for the christians or other religious people

[Necrosis]

If by "religious practice" you mean attending church, then I plead guilty.  About 50 out of 52 weeks of the year.  Other than church, the vast majority of my "social network" is non religious. 

So a faith-based belief is irrational?  How you figure?  Are you telling me there are no faith-based beliefs in your life at all? 

Seeing the results of my faith has nothing to do with emotion.  Yes it's subjective, but all personal experiences are subjective. 

I have no idea why God won't grow amputee another limb, nor do I know how a person wound up with this hypothetical missing a limb in the first place.   

yes faith is irrational, whats so hard to swallow about that. faith is not a rational practice.

so it seems like ive been right with my assumptions, you go to chruch like i suspect unlike atheists, and your belief is all faith based hence not objective at all. if you where objective you would clearly see that your belief in god if christian is based on location and your god is just as unlikely as all the other gods you dismiss for some reason. why do you dismiss horus the sun god? paganism predates christianity and has similar stories.

[Deicide]

yes faith is irrational, whats so hard to swallow about that. faith is not a rational practice.

so it seems like ive been right with my assumptions, you go to chruch like i suspect unlike atheists, and your belief is all faith based hence not objective at all. if you where objective you would clearly see that your belief in god if christian is based on location and your god is just as unlikely as all the other gods you dismiss for some reason. why do you dismiss horus the sun god? paganism predates christianity and has similar stories.

Because tradition and authority is not on the side of Horus-Re!

[Dos Equis]

yes faith is irrational, whats so hard to swallow about that. faith is not a rational practice.

so it seems like ive been right with my assumptions, you go to chruch like i suspect unlike atheists, and your belief is all faith based hence not objective at all. if you where objective you would clearly see that your belief in god if christian is based on location and your god is just as unlikely as all the other gods you dismiss for some reason. why do you dismiss horus the sun god? paganism predates christianity and has similar stories.

Faith in something that produces no results is irrational.  Faith in something that reveals itself to you in many ways time and time again is completely rational.  Lucky for me my faith in God has resulted in plenty of tangible blessings.  Sounds pretty rational to me. 

You didn't say I went to church, you mentioned "social networks of religious folks."  If that means going to church, then yes your assumption that I go to church is correct.

What I hear you saying is if I don't agree with you, then I'm not being objective.  Doesn't work that way.     

[Necrosis]

Faith in something that produces no results is irrational.  Faith in something that reveals itself to you in many ways time and time again is completely rational.  Lucky for me my faith in God has resulted in plenty of tangible blessings.  Sounds pretty rational to me. 

You didn't say I went to church, you mentioned "social networks of religious folks."  If that means going to church, then yes your assumption that I go to church is correct.

What I hear you saying is if I don't agree with you, then I'm not being objective.  Doesn't work that way.     

yes it does.


objectivity, objectiveness
 
   judgment based on observable phenomena and uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices 


you fail all these requirements.


faith

rational
 
   having its source in or being guided by the intellect (distinguished from experience or emotion); "a rational analysis" 

faith of any kind by definition is irrational in that it is based on subjectivity and experience and requires no solid evidence, your anecdotal evidence based on emotion and beleif will not suffice. if you dismiss all other religions you should rationally and objectively dismiss yours based on the arguments obviously being overlapping.

relgious networks could only mean religious practice to me, tell me of another specific religious "network". i was implying chruch and its support structures.


there is nothing wrong with faith, its just irrational. i have no problem admitting i have faith in things, and that its irrational. however, i sometimes find myself thinking about something out "there" etc.  and im fine with letting myself go down that path at particular times. after all we are just animated matter and anything i can do to increase my quality of life i will do as in the end it wont matter one bit. however, im against these irrational beleifs affecting others lives, science and knowledge. I dislike chrisitians who tell me im going to hell. i hate people that push their beleifs on others, with no evidence and try to impeed human progress with such theories as creationism and young earth.

[MCWAY]

i dont care about the atheist to all other religions as thats been discussed. would you guys admit that you dismiss other relgions for valid reasons, but do not critically examine yours as you would others?

