worst gh gut ever ?

[joelocal]

Ok..seeing as you are the first person I have come across to totally deny the fact that GH abused in huge quantities causes enlargement of the organs, intestines and often abnormal bone growth..why don't YOU post a study that proves that it is insulin alone causing these huge stomachs? That's what you assert, where is YOUR proof?  ..If you can post a link of your findings, that would be great.

 

Here's a couple.

Side Effects of Overproducing Insulin

Over production of insulin can aggravate or trigger other problems including infertility, weight gain, bloating, poor lipid profiles, hormonal imbalances, cosmetic problems (hair loss, hirsutism, skin tags, acanthosis nigricans), and contribute to more serious health risks like high blood pressure, heart problems, and an increased risk of developing diabetes, and gestational diabetes during pregnancy. 

A pancreas that continually over produces insulin may also, over time, wear out, in which case a patient usually will need to take insulin.  

http://www.isletsofhope.com/metabolic/insulin_resistance_1.html#side


http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/diabetes.html

[no one]

Here's a couple.

Side Effects of Overproducing Insulin

Over production of insulin can aggravate or trigger other problems including infertility, weight gain, bloating, poor lipid profiles, hormonal imbalances, cosmetic problems (hair loss, hirsutism, skin tags, acanthosis nigricans), and contribute to more serious health risks like high blood pressure, heart problems, and an increased risk of developing diabetes, and gestational diabetes during pregnancy. 

A pancreas that continually over produces insulin may also, over time, wear out, in which case a patient usually will need to take insulin.  

http://www.isletsofhope.com/metabolic/insulin_resistance_1.html#side


http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/diabetes.html

the title of the thread is 'worst gh gut ever'

the question was posed, what causes it.

you answered insulin.

this is your proof?

i would like to be the first to thank you proving to us all you have no idea what you are talking about. again.

[David Puddy]

Its not the GH that made his gut like that, its most likely the mass amounts of insulin he was taking, and the large amounts of food he would eat

[affeman]

Ceck out the guy on the right!



The alien could punch it's way out any minute!

[FLYLO]

.

[bigkid]

I think its a combination of insulin and overeating.  To say its insulin alone is faulty IMO.

[Hugo Chavez]

I don't get it, at some point you would think these guys would say, fuck this isn't working out so well.

[medz zeppelin]

Yes there is. Excessive amounts of HGH make all the internal organs and intestines grow..the problem may be compounded by insulin but it is caused primarily by GH. Hence why the problem has reached epidemic proportions as the use of GH has become more prevalent.

They've performed autopsies on abusers of GH and their hearts, livers, intestines, everything, have been enlarged. It's proven beyond doubt that it does it...along with a lot else like cause abnormal bone growth and diabetes - leading to insulin problems.

If the internal organs grow and they're not fat or muscle tissue do they stay that way when the user gets off hgh and insulin?

[mossel]

[tamiller866]

Big guts have nothing to with internal organ growth. It's excessive visceral fat accumulation. You don't need to actually inject insulin to cause it, ask any bloke with a "beer gut".

Insulin spikes from high glycemic diets, high arachidonic acid (red meat), or insulin injection promote it, and guys "cutting" with HGH rather than diet and exercise is why it's so rampant in BB these days.

So you can call it "GH gut" or "insulin gut" and be niether wrong nor right.

[omgsoswole]

Big guts have nothing to with internal organ growth. It's excessive visceral fat accumulation. You don't need to actually inject insulin to cause it, ask any bloke with a "beer gut".

Insulin spikes from high glycemic diets, high arachidonic acid (red meat), or insulin injection promote it, and guys "cutting" with HGH rather than diet and exercise is why it's so rampant in BB these days.

So you can call it "GH gut" or "insulin gut" and be niether wrong nor right.

most sensible post in this thread.

'Growing organs' are an incredibly unlikely cause of 'gh gut'.

[rockyfortune]

alright joe, then what the hell is that ?

a death sentence...

[joelocal]

the title of the thread is 'worst gh gut ever'

the question was posed, what causes it.

you answered insulin.

this is your proof?

i would like to be the first to thank you proving to us all you have no idea what you are talking about. again.

Yeah, thats my proof and I can put up million more just like it. If you knew or understood the articals I posted you would understand how insulin works.  GH gut my ass!!

Look junour, you obviously have a hard on for me or you wouldn't be blasting every post I write, it could be dark outside and you would argue the opposite just to be a pain in the ass.


BTW, where's your proof?

[joelocal]

a death sentence...

Yes, insulin abuse is a death sentance.

