Author Topic: "nutrition" professor tells students you must burn caffeine before calories...  (Read 7981 times)

BFP

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troponinnutrition!!!! i would love to have you be more involved on the nutrition board.  you seem extremely eductaed, and i know that justin harris is one of your guys...and he is a VERY knowledgeable athlete.  please help educate myself and the rest of this board! (lord knows there are alot of guys on here that dont know jack shit)

YOU KNOW JACK SHIT.  Ever occur to you that troponin IS Justin Harris? 

Jason

Necrosis

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YOU KNOW JACK SHIT.  Ever occur to you that troponin IS Justin Harris? 

Jason


i thought justin harris was an entity

candidizzle

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A 300 dollar a day coke habit isnt nutrition.  Hope this helps.

Jason
300 dollars a day?   well... actually, i was busting about an ounce a day, and street prices on the shit i was getting is 750..800 if i dont know you.   but since i bought in bulk it was like a 500 dollar a day habit. but thats only accounting for the cocaine costs..that doesnt inlcude all of the bullshit i bought when i was all yay'd out....a couple pairs of 2 hundred dollar sunglasses, hella outfits, protein shakes like every hour, a bunch of weed every night trying to coax myself asleep...and then just giving people shit because i ws being a "people person" hahaha.    





and yes, usmokepole,  believe you are corect


i will debate you on nutrition if you wish! im training in 2 mins..afte that when i walk home i will check to see if you have started a nutrition thread; and il gladly discuss/debate/educate you!

troponin

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your correct, but caffeine does more then just bind the adenosine receptor.

"You're"

It's similar to the adenosine molecule and binds to the adenosine receptor without activating it.  This reduction in adenosine causes an increase in dopamine.  Dopamine is a precursor to nor-epinephrine, which is a precursor to epinephrine.  
It also causes the build up of cAMP in the cells, this can cause it to prolong the effects of epinephrine like drugs (amphetamines, probably the substituted phenylethylamines, etc., etc.)  

There's a shitload of ways caffeine works.  The majority of it is oxidized to paraxanthine, which is why I focused on that.  


One of the most frustrating things about posting on the internet is the inability to post anything involving education.  As soon as you do, someone is pouring over your post, looking for mispellings, inaccuracies and finding some minor point to show their own education.  

I could have stolen all of that from the internet...it doesn't matter.  Caffeine doesn't need to be "burned" before calories are burned.  That is the point of the thread.  

I went to Wassamata U back in late 90's early 2000's.  I did my post-doctoral thesis on dopamine re-uptake inhibition on pygmy skinks fed tropane analogs of cocaine utilizing vinylcarbenoid precursors.  

One of the pygmy skinks survived, apparently unharmed, in my stomach for 11 weeks.  You can read about it on my "myspace" page.
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troponin

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i thought justin harris was an entity

haha!  I don't even know what that means, but I'm going to use it everytime I talk about myself in the 3rd person!

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BFP

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"You're"

It's similar to the adenosine molecule and binds to the adenosine receptor without activating it.  This reduction in adenosine causes an increase in dopamine.  Dopamine is a precursor to nor-epinephrine, which is a precursor to epinephrine.  
It also causes the build up of cAMP in the cells, this can cause it to prolong the effects of epinephrine like drugs (amphetamines, probably the substituted phenylethylamines, etc., etc.)  

There's a shitload of ways caffeine works.  The majority of it is oxidized to paraxanthine, which is why I focused on that.  


One of the most frustrating things about posting on the internet is the inability to post anything involving education.  As soon as you do, someone is pouring over your post, looking for mispellings, inaccuracies and finding some minor point to show their own education.  

I could have stolen all of that from the internet...it doesn't matter.  Caffeine doesn't need to be "burned" before calories are burned.  That is the point of the thread.  

I went to Wassamata U back in late 90's early 2000's.  I did my post-doctoral thesis on dopamine re-uptake inhibition on pygmy skinks fed tropane analogs of cocaine utilizing vinylcarbenoid precursors.  

One of the pygmy skinks survived, apparently unharmed, in my stomach for 11 weeks.  You can read about it on my "myspace" page.

I think that is what the siding on my house is made of.  Also, the rest of this post is useless without pics/vids/sworn statements/grand jury testimony. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Jason

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"You're"

It's similar to the adenosine molecule and binds to the adenosine receptor without activating it.  This reduction in adenosine causes an increase in dopamine.  Dopamine is a precursor to nor-epinephrine, which is a precursor to epinephrine.  
It also causes the build up of cAMP in the cells, this can cause it to prolong the effects of epinephrine like drugs (amphetamines, probably the substituted phenylethylamines, etc., etc.)  

