A hero amongst us... ***graphic***

[Board_SHERIF]

Make LOVE Not WAR 

[The Master]

That is true.  The reason why I am so passionate about this topic is in part due to my years of service for the Canadian Forces reserve and know what a farce world politics are.  I couldn't stand being a political pawn and had to quit.  The CF was paying me $2,000 a year to go to university and a half day's pay ($52 for me at the time) to come in on Tuesday nights for three hours (minimum requirement of course, I did way more most of the time).  I had to stay in until October of 2004 to get my $2,000 payment and I would only have to work six more Tuesday nights (18 hours).  I would have been paid $2,300 for 18 hours work and I still quit.  That's how much I despised the military.  I felt very under-appreciated for what I did on all fronts, but I can accept a civilian not appreciating what I did, but I find it very offensive that people within the army treat each other so terribly, and that is in the Canadian army - it is no doubt far worse in the USA.

The army in Debusseys opinion holds one great promise for men like us: The access to extreme ways of pushing ones comfort zone and developing intense courage, not easily obtained in the civil world. This of course, requires special training, but that = another thing.

[Matt C]

The army in Debusseys opinion holds one great promise for men like us: The access to extreme ways of pushing ones comfort zone and developing intense courage, not easily obtained in the civil world. This of course, requires special training, but that = another thing.

If I scanned pictures of all of my military achievement awards, I think a lot of people would immediately lend credibility to some of my statements.  Even though, that too, is illogical. 

[Wiggs]

That is true.  The reason why I am so passionate about this topic is in part due to my years of service for the Canadian Forces reserve and know what a farce world politics are.  I couldn't stand being a political pawn and had to quit.  The CF was paying me $2,000 a year to go to university and a half day's pay ($52 for me at the time) to come in on Tuesday nights for three hours (minimum requirement of course, I did way more most of the time).  I had to stay in until October of 2004 to get my $2,000 payment and I would only have to work six more Tuesday nights (18 hours).  I would have been paid $2,300 for 18 hours work and I still quit.  That's how much I despised the military.  I felt very under-appreciated for what I did on all fronts, but I can accept a civilian not appreciating what I did, but I find it very offensive that people within the army treat each other so terribly, and that is in the Canadian army - it is no doubt far worse in the USA.

Oh you're Canadian?  I just wasted the last 10 minutes.  You're propaganda is different than ours, you wouldn't understand

[The Master]

If I scanned pictures of all of my military achievement awards, I think a lot of people would immediately lend credibility to some of my statements.  Even though, that too, is illogical. 

Well, in ones journy through life, it is wise to accept that people = not always logical, and to take advantage of that

Please respond to Debusseys answer about the appeal to popularity fallacy. Debussey = not quite sure what your intention was, and Debusses answer might have been totally off.

[Matt C]

Oh you're Canadian?  I just wasted the last 10 minutes.  You're propaganda is different than ours, you wouldn't understand

Somewhat different, yes.  We are mostly just the "little buddy" of the USA.

 

[The Master]

Oh you're Canadian?  I just wasted the last 10 minutes.  You're propaganda is different than ours, you wouldn't understand

Well, you can comfort your hurt soul with the fact that MattC can outsmart you 10 times over and run intellectual circles around you on one foot.

[Wiggs]

If I scanned pictures of all of my military achievement awards, I think a lot of people would immediately lend credibility to some of my statements.  Even though, that too, is illogical. 

Who gives a shit about what awards you have?  How does that lend credence to anything you say because you were in the military?  I just told you, I'm in the military (10 years), I have tons of awards ribbons, etc...I'm against the war but I know what I got into when I signed up. You don't pick what wars you want to support when you're in.  I'm not worried about your support, you're Canadian I could give two shits...

[Wiggs]

Well, you can comfort your hurt soul with the fact that MattC can outsmart you 10 times over and run intellectual circles around you on one foot.

Really?  You think so?  In political ideologies and theories?  I highly doubt it.....Matt's right nut called it wants you to let go of it.

[The Master]

Really?  You think so?  In political ideologies and theories?  I highly doubt it.....Matt's right nut called it wants you to let go of it.

Yes, when he = not playing stupid, he can outsmart you 10 times over, even in politics.

