Author Topic: What would it take for you to believe?  (Read 6777 times)

Butterbean

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What would it take for you to believe?
« on: January 15, 2008, 06:49:49 AM »
In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?

The "Rapture?"

A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?

The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?

The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"

Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?


Anything?
R

Purge_WTF

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 07:24:17 AM »
In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?

The "Rapture?"

A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?

The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?

The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"

Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?


Anything?

  Stella, there will indeed be many people who bear witness to the things you mentioned and have a new outlook.

OzmO

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 08:07:30 AM »
By the time all that happens won't it not be too late?

mightymouse72

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 08:13:17 AM »
In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?

The "Rapture?"

A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?

The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?

The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"

Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?


Anything?


some people won't believe regardless of any prophecies that are fulfilled.

sadly enough, it'll take standing before God on judgement day for some people.
W

loco

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2008, 08:17:22 AM »

some people won't believe regardless of any prophecies that are fulfilled.

sadly enough, it'll take standing before God on judgement day for some people.


Luke 16:31
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Colossus_500

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 09:30:35 AM »
A defiant heart will only continue to harden. 

columbusdude82

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 10:29:34 AM »
Evidence!

Easy question :) I believe in a given proposition only in as much as there is evidence for it!

OzmO

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 10:39:03 AM »
In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?

The "Rapture?"

A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?

The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?

The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"

Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?


Anything?


It isn't the prophecies in the bible that make me not believe it's the 100% WOG. 

It's what's attributed as God in the Bible that makes me believe it isn't the 100% WOG

Decker

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 01:01:54 PM »

It isn't the prophecies in the bible that make me not believe it's the 100% WOG. 

It's what's attributed as God in the Bible that makes me believe it isn't the 100% WOG
I do not believe in the God of the old/new testament.

If Gideon comes down a blowing his horn, then that's some fairly irrefutable proof.  Same thing with Jesus condescending to earth in plain view.

Otherwise, those stories in the Bible are just that.

I ETA PI

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 01:06:59 PM »
To believe what?  Christianity? 

If all the verses of the bible suddenly became viable through the scientific method, I would consider it.
As long as everything else that exists in reality leads to a different conclusion, I'll be weighted in that direction. 

Some random occurance that a handful of idiots try to claim was prophecy isn't going to cut it. 

mightymouse72

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2008, 09:20:02 AM »
when you guys truly seek for and understand God's love for you that will be all the "evidence" you'll need.
 ;D
W

OzmO

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2008, 10:17:50 AM »
when you guys truly seek for and understand God's love for you that will be all the "evidence" you'll need.
 ;D

If you look  for a reason long enough, you will find one.

I fully understand that my belief in God is based purely on faith and not on concrete evidence.   The bible is not concrete evidence.  However, if it is good enough for you, more power to you.

ATHEIST

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2008, 01:32:15 PM »

I fully understand that my belief in God is based purely on faith and not on concrete evidence.   The bible is not concrete evidence. 

If God truely loved us as His children and wanted to afford all of us a chance to be saved why didnt He leave us something more substantial? rather than something that can be disputed? (there are so many discrepancies in the Bible, i dont want to bring that up but its true). different people have different doubts, no one is the same we were all created differently right. so naturally the people who were created to be more skeptical will have a more difficult time leaving it up to faith..is that fair? and is it fair that people in other countries are so much less exposed to the option of salvation? someone growing up in a country in Africa or a South American tribal village will never get exposed to Christianity.

Hedgehog

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2008, 11:32:29 PM »
In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?

The "Rapture?"

A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?

The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?

The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"

Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?


Anything?

How is this supposed to make anyone a believer?  ???

I have read the Bible several times, but never seen a prophecy about a Russian Army, much less about it invading "Israel".
As empty as paradise

ToxicAvenger

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2008, 07:23:54 AM »


Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?


Anything?

that holds true for the muslim faith also..they also believe in the returning or jesus..kinda funny to me to see christians hold exclusive rights to jesus...lol...

anyhow..


lemme shoot u in the face..with a nuke....and ya live without needing medical attention.....that'd do it
carpe` vaginum!

Butterbean

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2008, 09:49:24 AM »


I have read the Bible several times, but never seen a prophecy about a Russian Army, much less about it invading "Israel".
Some believe it is referenced in Ezekial 38 and 39.


that holds true for the muslim faith also..they also believe in the returning or jesus..kinda funny to me to see christians hold exclusive rights to jesus...lol...