Why don't YOU admit, that atheists believe that there is NO deity and, therefore, anyone who believes that THERE IS A DEITY (regardless of how many other deities he may or may not dismiss) is NOT an atheist?

[Necrosis]

Why don't YOU admit, that atheists believe that there is NO deity and, therefore, anyone who believes that THERE IS A DEITY (regardless of how many other deities he may or may not dismiss) is NOT an atheist?

ok.

your stance is atheistic in nature is all i said, i didnt claim you where an atheist as its obvious your a theologian.

[OTHstrong]

yes faith is irrational, whats so hard to swallow about that. faith is not a rational practice.

so it seems like ive been right with my assumptions, you go to chruch like i suspect unlike atheists, and your belief is all faith based hence not objective at all. if you where objective you would clearly see that your belief in god if christian is based on location and your god is just as unlikely as all the other gods you dismiss for some reason. why do you dismiss horus the sun god? paganism predates christianity and has similar stories.

WOW....you seem to know a lot about beachbum, do you know his middle name? Do you know his birthday too. You talk about rational thinking when your questioning why someone doesn't believe in other religions. Are you suggesting that beachbum is closed minded because he believes other religions to be not fully true. The truth only comes in one direction not 2 so it would be irrational to believe in more then one religion. You talk about God being at fault for sin, this my friend is called making excuses in life and based on the way you think it is my opinion that you are the type of person that if (only an example, don't get mad) you beat up your wife or girlfriend you would say "It's her fault she provoked me".
God simply introduced us to freedom of choice not to sin.

Genesis ch.4 v.7  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

[Necrosis]

WOW....you seem to know a lot about beachbum, do you know his middle name? Do you know his birthday too. You talk about rational thinking when your questioning why someone doesn't believe in other religions. Are you suggesting that beachbum is closed minded because he believes other religions to be not fully true. The truth only comes in one direction not 2 so it would be irrational to believe in more then one religion. You talk about God being at fault for sin, this my friend is called making excuses in life and based on the way you think it is my opinion that you are the type of person that if (only an example, don't get mad) you beat up your wife or girlfriend you would say "It's her fault she provoked me".
God simply introduced us to freedom of choice not to sin.

Genesis ch.4 v.7  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

watch the video i posted, god has every hair on your body and event in your life planned does he not? he also plans your birth and death according to the bible, god knows all.

therefore he creates people with a purpose of sinning, and then condems them. this is ridiculous and childish.

ill be interested in your response.

faith is irrational in any manner, read the definition.

[tonymctones]

watch the video i posted, god has every hair on your body and event in your life planned does he not? he also plans your birth and death according to the bible, god knows all.

therefore he creates people with a purpose of sinning, and then condems them. this is ridiculous and childish.

ill be interested in your response.

faith is irrational in any manner, read the definition.

smoke i havent seen a lot of your other posts but it somewhat seems that you are seeking answers yourself. If thats the case why not have a conversation instead of an arguement. It seems like you want some irreputable evidence for the existance of God, when the evidence resides in each individual person. whats proof for me might not be proof for you. Science believe it or not is subjective as well although be it a lot more objective than religion.

[Necrosis]

smoke i havent seen a lot of your other posts but it somewhat seems that you are seeking answers yourself. If thats the case why not have a conversation instead of an arguement. It seems like you want some irreputable evidence for the existance of God, when the evidence resides in each individual person. whats proof for me might not be proof for you. Science believe it or not is subjective as well although be it a lot more objective than religion.

the evidence for a deity is far more appealing then a christian god.

he is easily disproved.

all loving-yet invented murderers, sin etc

all knowing-yet condems people to death

seletively answers prayer etc...

the stories in the bible have him drowing the entire planet because they have sinned, yet it is mans inherent nature to sin. he considers polygamy a sin yet some animals are monogamous and some are not, are those animals sinning?

its all really ridiculous if you ask me.

[tonymctones]

the evidence for a deity is far more appealing then a christian god.

he is easily disproved.

all loving-yet invented murderers, sin etc

all knowing-yet condems people to death

seletively answers prayer etc...

the stories in the bible have him drowing the entire planet because they have sinned, yet it is mans inherent nature to sin. he considers polygamy a sin yet some animals are monogamous and some are not, are those animals sinning?

its all really ridiculous if you ask me.

lol thats not true he answers every prayer it just not always with a yes, how do you know that God is not saving these people from a horrible fate just hypothetically?

was I right about you seeking answers about your own faith?