There's a shitload of ways caffeine works.  The majority of it is oxidized to paraxanthine, which is why I focused on that.  


One of the most frustrating things about posting on the internet is the inability to post anything involving education.  As soon as you do, someone is pouring over your post, looking for mispellings, inaccuracies and finding some minor point to show their own education.  

I could have stolen all of that from the internet...it doesn't matter.  Caffeine doesn't need to be "burned" before calories are burned.  That is the point of the thread.  

I went to Wassamata U back in late 90's early 2000's.  I did my post-doctoral thesis on dopamine re-uptake inhibition on pygmy skinks fed tropane analogs of cocaine utilizing vinylcarbenoid precursors.  

One of the pygmy skinks survived, apparently unharmed, in my stomach for 11 weeks.  You can read about it on my "myspace" page.


i wasnt trying to "pour" over your post, just to make sure the info is correct. the prolonged action of camp was mentioned and the catecholamine increase is certainly a stimulant effect, like the psychostimulants you mentioned.

your "you're"=you are=you


so are you involved in any parkinsons research at all at the moment?


troponin

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so are you involved in any parkinsons research at all at the moment?



No, but if you have any dopamine reuptake inhibitors, I'll sample them. lol 
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Condor

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caffeine metabolism releases fat stores.
The act of "burning" caffine burns calories.  The professor is a moron.

This is the conclusion I was looking for, and the entire reason for my post.

How can this professor be so far off to think that caffeine must be "burned" to be used in the human body?


Necrosis

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No, but if you have any dopamine reuptake inhibitors, I'll sample them. lol 


im more of a GABA man myself, dopamine and me dont go together so well ;D

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300 dollars a day?   well... actually, i was busting about an ounce a day, and street prices on the shit i was getting is 750..800 if i dont know you.   but since i bought in bulk it was like a 500 dollar a day habit. but thats only accounting for the cocaine costs..that doesnt inlcude all of the bullshit i bought when i was all yay'd out....a couple pairs of 2 hundred dollar sunglasses, hella outfits, protein shakes like every hour, a bunch of weed every night trying to coax myself asleep...and then just giving people shit because i ws being a "people person" hahaha.   





and yes, usmokepole,  believe you are corect


i will debate you on nutrition if you wish! im training in 2 mins..afte that when i walk home i will check to see if you have started a nutrition thread; and il gladly discuss/debate/educate you!

Can't you see the adults are talking? So please, stfu already.

troponin

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im more of a GABA man myself, dopamine and me dont go together so well ;D

(3SR,4RS)-3,4-Epoxypiperidine-4-carboxylic acid isoguvacine oxide.


I told my doctor I had cataplexy and was allergic to MAOi's.  He didn't buy it.
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Bast000

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caffeine or any stimulant causes you to burn glycogen.  So caffeine burns calories.  caffeine is not an energy source.

aliamini

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Both caffeine and clen stimulate the CNS  … however the way they burn fat has nothing to do with teir effect of the CNS … clen basically forces you to uptake more oxygen thus increases the inner temperature … and that leads to burning fat … caffeine on the other hand stimulates the thyroid gland as well and releases T3 … if your gland has sufficient amount of iodine stored … you get this effect also when you feel sleepy but force yourself not to sleep … so the brain stimulates the thyroid to release T3 to keep you awake … that is the alert feeling you get from caffeine …

T3 increases metabolism … and that leads to burning more calories … and Caffeine suppresses insulin so that again will leads to not spiking insulin effect with is again good for not storing extra whatever

Researches and lab tests are being updated by the day and not all of the “prof.” are updated in their field … they just make a living out of it and assume they know everything cause once upon a time they contributed their life to study … just like doctors … they study for 7 years and get a “M.B.B.S.” then they think or believe that they know more about the human body and medicine than a regular person who is not in the medical field or have a medical background …

Deadpool

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troponinnutrition!!!! i would love to have you be more involved on the nutrition board.  you seem extremely eductaed, and i know that justin harris is one of your guys...and he is a VERY knowledgeable athlete.  please help educate myself and the rest of this board! (lord knows there are alot of guys on here that dont know jack shit)

yeah what is your education?  you sound quite knowledgeable
X

troponin

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Researches and lab tests are being updated by the day and not all of the “prof.” are updated in their field … they just make a living out of it and assume they know everything cause once upon a time they contributed their life to study … just like doctors … they study for 7 years and get a “M.B.B.S.” then they think or believe that they know more about the human body and medicine than a regular person who is not in the medical field or have a medical background …