I didn't know that.  How do they say He will return Toxy? 





lemme shoot u in the face..with a nuke....and ya live without needing medical attention.....that'd do it

That's interesting.  Some believe that the following refers to the antichrist receiving a fatal wound and recovering from it (probably not a nuke though  ;D)


Revelation 13:2-4
"...... The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"
R

loco

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2008, 12:09:15 PM »
that holds true for the muslim faith also..they also believe in the returning or jesus..

ProteinFarts is correct.  Here is an example:



The Signs of Jesus' Second Coming (Paperback)
by Harun Yahya (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Signs-Jesus-Second-Coming/dp/9756426497/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200595250&sr=1-6

Book Description:
The Qur'an and the related sayings of Prophets tell us that Jesus (pbuh) will come back to Earth again in the End Times, the times preceding the Day of Judgment. In addition, the signs of this event as revealed in the New Testament have parallels with those stated in the hadiths. Jesus return to Earth, a belief held by both Christians and Muslims, will end this world's all-pervasive cruelty and injustice and transform it into a place of peace, abundance, and justice. This book examines the signs of Prophet Jesus' (pbuh) second coming from the Islamic sources and how the signs that they provide have come true one by one. People witnessing these signs may, by God's Will, hope that his return is close. The world is also getting sociologically prepared for such a great event. The chain of events through which humanity has passed during the last two centuries has, both covertly and overtly, raised the expectation of a savior in the minds of people all over the world. People have increasingly seen that materialistic ideologies and lifestyles cannot save humanity; rather, they lead humanity closer to disaster and emptiness. This situation has caused many people to turn to the morality of religion. It is no coincidence that this sociological infrastructure has been established at a time when the signs of Prophet Jesus' (pbuh) second coming appear one after another. By God's Will, Prophet Jesus' (pbuh) return will cause religion's morality to pervade all over the world and all sincere believers to attain security. Along with all other believers, we hope that our Lord will honor us by letting us meet this blessed visitor and enable us to make the best preparations to meet him.


About the Author:
Adnan Oktar, nom de plume Harun Yahya (a.k.a Adnan Hoca) (born Ankara, 1956), is a prominent figure in Turkish creationism and a fervent advocate of creationism in the creation-evolution controversy. He is considered by some to be the leading Muslim advocate of creationism. He subscribes to Old Earth creationism.  He is against Zionism and Freemasonry and sees them as very interrelated movements, though he denounces anti-Semitism and terrorism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar

kinda funny to me to see christians hold exclusive rights to jesus...lol...

Where do you get that Christians hold exclusive rights to Jesus?  Nobody holds exclusive rights to Jesus.

What Christians believe about Jesus was written in Bible and in extra biblical historical records hundreds of years before Islam came into existence.

Hedgehog

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2008, 09:32:53 PM »
Some believe it is referenced in Ezekial 38 and 39.

Please, show me how it is referenced in Ezekiel 38 and 39. :)

I would be very happy to find that section where a Russian army is mentioned.
As empty as paradise

loco

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2008, 06:03:17 AM »
 Israel Warns World War III May be Biblical War of Gog and Magog
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123961

..."Channel 2 and Channel 10 TV showed the world map, sketching the basic alignment of the two opposing axes in a coming world war, in a manner evoking associations of the Gog and Magog prophecy for many viewers. The prophecy of Gog and Magog refers to a great world war centered on the Holy Land and Jerusalem and first appears in the book of Yechezkel (Ezekiel)."...

..."On one side were Israel, the United States, Britain, France and Germany.
On the other were Iran, Russia, China, Syria and North Korea."

Butterbean

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2008, 06:39:57 AM »
Israel Warns World War III May be Biblical War of Gog and Magog
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123961

..."Channel 2 and Channel 10 TV showed the world map, sketching the basic alignment of the two opposing axes in a coming world war, in a manner evoking associations of the Gog and Magog prophecy for many viewers. The prophecy of Gog and Magog refers to a great world war centered on the Holy Land and Jerusalem and first appears in the book of Yechezkel (Ezekiel)."...

..."On one side were Israel, the United States, Britain, France and Germany.
On the other were Iran, Russia, China, Syria and North Korea."
very interesting find loco!


