of somebody sacrificing themselves for something greater
- the historical way this war will be seen
- the long term effects of removing Saddam. Perhaps the arabic world will be better off by this war in the long term (50+ years)? Who knows.
- spreading western values

If the majority of the sub parts of the "ideal" turns out positive, and is supported by the majority, then a soldier fighting in Irak is a hero, based on the criteria for which a true hero is judged, as described within this post.

Another distinction: A desk job in Irak does not satisfy the requirements for being a true hero. One has to either contribute strategically through tactical genius, or be out there risking ones life on the battlefields.

Given the questionable reasons behind the "ideal" they are fighting for, plus the fact that this was an injury from a bomb, Debussey does not think he fulfills the critieria of being a hero.

If he had saved a friend from being burned alive in a truck in Irak by risking his life and perhaps getting injured, he'd be a hero almost regardless of the "ideal". But this is not the case.

He is a brave man though, very brave.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #190 on: January 07, 2008, 12:14:07 PM »
'hero' is vague.

If you think about it, a larger % of the world believes Osama is a hero, than they believe Bush is.

So I don't put much worth into public perception of a hero.  

Jason Pegg is a hero to me beacuse he fought to help preserve my way of life.  Do I believe the WMD fairy tale?  Of course not.  Most educated people have given up on that story now.  But I do believe the war will make America stronger.  We now control 80% of Iraqi oil, and we have a slew of new permanent military bases in the region.  I will have more access to gas for my truck, and I will fear a Russian attack, less, thanks to his service.  

Guys, you have to remember that this war serves an offensive AND a defensive purpose.  Sure, there are war profiteers and there are abuses.  But the oil and global position we're gaining has made us safer, there is no denying that.  Half of the 911 commissioners have called the official story a lie - we can take their word for it, that 911 had a lot of shady shit about it.  And WMD was all a lie, because Americans can't do the math and see we need bases and oil control.

It is what it is.  We can't change it.  We all play our positions.  Jason is a hero to me for protecting my country and my way of life.  That's it.




noc

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1429
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #191 on: January 07, 2008, 12:14:22 PM »
While any terrorist isn't a hero to me... we can not deny that terrorists are indeed heroes to SOMEONE.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter  8)

joelocal

  • Guest
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #192 on: January 07, 2008, 12:19:14 PM »
STFU you bring NOTHING to this thread

And this was the only post I've seen of yours. Whats your point?

flexingtonsteele

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5653
  • The new age pussy Punisher!
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #193 on: January 07, 2008, 12:19:54 PM »
Jason is a helluva man, and its an honour to have him post on getbig.

Bluto should be put in time-out for that response.


Matt C

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12752
  • The White Vince Goodrum
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #194 on: January 07, 2008, 12:21:02 PM »

Ban this nerd


ta ta

Ironically, I have more service with the military and with the UN than almost everyone bashing me in this thread.
Bodybuilding Pro.com

joelocal

  • Guest
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #195 on: January 07, 2008, 12:23:29 PM »
Ironically, I have more service with the military and with the UN than almost everyone bashing me in this thread.

As if the UN has any credibility. Just because someone was in the military doesn't make then an expert.

The Master

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13785
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #196 on: January 07, 2008, 12:26:09 PM »
Debussey, what about the Appeal to Popularity fallacy?

Well, if you posted this in a direct response to Debusseys post about the criteria for being a true "hero", then you got to remember that since the "ideal" part of the hero - defenition is not determinable by definitive criteria, the critieria of intersubjectivity in the given population that are to evaluate if one is a hero or not is to be used. Thus, since there = no clear cut truth here, only the intersubjectivity in a population at point X in time, the idea of a a determinable truth is not usable. Ergo, the Appeal to Popularity might not have its place here.?

Within this area, you can say that the ones in power has manipulated the population with the Appeal to Popularity fallacy to promote the ideals that leads to the intersubjectivity that then leads to the fulfillment of the ideal sub criteria. But this is still not relevant because the subjective feelings of the population = still there, and the ways to it is irrelevant.

Then one can ask oneself if it is ethical for a population to accept a flawed ideal, but this is another thing, because the ethics to determine the hero = decided within the population where the intersubjectivity exists if this defenition are to hold true.


Wiggs

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41300
  • An Ethnic Israelite
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #197 on: January 07, 2008, 12:26:24 PM »
Let's please stop promoting this illogical thought!  By no means should people always support the troops.  If the troops were sent to kill babies in China, should we support them too?  Of course not!  Think about what you are saying here.

I'm thinking me arguing with you is going to be pointless but I have some time waste to education an uniformed board member.  Illogical thought?  You speak as if we (America) go to war on a whim ALL THE TIME.  Like I said, we service members don't always agree with the reasons why we go but the moment you sign and raise your hand, you know what your getting into.  Even though I don't agree with the initial reasons why we went in, we are there and to leave at this moment would be grave mistake.  This has been acknowledged  by many politicians (minus Ron Paul).  If you don't believe in your government perhaps you should find another country of residence assuming you live in the U.S.  You're probably like one of those guys that go and interrupt troop funerals. 
7

The Master

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13785
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #198 on: January 07, 2008, 12:28:14 PM »
Nobody should be put in time-out for bashing him. This would only follow if Getbig = a board only for those hard core people from US. It is not, and since bashing of religion and other things that resembles this situation = allowed, it would be fucked up to ban or time out somebody for making posts like Bluto did.

Matt C

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12752
  • The White Vince Goodrum
Re: A hero amongst us... ***graphic***
« Reply #199 on: January 07, 2008, 12:30:06 PM »
As if the UN has any credibility. Just because someone was in the military doesn't make then an expert.

That is true.  The reason why I am so passionate about this topic is in part due to my years of service for the Canadian Forces reserve and knowing what a farce world politics are.  I couldn't stand being a political pawn and had to quit.  The CF was paying me $2,000 a year to go to university and a half day's pay ($52 for me at the time) to come in on Tuesday nights for three hours (minimum requirement of course, I did way more most of the time).  I had to stay in until October of 2004 to get my $2,000 payment and I would only have to work six more Tuesday nights (18 hours).  I would have been paid $2,300 for 18 hours work and I still quit.  That's how much I despised the military.  I felt very under-appreciated for what I did on all fronts, but I can accept a civilian not appreciating what I did, but I find it very offensive that people within the army treat each other so terribly, and that is in the Canadian army - it is no doubt far worse in the USA.
Bodybuilding Pro.com