Tell that "7 years" deal to someone giving you a heart cath. 
He'll love that, after 4 years of pre-med, 4 years of med school, internship, 3 year internal med fellowship, 3 years of cardiology fellowship, and another 1-3 years of interventional fellowship.....
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Disgusted

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Bottom line is that caffeine pretty much sucks as a fat burner and is not that great of a stimulant, but try going without it for a day or two and notice the headache that you will get.  ;D

Back in 1991 I came across a pretty potent fat burner which I will keep nameless. Anyway, this stuff was extremely efficient at stripping away fat especially in the abdominal area. I did a ton of research on it  (what it was supposed to be) and could never really find out exactly how it worked. Guys were consistently losing an inch off the waist in about a week. It seemed to reach it's peak at about 30 days. It also had a slight anabolic affect, seemed to increase the sex drive also.

About ten years ago a guy that I knew got pulled over and the cops grabbed the bottle and eventually had it tested. Test came back and said it contained 90mg of caffeine per tab. I  had some of the same batch so I had it tested for caffeine and sure enough it contained 90mg of caffeine, but I knew there was something else in there because of how it worked. I knew that the cops had tested it tested for just about everthing so I knew that it had no other  known type of stimulant in it. The only other thing that the lab said was in there was some other kind of xanthine derivative in it that they could not identify, but  they said that there was not enough of it in there to make a difference, but IMO that had to be the thing that made it work so well. Best fat burner bar none I had ever used. Put clen and GH to shame.

fsu_pain_train

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Troponin is really reaching here, using big complicated words to remind us of 'just how much he knows' about these subjects.  How I'm supposed to know your information isn't copy-pasted, I'm not sure.  My point being I doubt it's necessary to go into such depth here, I'm sure explaining your point in lamens terms would suffice.  Again and again it seems like you go out of your way to lose people, as if that proves you're intelligent or something.   ::) 
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troponin

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Bottom line is that caffeine pretty much sucks as a fat burner and is not that great of a stimulant, but try going without it for a day or two and notice the headache that you will get.  ;D

Back in 1991 I came across a pretty potent fat burner which I will keep nameless. Anyway, this stuff was extremely efficient at stripping away fat especially in the abdominal area. I did a ton of research on it  (what it was supposed to be) and could never really find out exactly how it worked. Guys were consistently losing an inch off the waist in about a week. It seemed to reach it's peak at about 30 days. It also had a slight anabolic affect, seemed to increase the sex drive also.

About ten years ago a guy that I knew got pulled over and the cops grabbed the bottle and eventually had it tested. Test came back and said it contained 90mg of caffeine per tab. I  had some of the same batch so I had it tested for caffeine and sure enough it contained 90mg of caffeine, but I knew there was something else in there because of how it worked. I knew that the cops had tested it tested for just about everthing so I knew that it had no other  known type of stimulant in it. The only other thing that the lab said was in there was some other kind of xanthine derivative in it that they could not identify, but  they said that there was not enough of it in there to make a difference, but IMO that had to be the thing that made it work so well. Best fat burner bar none I had ever used. Put clen and GH to shame.

I'm surprised the xanthines aren't used more in marketing for fat loss products.  I don't believe they would work particularly well, but the wording you could use in the ads would convince every 16 year old that they're buying something "cutting edge."
Especially if you marketed some xanthines with the addition of cAMP. 

"Superxanth" is the most exciting fat burner to hit the market yet.  With our patent pending formula of Xanthines, which are produced with purine degredation, the metabolic destructive effects of adenosine are grinded to a halt.  Adenosine is like a "sleeping pill" for fat loss, while superxanth is a jolt of ice water right to the face of Adenosine.  Superxanth is also remarkable in its safety compared to the harmful sympathomimetics that dry out your mouth and take away your desire to eat the food necessary for growth!  By inhibiting phosphodiesterase, the potent formula of Superxanth allows our potent brand of cAMP to work its magic, literally destroying any fat lying in its path!  As Superxanth powers through your body, muscle growth and shredded mass is left in its wake! 
Check out these before and after photos!"


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troponin

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Troponin is really reaching here, using big complicated words to remind us of 'just how much he knows' about these subjects.  How I'm supposed to know your information isn't copy-pasted, I'm not sure.  My point being I doubt it's necessary to go into such depth here, I'm sure explaining your point in lamens terms would suffice.  Again and again it seems like you go out of your way to lose people, as if that proves you're intelligent or something.   ::) 

You're not supposed to know my information isn't copy and pasted.  It doesn't matter if it is.  It's just explaining why the professor is wrong. 

