Science of Steriods

[Princess L]

on National Geographic Channel NOW

Sunday, February 3, 2008, at 10P
It is one of the most controversial issues of our day, jeopardizing the health and smearing the reputations of Olympians, professional sports players and even high school athletes. The government has declared them illegal without a prescription, athletes call them unfair, and some doctors say they are potentially deadly. What are the real dangers of these drugs? We've seen what's happening outside the body; now NGC reveals what's happening inside the body, in the Science of Steroids.
Also airs:
Monday, February 4, 1A
Wednesday, February 13, 7P

[busyB]

Not on the West Coast....

Have it set to record on T-Vo.

[thelamefalsehood]

I was surprised, it was pretty open minded. But of course the ass hat Steve Michalik was on there preaching the horrors of roids, blaming his liver tumor on them, forgetting to mention he took 100 d-bol a day. I'd give it a B- overall, definitely worth watching though.

[Vet]

Dont' have cable. 

[DirtyDirt]

i was concerned with one thing that was said about the good cholesterol (HDL?)i was diagnosed a couple years back with mine being low, honestly i really haven't thought much about it until last night. I don't consider myself a juice head, i'm more off gear than i am on. when i was told i had low cholesterol i asked the Dr what to do about it, he said "we have to watch it, there is no way to raise it." Probably less then 2 weeks away from begining my next cycle, how concerned should i be about this?

[Luv2Hurt]

i was concerned with one thing that was said about the good cholesterol (HDL?)i was diagnosed a couple years back with mine being low, honestly i really haven't thought much about it until last night. I don't consider myself a juice head, i'm more off gear than i am on. when i was told i had low cholesterol i asked the Dr what to do about it, he said "we have to watch it, there is no way to raise it." Probably less then 2 weeks away from begining my next cycle, how concerned should i be about this?

You should of course be concerned.  If you went in to it without any caution that would be foolish.  I saw the special too at least most of it (thanks Princess) and would say some of it was good. 

The guy who was the father of the baseball player I feel sorry for but to blame steroids for what happened there is quite a stretch.  He may not want to be looking at the real causes of his son's suicide.

Through out the years people who smoked weed always said it was not bad for you, "the doctors are stupid"  I see a similar type of reaction from people who take gear, at least the ones who even have a clue to the health risks.  Some people are completely ignorant about them and take them anyway.

I'm guessing infrequent, short, fairly low dose cycles will not do too much long term damage to someone.

But do agree with what Mihalik said about "what goes up, must come down"  Sometimes it comes crashing down hard.  Its the way of the universe, there is no way around this.
There is a price to pay for everything.

Unless you are deficient and decide to take therapeutic doses for medical reasons AAS have no part in the healthy human.  The reality is you would be better off without them. 

[Arnold jr]

Unless you are deficient and decide to take therapeutic doses for medical reasons AAS have no part in the healthy human.  The reality is you would be better off without them. 

Are you only referring to bodybuilding level doses/cycles/etc?

I didn't see the show...hope it airs again.

[Luv2Hurt]

Are you only referring to bodybuilding level doses/cycles/etc?

I didn't see the show...hope it airs again.

Not sure what you mean?  I thought I made the distinction between someone who has an actual medical need (IE hypogonadism) and recreational use.

[Arnold jr]

Not sure what you mean?  I thought I made the distinction between someone who has an actual medical need (IE hypogonadism) and recreational use.

OK, I get you...even so, I disagree.

Granted, some of the things some of us may have done, may very well be going "too far." But I'm still a firm believer that AAS use that is beyond HRT limits can be very beneficial to most people, without serious risk. Again, this does not include what many here may do themselves.

[local hero]

they used a clip of michalik on a british version of the doco... what a fuckn prick... did he say that the steroids stay in your body for years and years and go onto cause heart attacks and cancers???  obviously the next day at work my life wasnt worth living, as they had the the doco about valentino a week or so before that..

far as im concerned, steroids and training are my vice, without a vice u might as well cease living...