Please, show me how it is referenced in Ezekiel 38 and 39. :)

I would be very happy to find that section where a Russian army is mentioned.

Here is a commentary on Eze 38:1-9 from www.i-amfaithweb.net

Ezekiel 38: 1-9

The Prophecy
1 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,
2 Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 and say, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against you, Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal:
4 and I will turn you about, and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you forth, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them handling swords;
5 Persia, Cush, and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
6 Gomer, and all his hordes; the house of Togarmah in the uttermost parts of the north, and all his hordes; even many peoples with you.
7 Be prepared, yes, prepare yourself, you, and all your companies who are assembled to you, and be a guard to them.
8 After many days you shall be visited: in the latter years you shall come into the land that is brought back from the sword, that is gathered out of many peoples, on the mountains of Israel, which have been a continual waste; but it is brought forth out of the peoples, and they shall dwell securely, all of them.
9 You shall ascend, you shall come like a storm, you shall be like a cloud to cover the land, you, and all your hordes, and many peoples with you.

The first thing to notice is that exact geographical locations are given (vs. 2, 5-6).
Many commentators are in agreement as to the countries involved; they are: Russia ( Magog being the name given to the general area of modern day Russia), Rosh is specifically Russia, Meshech is Moscow whilst Tubal is Tobolsk. Persia is Iran, Cush is Ethiopia, Put is Somalia (some would say, as do some translations, Lybia), Gomer is in modern day Germany and Togarmah is Armenia.
No Arab countries are mentioned as belonging to the coalition (Iran, although Islamic is not Arab).
The coalition of armies is headed by Gog the leader or prince of Russia and comprising of Russia, Iran, Ethiopia, Somalia (could be Lybia), Germany and Armenia; there could also be other countries involved although the 'even many peoples with you' of verse 6 could be a reference to the vast array of different cultures involved.


R

columbusdude82

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2008, 06:47:59 AM »
Yes, Stella, that's the most reasonable explanation:

The Jews writing their scriptures some 25 centuries ago were only forecasting what would happen in our times. They were talking about the contemporary international geopolitical state of affairs. They weren't talking about anyone else's time but ours.

I love how some people are so self-centered that they always read "Biblical prophecy" as referring to their own lifetimes. Apocalyptic cults and thinkers over the centuries always seemed to think that the prophets of ancient Israel had no better thing to do than tell them what was going to happen in their lifetimes.

Yes, that is the most reasonable explanation of them all...   

Butterbean

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2008, 06:54:55 AM »
Yes, Stella, that's the most reasonable explanation:

The Jews writing their scriptures some 25 centuries ago were only forecasting what would happen in our times. They were talking about the contemporary international geopolitical state of affairs. They weren't talking about anyone else's time but ours.

I love how some people are so self-centered that they always read "Biblical prophecy" as referring to their own lifetimes. Apocalyptic cults and thinkers over the centuries always seemed to think that the prophets of ancient Israel had no better thing to do than tell them what was going to happen in their lifetimes.

Yes, that is the most reasonable explanation of them all...   
Not sure where I said this would absolutely happen in "our times."  Could it?  Sure...but it could be hundreds or thousands of years from now. 

I love how some people are so closed-minded that they always .....oh, never mind ;D

R

columbusdude82

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2008, 06:58:00 AM »
Oh yes, that makes even more sense. ::)

Ancient Jews were really concerned about what would happen hundreds or thousands of years after our time that they put it in their scriptures... No, they weren't talking about their own time, their own world... Their world was so free of all concerns that they had the luxury of forecasting the distant future...

Butterbean

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2008, 06:59:23 AM »
Oh yes, that makes even more sense. ::)

Ancient Jews were really concerned about what would happen hundreds or thousands of years after our time that they put it in their scriptures... No, they weren't talking about their own time, their own world... Their world was so free of all concerns that they had the luxury of forecasting the distant future...
Interesting.  Have you ever read the bible columbusdude?
R

columbusdude82

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Re: What would it take for you to believe?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2008, 07:01:07 AM »
Interesting.  Have you ever read the bible columbusdude?

Yes, every once in a while, in between Black Mass services, selling my soul to the Devil, worshipping at the altar of Secular Humanism, and planning my eternity in Beelzebub's Sauna Spa ;)