A hero amongst us... ***graphic***

[figgs]

hahaha there's an argument going on, one side supporting the war and one not??? lol I'm not going to waste my time from page to page to leave a footprint in the debate.

All I have to say is one position is smart, educated, moral and ethically in tune with a reasonable and rational society and the other position is a primitive belief that's proof that we clearly have not evolved beyond superstitious, fearful cave dwelling talking warmongering monkies.

[The Master]

It appears that you are correct. 

I need to go pay my tuition for this semester now.  I will be back online later to say more on your post!

Debussey = still wondering what the hell you meant by that post

[Your MAAAAaaaa]

Ironically, I have more service with the military and with the UN than almost everyone bashing me in this thread.

I actually agree with your sentiments, there is a time and a place for that discussion and this thread was simply not it!

I will elaborate further if you need me to, however this was about what Jason sacrificed rightly or wrongly and I felt your diatribe was best saved for a more appropriate thread!

Point taken?

ta ta

[Wiggs]

I guess that is open to debate, but yes, I do see the war as being both illegal and immoral.  I have heard some compelling arguments to the contrary and that is fine.  What I do not appreciate are thoughts that simply because the USA is participating in this war it automatically makes it moral.  That to me is not a demonstration of critical thinking.

If you were to give the U.S. government the benefit of the doubt that they acted on information which they believed to be true at the time, I still feel it was the wrong thing to do at the time and that a more diplomatic approach should have taken place.  In addition, we should have had our energies focused 100% on Afghanistan versus starting something totally new in Iraq. Like you, views from your side can be very compelling with the war for oil etc....but I chose to give my government the benefit of the doubt.

[The Master]

Point taken?

ta ta

No.

[figgs]

LOL

[tu_holmes]

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter 

Also correct.

The US Revolutionary war would be considered a terrorist action in today's world... As would the French revolution and the Bolshevik revolution as well.

[joelocal]

It should be noted that some people here

1) Still believe we went to war in Iraq primarily over wmd, and

And some people still think we originally went to war was ONLY becuase of oil, which is total BS

2) Still believe the official 911 story, despite half of the 911 commissioners themselves calling it a false whitewash from the white house.

You can give that a rest now Rob, it's getting old!

So we're at all different starting points here.  

[Your MAAAAaaaa]

No.

Are you his spokesman these days or just the guy that tucks him in at night?


ta ta

[240 is Back]

1) Still believe we went to war in Iraq primarily over wmd, and
And some people still think we originally went to war was ONLY becuase of oil, which is total BS

Joe, you're a religious man.  Is it morally right to TAKE 80% of Iraqi oil? 

The fact that you're okay with SOME of the invasion reason being oil... I don't know how you can justify that.  Thou shalt not steal.  You're defending theft.  I defend it too, because I like the US owning their shit.  But you are a very religious person, and that's theft no matter how you cut it!

2) Still believe the official 911 story, despite half of the 911 commissioners themselves calling it a false whitewash from the white house.

You can give that a rest now Rob, it's getting old!

Actually, one of the ten 911 Commissioners came forward LAST WEEK.  He was furious that no one told him that 2 of the hijackers spent the year before the attacks living in an FBI safe house.  And when it came up in the investigation, the White House themselves froze the investigation so the commissioners never heard it.
Did ya know that? 

I suppose if you lost a loved one in the attacks, or cared about American lives, you would care about this.

[figgs]

Great idea. Let's replace a lost truth with new lies, if it'll make you sleep better. Here, take a Prozac and go back to bed. Your government is under control. Go back to bed, America. Your government is under control.

[figgs]

Joe, you're a religious man.  Is it morally right to TAKE 80% of Iraqi oil? 

The fact that you're okay with SOME of the invasion reason being oil... I don't know how you can justify that.  Thou shalt not steal.  You're defending theft.  I defend it too, because I like the US owning their shit.  But you are a very religious person, and that's theft no matter how you cut it!