[joelocal]

I think its a combination of insulin and overeating.  To say its insulin alone is faulty IMO.

In goes hand in hand.

[no one]

Yeah, thats my proof and I can put up million more just like it. If you knew or understood the articals I posted you would understand how insulin works.  GH gut my ass!!

Look junour, you obviously have a hard on for me or you wouldn't be blasting every post I write, it could be dark outside and you would argue the opposite just to be a pain in the ass.


BTW, where's your proof?

never said i had any.

just arguing to be a pain in the ass.

[TrueGrit]

Here's a couple.

Side Effects of Overproducing Insulin

Over production of insulin can aggravate or trigger other problems including infertility, weight gain, bloating, poor lipid profiles, hormonal imbalances, cosmetic problems (hair loss, hirsutism, skin tags, acanthosis nigricans), and contribute to more serious health risks like high blood pressure, heart problems, and an increased risk of developing diabetes, and gestational diabetes during pregnancy. 

A pancreas that continually over produces insulin may also, over time, wear out, in which case a patient usually will need to take insulin.  

http://www.isletsofhope.com/metabolic/insulin_resistance_1.html#side


http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/diabetes.html

Yes, I know and understand all about insulin resistance, insulin spikes, diabetes and the like. That certainly doesn't amount to a 'proof' that it is the only thing responsible for the large guts of professional bodybuilders.

 One of the major side effects of taking the vast amounts of HGH that bodybuilders do is the overproduction of insulin.  Abusive use of GH can cause diabetes. So even if the guts are exclusively the product of insulin that still doesn't rule out the root cause being GH. Although I don't believe that insulin is the soul culprit as autopsies on those who used excessive amounts of GH have shown enlarged hearts, 30lb livers and intestinal growth.

Also, whilst I understand that what is forcing the stomach out in such an protruding manner could partly be fat storage around the organs ..there is also, uncoiled, something like half a mile of intestines behind it. When someone is at 4-6% bodyfat with clearly defined abs yet still has a giant belly, then it seems a little absurd to say that there is no possibility this huge mass of tissue hasn't grown when we know that the whole point of GH is to promote growth and the spill over effect it that it grows everything..

 Gh and insulin are not mutually exclusive ..GH causes uncontrollable insulin spikes. Like I said, when you factor in the forced feeding this will exacerbate the problem but the stomachs have all coincided with the emergence of HGH..We know that it enlarges all muscles, organs , tissues and even bones when used..so why deny that it enlarges the organs and intestines behind the gut?

 Personally, I think my answer is much more sound..  especially as the GH causes all the deleterious effects that you cite and that it would explain why even at ultra-low, dangerous levels of bodyfat they still have stomachs that are painfully straining and being aggressively forced out, without any ability to control it.

[joelocal]

Yes, I know and understand all about insulin resistance, insulin spikes, diabetes and the like. That certainly doesn't amount to a 'proof' that it is the only thing responsible for the large guts of professional bodybuilders.

 One of the major side effects of taking the vast amounts of HGH that bodybuilders do is the overproduction of insulin.  Abusive use of GH can cause diabetes. So even if the guts are exclusively the product of insulin that still doesn't rule out the root cause being GH. Although I don't believe that insulin is the soul culprit as autopsies on those who used excessive amounts of GH have shown enlarged hearts, 30lb livers and intestinal growth.

Also, whilst I understand that what is forcing the stomach out in such an protruding manner could partly be fat storage around the organs ..there is also, uncoiled, something like half a mile of intestines behind it. When someone is at 4-6% bodyfat with clearly defined abs yet still has a giant belly, then it seems a little absurd to say that there is no possibility this huge mass of tissue hasn't grown when we know that the whole point of GH is to promote growth and the spill over effect it that it grows everything..

 Gh and insulin are not mutually exclusive ..GH causes uncontrollable insulin spikes. Like I said, when you factor in the forced feeding this will exacerbate the problem but the stomachs have all coincided with the emergence of HGH..We know that it enlarges all muscles, organs , tissues and even bones when used..so why deny that it enlarges the organs and intestines behind the gut?

 Personally, I think my answer is much more sound..  especially as the GH causes all the deleterious effects that you cite and that it would explain why even at ultra-low, dangerous levels of bodyfat they still have stomachs that are painfully straining and being aggressively forced out, without any ability to control it.