[Wiggs]

ok...

Let me guess what you're basing this on...............nah.... to easy.

[240 is Back]

It should be noted that some people here

1) Still believe we went to war in Iraq primarily over wmd, and

2) Still believe the official 911 story, despite half of the 911 commissioners themselves calling it a false whitewash from the white house.

So we're at all different starting points here.  

[Matt C]

Who gives a shit about what awards you have?  How does that lend credence to anything you say because you were in the military?  I just told you, I'm in the military (10 years), I have tons of awards ribbons, etc...I'm against the war but I know what I got into when I signed up. You don't pick what wars you want to support when you're in.  I'm not worried about your support, you're Canadian I could give two shits...

Yes, my military background is irrelevant, but somehow people in general do not treat it that way.  I do not support the war.  I do not support the troops.

It's unfortunate that what happened to Jason happened, but when three police officers decide to beat the shit out of a black man for no reason other than the fact that he's black and the black man ends up shooting and killing them, don't expect me to praise them just because they are police officers and swear to serve and protect.  If you go to bat for something that is illegal and immoral and suffer consequences from it, don't expect my support, and for that matter, you have no right to expect any support at all.

[The Master]

ok...

Let me guess what you're basing this on...............nah.... to easy.

MattC's educational accomplishments, his ability to use logic in "fuzzy" areas that still demands it (like remaining rational in this discussion) and so on.

And the fact that you = a dumb irrational fuck.

[Wiggs]

Yes, my military background is irrelevant, but somehow people in general do not treat it that way.  I do not support the war.  I do not support the troops.

It's unfortunate that what happened to Jason happened, but when three police officers decide to beat the shit out of a black man for no reason other than the fact that he's black and the black man ends up shooting and killing them, don't expect me to praise them just because they are police officers and swear to serve and protect.  If you go to bat for something that is illegal and immoral and suffer consequences from it, don't expect my support, and for that matter, you have no right to expect any support at all.

That's the difference between us.  You see the war as illegal and immoral and I don't.

[Wiggs]

MattC's educational accomplishments, his ability to use logic in "fuzzy" areas that still demands it (like remaining rational in this discussion) and so on.

And the fact that you = a dumb irrational fuck.

yeah ok...buh, bye now...

[dr.chimps]

That's the difference between us.  You see the war as illegal and aimmoral and I don't.

FIFY 

[The Master]

yeah ok...buh, bye now...

Nice try cotton.

[Wiggs]

FIFY 

"an"....sue me Mr. English teach a typo
Sheesh

[figgs]

I believe two things.

1.) The bravery and courage it takes to enter a warzone and carry out your duties as a soldier and go through the psychological and obvious physical pain is something special.

2.) Yes, all the fighting and dying is done in vain. He may have done it for the free college tuition or the brainwashing ideas that they're fighting for freedom and democracy, but in either case he's a hero for his personal experiences, not for his cause. I'm sorry.

[Matt C]

That's the difference between us.  You see the war as illegal and immoral and I don't.

I guess that is open to debate, but yes, I do see the war as being both illegal and immoral.  I have heard some compelling arguments to the contrary and that is fine.  What I do not appreciate are thoughts that simply because the USA is participating in this war it automatically makes it moral.  That to me is not a demonstration of critical thinking.

[Overload]

i didn't read this entire thread but i respect Jason for putting himself in harms way for our country. i've had several family members die for this war and it's really hard to think about sometimes.

[The Master]

I guess that is open to debate, but yes, I do see the war as being both illegal and immoral.  I have heard some compelling arguments to the contrary and that is fine.  What I do not appreciate are thoughts that simply because the USA is participating in this war it automatically makes it moral.  That to me is not a demonstration of critical thinking.

Where did that appeal to popularity fallacy answer go? Debussey = wondering what you meant by that post

[dr.chimps]

"an"....sue me Mr. English teach a typo
Sheesh

Far from a typo. I think amoral, not immoral, is the word you are looking for, my bellicose friend. 

[Matt C]

Where did that appeal to popularity fallacy answer go?

It appears that you are correct. 

I need to go pay my tuition for this semester now.  I will be back online later to say more on your post!