Actually, one of the ten 911 Commissioners came forward LAST WEEK.  He was furious that no one told him that 2 of the hijackers spent the year before the attacks living in an FBI safe house.  And when it came up in the investigation, the White House themselves froze the investigation so the commissioners never heard it.
Did ya know that? 

I suppose if you lost a loved one in the attacks, or cared about American lives, you would care about this.

Damn, I'm a "truther" and I didn't know that. It gets more and more clear as the fog of bullshit breaks.

[240 is Back]

Damn, I'm a "truther" and I didn't know that. It gets more and more clear as the fog of bullshit breaks.

I stopped following most of that 6 months ago... but this one grabbed me. 

I don't know why people aren't interested in finding out who helped murder 3000 fellow Americans.  They think ti's a partisan issue - that a proper investigation of mass murder is somehow "liberal".  I wonder if Gore had been in office, and we had learned all of this, if Joe and others would care so little about this.

I'm a 2-time Bush voter.  Joe voted for Clinton.  I've been a repub a lot longer than he has, and I still am.  But I'm not a neocon, I"m a traditional repub. 

[joelocal]

Joe, you're a religious man.  Is it morally right to TAKE 80% of Iraqi oil? 

The fact that you're okay with SOME of the invasion reason being oil... I don't know how you can justify that.  Thou shalt not steal.  You're defending theft.  I defend it too, because I like the US owning their shit.  But you are a very religious person, and that's theft no matter how you cut it!


Actually, one of the ten 911 Commissioners came forward LAST WEEK.  He was furious that no one told him that 2 of the hijackers spent the year before the attacks living in an FBI safe house.  And when it came up in the investigation, the White House themselves froze the investigation so the commissioners never heard it.
Did ya know that? 

I suppose if you lost a loved one in the attacks, or cared about American lives, you would care about this.

1. If were taking it, where the hell is it?

2. The original invation wasn't about oil and you know it, they were blowing oil lines so we HAD to protect it, and yes, it's in our best intrest to protect it.

Just think Rob, if the pansy ass enviromentalists (I call them Libs) wouldn't stop us from drilling we have less intrest in oil in the middle east.

[240 is Back]

1. If were taking it, where the hell is it?

Dude.  The central Iraqi govt signed a hydrocarbon agreement.  US oil firms now manage 80% of Iraqi oil field indefinitely, no matter what elections do there.  We have the bases there to protect this oil.  This isn't a CT theory - this is law now.  THat's where the hell it is.  We own 4/5 of their fields forever.  Google iraqi oil hydrocarbon law.

2. The original invation wasn't about oil and you know it, they were blowing oil lines so we HAD to protect it, and yes, it's in our best intrest to protect it.

Our best interest?  Of course!   But it's still theft - 'Involuntary sharing" 

You can look in the mirror and say it's not, but I'm honest enough to say that yes, it's theft.  The iraqi people and their legislature rejected it, but we forced al-maliki to sign the agreement. 

I'm all for taking their oil, but I'm man enough to admit I support theft.  You're hiding behind that phrase "our best interest".  Don't do that.  Admit you support the conquering of another nation for their resouece, which belonged to them, not us.  Admit it!

[joelocal]

Dude.  The central Iraqi govt signed a hydrocarbon agreement.  US oil firms now manage 80% of Iraqi oil field indefinitely, no matter what elections do there.  We have the bases there to protect this oil.  This isn't a CT theory - this is law now.  THat's where the hell it is.  We own 4/5 of their fields forever.  Google iraqi oil hydrocarbon law.

If this is true...then good


Our best interest?  Of course!   But it's still theft - 'Involuntary sharing" 

You can look in the mirror and say it's not, but I'm honest enough to say that yes, it's theft.  The iraqi people and their legislature rejected it, but we forced al-maliki to sign the agreement. 