Then if you understand how insulin works, then you understand being reletivly carb deficit leading up to the final week or so before a show, then approximately 4-5 days prior to the show, increasing the carb intake to sometimes up to 4-5000 grms over the course of the 4-5 days acts as a stimulant (actually is considered a stimulant) and increases the sensitivity, then add ECA and Clen which increases even more sensitivity.....and if they load insulin along with the carb load phase.....results are big, bloated, hard belly. Yes, I know the effects of the HGH and insulin as well (I posted an article yesterday on the effects of acromegley) but like I said, most of the articles I pulled up from JAMA and BMJ had nothing on organ growth.

Plain and simple........insulin overproduction. Also, from the studies I've read on insulin, the way these guys are taking it (even at 20iu's) is much worse than AAS over the long haul. One of the problems also is there is hardly any case studies reguarding BBers in reguards to the sometimes massive intake of GH and Insulin. I do have one, I will find it and post it, I posted it once before.

[emn1964]

LOL since GH causes the human body to increase it's cellular reproduction and growth....
That means all over the body including the internal organs in most cases, causing the very common GH gut.

never been proven.  most likely cause is insulin

[TrueGrit]

It isn't plain and simple at all. These stomachs are more than just bloated - although it is obviously a factor. However, bodybuilders have been carb loading for years and maintained the ability to perform poses like the stomach vacuum..they've been using clen and all sorts of drugs..without the emergence of the stomachs.

 You seem so set on it solely being insulin that you seemingly ignore the fact that HGH grows virtually all human tissue. When used in very large amounts it adds growth to muscles, organs, even bone and hair. Why do you have such difficulty understanding that it grows the intestines? They pay huge sums to buy HGH because it aids growth - you can't choose what it grows, you can't take it to only grow arms; it grows EVERTHING.

 The guts are a product of increased organ and intestinal growth, insulin overproduction (which GH causes ), and the other reasons you've listed.  I agree that insulin overproduction doesn't help ..in fact it's ruinous and yet another side effect.

 Anyway, there is no point continuing the discussion as your response is just 'it's insulin, end of story' or 'I know about insulin' etc.. You don't even address the fact that GH causes the insulin response. Also, the reason why there haven't been huge studies of the effects of massive amounts of GH on the human body is because it would be totally unethical and illegal. It's like giving people cancer to study them.

In studies where animals were given GH their organs and bodily tissues all grew as result. Ergo the name: Growth Hormone.

Over and out.

[emn1964]

Also, the reason why there haven't been huge studies of the effects of massive amounts of GH on the human body is because it would be totally unethical and illegal. It's like giving people cancer to study them.

Damn, now there's an idea for all of those fuks down in gitmo.

[joelocal]

It isn't plain and simple at all. These stomachs are more than just bloated - although it is obviously a factor. However, bodybuilders have been carb loading for years and maintained the ability to perform poses like the stomach vacuum..they've been using clen and all sorts of drugs..without the emergence of the stomachs.

 You seem so set on it solely being insulin that you seemingly ignore the fact that HGH grows virtually all human tissue. When used in very large amounts it adds growth to muscles, organs, even bone and hair. Why do you have such difficulty understanding that it grows the intestines? They pay huge sums to buy HGH because it aids growth - you can't choose what it grows, you can't take it to only grow arms; it grows EVERTHING.

 The guts are a product of increased organ and intestinal growth, insulin overproduction (which GH causes ), and the other reasons you've listed.  I agree that insulin overproduction doesn't help ..in fact it's ruinous and yet another side effect.

 Anyway, there is no point continuing the discussion is your response is just 'it's insulin, end of story' or 'I know about insulin' etc.. You don't even address the fact that GH causes the insulin response. Also, the reason why there haven't been huge studies of the effects of massive amounts of GH on the human body is because it would be totally unethical and illegal. It's like giving people cancer to study them.

In studies where animals were given GH their organs and bodily tissues all grew as result. Ergo the name: Growth Hormone.

Over and out.

I will add that viseral fat plays a big role with these guy's stomachs. You mentioned that carb loading has been done for years, I know, I've been in and around the industry for more than 30 years and loading has been for at least as long as I have, but remember, way back when (when waists were small) carb loading was nearly like it is now, back then they might start loading a day, day and a half before, then the key was, was not to load so much to where your waist was bloated and pruposely keep the waist small.....not so today. If there in insulin involved, there has to be substantial carb intake.

[TrueGrit]

joe - the real question is this: do you think Kovacs can wipe his own ass?

[joelocal]

joe - the real question is this: do you think Kovacs can wipe his own ass?

LOL.....hell no, not after looking at that picture.....geez, could you imagine actually choosing to destroy yourself like that? What could possibly be running through some of these people's minds?

[NarcissisticDeity]

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