[Necrosis]

lol thats not true he answers every prayer it just not always with a yes, how do you know that God is not saving these people from a horrible fate just hypothetically?

was I right about you seeking answers about your own faith?

im not really seeking answers im really just fucking around on this board as the discussion is less then intellectual at points and the ridiculousness of bible stories would never enter a serious advanced debate. i mean do you swallow the noahs ark story, talking snakes?

i continually revise my beleifs so i geuss you could be right. i never settle on one thought and always challenge it.

[tonymctones]

im not really seeking answers im really just fucking around on this board as the discussion is less then intellectual at points and the ridiculousness of bible stories would never enter a serious advanced debate. i mean do you swallow the noahs ark story, talking snakes?

i continually revise my beleifs so i geuss you could be right. i never settle on one thought and always challenge it.

heres my problem with the the way the bible is viewed by many, the Bible as I understand it was written by men, which to me means that it is at times exagerrated and at times skewed. Many people feel that when the Bible says that "fire fell from the sky" and that story about noah to be true to every word. It could however mean that there was a local flood that was in the authors mind what he might consider the "entire world" as maybe he didnt know any better. Also fire from the sky could mean that there was lightning and it started fires.

[tonymctones]

im not really seeking answers im really just fucking around on this board as the discussion is less then intellectual at points and the ridiculousness of bible stories would never enter a serious advanced debate. i mean do you swallow the noahs ark story, talking snakes?

i continually revise my beleifs so i geuss you could be right. i never settle on one thought and always challenge it.

I really have to ask then if your simply here to argue whats wrong with you, argueing over the internet is mental masturbation it gets you no where. There is no point your not going to change their minds and their not going to change yours so why waste your time

[Necrosis]

heres my problem with the the way the bible is viewed by many, the Bible as I understand it was written by men, which to me means that it is at times exagerrated and at times skewed. Many people feel that when the Bible says that "fire fell from the sky" and that story about noah to be true to every word. It could however mean that there was a local flood that was in the authors mind what he might consider the "entire world" as maybe he didnt know any better. Also fire from the sky could mean that there was lightning and it started fires.

it does only a moron would think otherwise imo.

[Necrosis]

I really have to ask then if your simply here to argue whats wrong with you, argueing over the internet is mental masturbation it gets you no where. There is no point your not going to change their minds and their not going to change yours so why waste your time

arguing in life gets you no where, you rarely change anyones mind the internet is not a special forum.

however this is really the only platform for being open with my thoughts as if i said this shit to my christian friends they would lose there shit. i just dont discuss it and refuse to listen to there non sense.


witness brother witnessss.

[tonymctones]

arguing in life gets you no where, you rarely change anyones mind the internet is not a special forum.

however this is really the only platform for being open with my thoughts as if i said this shit to my christian friends they would lose there shit. i just dont discuss it and refuse to listen to there non sense.


witness brother witnessss.

I understand where your coming from my religious friends as well are very set in their beliefs and are not open to talk at least not what most would consider the devout ones. Thats why Ive come here as well but it seems that at times you are just looking to start an arguement which if that is the case is fairly petty. My point is this if your here to perhaps find answers for yourself and are using this board to talk to others thats great, but if your here to start arguements with people and make fun of believers than thats not cool.

[Necrosis]

I understand where your coming from my religious friends as well are very set in their beliefs and are not open to talk at least not what most would consider the devout ones. Thats why Ive come here as well but it seems that at times you are just looking to start an arguement which if that is the case is fairly petty. My point is this if your here to perhaps find answers for yourself and are using this board to talk to others thats great, but if your here to start arguements with people and make fun of believers than thats not cool.

im here to understand why people beleive in magic etc..

like talking snakes, and noahs ark etc.. if i told you a talking snake said something to me you would assume im schizo

[OzmO]

im here to understand why people beleive in magic etc..

like talking snakes, and noahs ark etc.. if i told you a talking snake said something to me you would assume im schizo

We believe in magic becuase at the core we are still hunter gatherers looking for patterns to explain why things become the way they are.  Our own mortality beckons an explanation to things we don't understand.     We Dance a certain dance and have a successful hunt and our pattern seeking minds think dancing had something to do with it.   Instead of the fact that we were down wind from our prey.

