What would it take for you to believe?

[Deicide]

Thanks Trapezkerl

Out of respect to you, if you give me several books to choose from I will give one a try.  Please keep in mind while making possible selections for me that I'd like the book to present your side w/o displaying a blatant attempt to primarily disrespect the bible....this way it will likely be more palatable and will make me less apt to think defensively.

Also your selections should be somewhat simple for me to grasp and understand as since I'm not really that interested to read them; they should grab and keep my attention.

So what other suggestions do you have?  And could you give me a brief summary of them (or in a link) and also the background and the credentials of the author?

I will to try to read one.


Another thought is we could go over the book together and discuss it here.  Maybe everyone could read it and join the discussion?  We could call it Trapezkerl's Book Club   But I would want to pick the next book please!

None of the books I presented are 'disrespectful' to the Bible. They are scholarly works. I will pm you one, perhaps with some internet excerpts so you can read online.

[Hedgehog]

Thanks for providing those links Trapezkerl.  After briefly perusing the links, my answer to your above questions would have to be that I really wouldn't be interested in reading any of those. 

Why not?

[columbusdude82]

lol Do you say this because I said I wouldn't be interested in reading any of the books in the links Trapez posted?  They just don't interest me.  I'm also not interested in reading stuff like "Bridges Over Madison County."

Coldude, are you interested in reading books like "Surprised by Joy" "The Grand Miracle" and "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis? 

I started reading "Mere Christianity" and started making a record of all the logical fallacies, non sequiturs, and deceptive rhetorical tools he uses. It started to look like my list was going to be longer than the book itself!

[loco]

I have read 'Mere Christianity.' Terrible apologetics though apologetics always are.

I started reading "Mere Christianity" and started making a record of all the logical fallacies, non sequiturs, and deceptive rhetorical tools he uses. It started to look like my list was going to be longer than the book itself!

Your opinions, nothing more.  Dr. Francis S. Collins would disagree.  He became a believer after observing the faith of his critically ill patients and reading "Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis.

For others on this board who don't know, Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., is a physician-geneticist, noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes, and his leadership of the Human Genome Project (HGP). He is the director of the National Human Genome Research Institute (NHGRI).

Not that I care what Richard Dawkins thinks, but for those who do care, Richard Dawkins considers Francis S. Collins a good scientist, even though he is a Christian.

[columbusdude82]

Of course he's a great scientist... and that's because he keeps his religion out of his science

Just like he keeps his politics and sports team preferences out of his science!

As for "Mere Christianity," a more drab, colorless, and feeble "argument" of logical fallacies all strung together, I have never encountered!

Sorry loco but it's true!

[loco]

Of course he's a great scientist... and that's because he keeps his religion out of his science

Just like he keeps his politics and sports team preferences out of his science!

As for "Mere Christianity," a more drab, colorless, and feeble "argument" of logical fallacies all strung together, I have never encountered!

Sorry loco but it's true!

Don't apologize to me.  It's your opinion.

[columbusdude82]

CS Lewis isn't even a good writer of apologetics.

You want someone who can write with style, maybe you'd want to start with Adrian Rodgers. If his writing was anything like his preaching, then you'd be in for a treat

[loco]

CS Lewis isn't even a good writer of apologetics.

You want someone who can write with style, maybe you'd want to start with Adrian Rodgers. If his writing was anything like his preaching, then you'd be in for a treat

I've read "What Every Christian Ought to Know" by Adrian Rodgers.  He is a good writer.   

[Butterbean]

Why not?

They just didn't seem interesting to me (no offense to T-kerl).

I started reading "Mere Christianity" and started making a record of all the logical fallacies, non sequiturs, and deceptive rhetorical tools he uses. It started to look like my list was going to be longer than the book itself!

I was reading a thread here the other day and MCWAY was being accused of posting non sequiturs a lot and I did not agree.  I was telling my workout partner about how differently people seem to think here (obviously in what they believe but I was talking about mainly in our thought processes) and that sometimes certain comments made by either side make complete sense to the poster but some on the other side cannot seem to grasp what they are saying. 

Coldude, could you post a couple items that you were recording when trying to read "Mere Christianity" please?

[Butterbean]

I've read "What Every Christian Ought to Know" by Adrian Rodgers.  He is a good writer.   

Maybe that book will be T-kerl approved!

[columbusdude82]

Stella, I'll see if I have those notes lying around somewhere in a box... This was a long time ago.

[Deicide]

Maybe that book will be T-kerl approved!

Unlikely. Apologetics are utterly unconvincing. Apologia means defence and that is what it is, not a laying out of facts and evidence. I posted this when I first came here so I will do so again. It is basically my life creed.

My view is that atheistic existentialism is the high road where ultimately morality is an aesthetic about the world we choose to live in given existential abandonment and radical free will. There is no inherited and meaningful context and self-deception about such is the low road.The most profound thing is to be good simply because one chooses to do so - not for any received truth or dictate. Fuck primitive religion. This is the new religion. We are insignificant in a universe of collapsing stars and time parameters that we can't even comprehend, but to look that squarely in the face and transcend ourselves by the way we apply our freedom is to become an adult species - and if it all passes and nobody ever knew we did it then more is the profundity.

[Hedgehog]

They just didn't seem interesting to me (no offense to T-kerl).

Why not give one of them a chance?

[Butterbean]

Why not give one of them a chance?

I am...T-kerl graciously PMed me an excerpt from a radio show that I will listen to this afternoon