I'm all for taking their oil, but I'm man enough to admit I support theft.  You're hiding behind that phrase "our best interest".  Don't do that.  Admit you support the conquering of another nation for their resouece, which belonged to them, not us.  Admit it!

How is it theft if we already owned part of it?

[240 is Back]

How is it theft if we already owned part of it?

What % of it did we "own", and when did we own it?

As of 2007, the US oil firms took control of all future oil exploration rights for 80% of Iraqi oil, indefinitely.  We drill it as we please, we sell it to ourselves at any price we choose. 

If I point a gun at you and tell you I'll give you $20 for your SUV, is that theft?

[bigdumbbell]

As if the UN has any credibility. Just because someone was in the military doesn't make then an expert.

more credibility than some chicken hawk who never served but is now oh so brave.

[Camel Jockey]

As I like stated before, the gesture is appreciated. Jason is a hero in my book. He took a great risk with his life and suffered, and I am deeply sorry for his suffering. But the cause for which it was done is immoral, but of course it kept down gas prices and made the lives of Americans better.

Fuck Bluto.. I don't care. However, MattC and Debussey make great arguements, and you guys just can't seem to find any counters without resorting to ad hominem attacks.. I also find it ironic that you guys call Matt a pussy and consider his opinions invalid when he himself has served in the military, while many of you insulting him haven't.

MattC is getting a hard time because you guys can't take politically incorrect statements. Just pull your heads out of your asses for once.

[The Master]

Are you his spokesman these days or just the guy that tucks him in at night?


ta ta

Debussey could be your spokesman if you bought it a new anal probe.

[warrior_code]

Not many people I have encountered have the ability to disect a certain issue and make it as clear as matt and 240 are.  What I would do to see one of you two on fox news debateing with O'reilly.  Bravo.   

[240 is Back]

Not many people I have encountered have the ability to disect a certain issue and make it as clear as matt and 240 are.  What I would do to see one of you two on fox news debateing with O'reilly.  Bravo.  

I believe OReilly would mute me.  Given equal time, I could show his viewers that 911 involved more than 19 pricks.  Of course, he'd say "Popular Mechanics already debunked this", ignoring the fact that PM made things up, said they were shown evidence that didn't exist, and actually claimed to have recovered - and identified - all 10 WTC terrorists DNA from the burning collapsed skyscrapers within 25 hours.  Yes, plus their editor was cousin of Homeland security chief Michael chertoff.

And I'd ask him about the ABC report about the hijackers training with the FBI and living with them.  And he'd insult me and bring up something about the Holocaust, a common tactic used when people don't want to talk evidence.

After I schooled him on the evidence (as I did with joelocal tonight - he's very quiet now), I'd tell him that I actually SUPPORT the war for oil and bases, because I want a strong USA.  I just detest being lied to

[BFP]

I believe OReilly would mute me.  Given equal time, I could show his viewers that 911 involved more than 19 pricks.  Of course, he'd say "Popular Mechanics already debunked this", ignoring the fact that PM made things up, said they were shown evidence that didn't exist, and actually claimed to have recovered - and identified - all 10 WTC terrorists DNA from the burning collapsed skyscrapers within 25 hours.  Yes, plus their editor was cousin of Homeland security chief Michael chertoff.

And I'd ask him about the ABC report about the hijackers training with the FBI and living with them.  And he'd insult me and bring up something about the Holocaust, a common tactic used when people don't want to talk evidence.

After I schooled him on the evidence (as I did with joelocal tonight - he's very quiet now), I'd tell him that I actually SUPPORT the war for oil and bases, because I want a strong USA.  I just detest being lied to

I can appreciate the last two lines here Rob, definitely.

Jason

[chaos]

I see the debate about Jason's heroic actions rages on.

[thewickedtruth]

word


Thanks for what you do Jason. If it's not too much to ask and have you remember again, would you mind telling the procedures as to how they saved your arm both in the truck and in the hospital?  

Guess  you have some "cred" now huh?!    They ever offer to do any other kind of reconstruction to you or no?