[Deedee]

We believe in magic becuase at the core we are still hunter gatherers looking for patterns to explain why things become the way they are.  Our own mortality beckons an explanation to things we don't understand.     We Dance a certain dance and have a successful hunt and our pattern seeking minds think dancing had something to do with it.   Instead of the fact that we were down wind from our prey.

I'm going to expand on that... this article was very interesting I thought.  Explains a lot about how and why we believe what we do. Easy to comprehend for simpletons like myself.


P950:3, 86:1.1 Aside from the natural worship urge, early evolutionary religion had its roots of origin in the human experiences of chance -- so-called luck, commonplace happenings. Primitive man was a food hunter. The results of hunting must ever vary, and this gives certain origin to those experiences which man interprets as good luck and bad luck. Mischance was a great factor in the lives of men and women who lived constantly on the ragged edge of a precarious and harassed existence.

P950:4, 86:1.2 The limited intellectual horizon of the savage so concentrates the attention upon chance that luck becomes a constant factor in his life. Primitive Urantians struggled for existence, not for a standard of living; they lived lives of peril in which chance played an important role. The constant dread of unknown and unseen calamity hung over these savages as a cloud of despair which effectively eclipsed every pleasure; they lived in constant dread of doing something that would bring bad luck. Superstitious savages always feared a run of good luck; they viewed such good fortune as a certain harbinger of calamity.

P950:5, 86:1.3 This ever-present dread of bad luck was paralyzing. Why work hard and reap bad luck -- nothing for something -- when one might drift along and encounter good luck -- something for nothing? Unthinking men forget good luck -- take it for granted -- but they painfully remember bad luck.

P950:6, 86:1.4 Early man lived in uncertainty and in constant fear of chance -- bad luck. Life was an exciting game of chance; existence was a gamble. It is no wonder that partially civilized people still believe in chance and evince lingering predispositions to gambling. Primitive man alternated between two potent interests: the passion of getting something for nothing and the fear of getting nothing for something. And this gamble of existence was the main interest and the supreme fascination of the early savage mind.

Continues... http://urantiabook.org/newbook/ub/ppr086_1.html

[OzmO]

And what you posted continues today in Las Vegas 

[loco]

We believe in magic becuase at the core we are still hunter gatherers looking for patterns to explain why things become the way they are.  Our own mortality beckons an explanation to things we don't understand.     We Dance a certain dance and have a successful hunt and our pattern seeking minds think dancing had something to do with it.   Instead of the fact that we were down wind from our prey.

Mm, how does this apply to Christians who follow a Messiah who promises, not a "successful hunt", but instead promises poverty, suffering and persecution for spreading his message, helping the weak, and loving those who want to kill them?

[OzmO]

Mm, how does this apply to Christians who follow a Messiah who promises, not a "successful hunt", but instead promises poverty, suffering and persecution for spreading his message, helping the weak, and loving those who want to kill them?

My post was about why people believe in things that aren't real.  As far as, Jesus is concerned, it's about hope of life after death.

[Deedee]

And what you posted continues today in Las Vegas 

Actually, between the gambling and the 24/7 buffet meals, Las Vegas IS a savage's paradise.   

[Deedee]

Mm, how does this apply to Christians who follow a Messiah who promises, not a "successful hunt", but instead promises poverty, suffering and persecution for spreading his message, helping the weak, and loving those who want to kill them?

Of course it applies. Read the article I posted above if you want to know why.

Jesus's followers were already poor and downtrodden. He just made it palatable for the hopeless to exist on this earth with his promises of something beyond death... or, paradise in the hereafter.  Plus, on the practical side, Christians didn't mind as much getting thrown into arenas with bloodthirsty lions for the amusement of the Romans, since they believed they were heading for heaven and away from their miserable existences anyway. With the fear of death banished, it worked for everyone.