I did break it down to "the act of burning caffeine burns calories.  The professor is a moron." 
I can't break it down much more than that. 

I even spelled caffeine wrong in that original reply.....I should have copy and pasted.
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The Squadfather

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You're not supposed to know my information isn't copy and pasted.  It doesn't matter if it is.  It's just explaining why the professor is wrong. 

I did break it down to "the act of burning caffeine burns calories.  The professor is a moron." 
I can't break it down much more than that. 

I even spelled caffeine wrong in that original reply.....I should have copy and pasted.
yeah maybe you should describe it in "lamens" terms so guys like FSU can understand it Justin. ;D

Necrosis

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Troponin is really reaching here, using big complicated words to remind us of 'just how much he knows' about these subjects.  How I'm supposed to know your information isn't copy-pasted, I'm not sure.  My point being I doubt it's necessary to go into such depth here, I'm sure explaining your point in lamens terms would suffice.  Again and again it seems like you go out of your way to lose people, as if that proves you're intelligent or something.   ::) 

when your educated about particular topics its almost impossible, in fact ridiculous, to use non-medical jargon that complicates the issue and requires more words. they are the best words as they often describe multiple effects, or specific effects.


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Well here's what I've been considering Justin...ever notice how much easier it is to lift weights or do cardio all amped up on caffeine and ephedrine?  And alot of that comes from the neurological priming that stimulants provide...they allow the nervous impulses to travel much more efficiently from brain to muscle and back, your whole nervous system is revved...you have a higher firing rate of the signal and you recruit more motor units when the signal reaches the muscle.  These things are all pretty much related to there being more "charge" in your wiring.  It would seem to me that lifting weights or taking steps would be much more calorically efficient if your electrical sytem was hyper-responsive...I guess what you're gotta look at is at what point the ATP is used to generate the contractions...more ATP production would come from more calories being broken down, no?  If there's alot of help to get a stronger contraction through stimulant use, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that it would require fewer calories to perform the same amount of work?  Forget about how much actual "fat" is metabolized, I'm just saying you might actually burn more calories doing the same workload off stimulants than on.  The thing is that when you are "on" stimulants you normally do more of a workload...go faster, longer, or lift more, for more reps.  Etc...

troponin

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Well here's what I've been considering Justin...ever notice how much easier it is to lift weights or do cardio all amped up on caffeine and ephedrine?  And alot of that comes from the neurological priming that stimulants provide...they allow the nervous impulses to travel much more efficiently from brain to muscle and back, your whole nervous system is revved...you have a higher firing rate of the signal and you recruit more motor units when the signal reaches the muscle.  These things are all pretty much related to there being more "charge" in your wiring.  It would seem to me that lifting weights or taking steps would be much more calorically efficient if your electrical sytem was hyper-responsive...I guess what you're gotta look at is at what point the ATP is used to generate the contractions...more ATP production would come from more calories being broken down, no?  If there's alot of help to get a stronger contraction through stimulant use, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that it would require fewer calories to perform the same amount of work?  Forget about how much actual "fat" is metabolized, I'm just saying you might actually burn more calories doing the same workload off stimulants than on.  The thing is that when you are "on" stimulants you normally do more of a workload...go faster, longer, or lift more, for more reps.  Etc...

I don't see how the calories would change.  A calorie is just a measure of the amount of heat it takes to raise 1g of water 1 degree celcius.  A Calorie with a capital C, is 1kg of water 1 degree celcius. 

I can't imagine that the contractions involved in any given workload would require an appreciable change in calorie consumption. 
The amount energy required to move X amount of workload is going to be the same for that X amount no matter the circumstances.  The methods of contraction (Na/K pump) is extremely efficient.  I would imagine that as a necessity of survival, it would be effecient. 

There's going to be MUCH greater variance in the storage capacity of the body.  A glycogen depleted body may have as much as a 4,000 excess calorie consumption variance.....assuming 1,000g of glycogen storage potential. 

I would argue that stimulation of the 'fight or flight' mechanisms in the body would have a greater caloric impact.  The body is going to be less interested in anabolism in a state of nervous system stimulation....the caloric amount that could be varied by that (how much muscle won't be built due to the decreased emphasis on anabolism, how much glycogen won't be stored due to the decreased glycogenesis in a state of nervous system stimulation) is going to be much more than any potential decrease/increase in neural effeciency.



And...in the end, it won't matter. 
The person that stays on their diet and remains focused is going to progress the best.  One cheat, mishap, splurge...one skipped session of cardio, one bite of candy, etc., is going to cause more of a caloric change than the above could ever cause. 

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my head hurts

that's why I am not a nutritionnist  ;D