[muscle19]

I'm a firm believer that if used correctly, proper diet practices, proper training and cardio regimens, you can do steepida safely! Obviously, you have to look at your family history wheather you would have cholesterol problems, BP problems and if so, do the right things to prevent it for the most part! It is the amounts that people take and the OTHER drugs along with juice that can pose a problem with your body! Taking 500mg test couple times a year with some orals here or there isn't, in my opinion going to cause liver disease! Did that ex-bodybuilder say how much orals he was taking? Probably not! Lol. Anything in excess can cause problems! If used right, I see no problem. Do you all agree?

[DirtyDirt]

i agree, i think in moderation along with being monitored by a doctor is smooth sailing...

[muscle19]

But even if you aren't monitored by a doc, regular blood tests before, on, and after pct is a great way of knowing what's going on! You have these guys that have liver failure that probably did ass loads of oral roids for way longer than they were suppose too! Moderation is the key to this game, excess will only hurt you! Some may handle and could handle it but genetics play a big role in how these meds will react in your body. I haven't been perfect, been on do awhile thinking this was the right thing to do, now I switched to prop and dropped the other drugs and added winny tabs so I can cycle off properly! I'm getting blood tests now and from now on, ill run safer cycles but still my goal is muscle mass! I love this game and I wanna be in it for the long haul! Not croke at 50 with a heart attack but ANY non juicers can die of a heart attack at 50, so who's to say really. As long as you aren't running HIGH levels of juice and cycle off properly, I see no harm! I even gave up alcohol, weed and my diet is strict! One cheat meal a wk, that's it! Watch my sodium and BP ed! My health is a lot more important than 10 pounds of muscle if done in a un healthy or risky way!

[Luv2Hurt]

If you use gear in a responsible manner lets say 500mg a week for 10 week cycles, many here might say this is probally pretty safe.  I see that as a waste of time, health and legal risk.  Cycling on and off for short cycles at low doses will do nothing for you in the long term.  The recovery stage on something like that will set you back to where you were before you took the juice.  And each time it will get harder to recover I could give a f*ck what kind of PCT voodoo you try and sling.

You would be better off staying natural.

If your goals are to truly get big and stay big you need to stay on cycle, just like the top guys do. This crap, cycle for 16 weeks take 8 weeks off and start again is a joke.  You will not have recovered in 8 weeks.  I know "super" guys are gonna say "BS I'm fully recovered in 4 weeks"  I say bullshit lets see the blood work (full panel including hormone levels) if you are gonna say that, cause there is really no other way to know.  So in essence you have never recovered your natural health and basically it will start to deteriorate as the small bits of damage to your heart, liver and kidneys just keeps adding up.

So here is a safe way to cycle 500mg test a week, 30mg d-bol a day for 12 weeks, off for 11 months, another 12 weeks on off 11 months.  You ain't getting nowhere the safe way.  So what most people think is safe, is in reality not.

[Arnold jr]

If you use gear in a responsible manner lets say 500mg a week for 10 week cycles, many here might say this is probally pretty safe.  I see that as a waste of time, health and legal risk.  Cycling on and off for short cycles at low doses will do nothing for you in the long term.  The recovery stage on something like that will set you back to where you were before you took the juice.  And each time it will get harder to recover I could give a f*ck what kind of PCT voodoo you try and sling.

You would be better off staying natural.

If your goals are to truly get big and stay big you need to stay on cycle, just like the top guys do. This crap, cycle for 16 weeks take 8 weeks off and start again is a joke.  You will not have recovered in 8 weeks.  I know "super" guys are gonna say "BS I'm fully recovered in 4 weeks"  I say bullshit lets see the blood work (full panel including hormone levels) if you are gonna say that, cause there is really no other way to know.  So in essence you have never recovered your natural health and basically it will start to deteriorate as the small bits of damage to your heart, liver and kidneys just keeps adding up.

So here is a safe way to cycle 500mg test a week, 30mg d-bol a day for 12 weeks, off for 11 months, another 12 weeks on off 11 months.  You ain't getting nowhere the safe way.  So what most people think is safe, is in reality not.

I agree 100%...very nice post.

[Luv2Hurt]

I agree 100%...very nice post.

Yeah I know I'm a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde about gear.  It is good to present a different prospective sometimes on here though. 

Maybe cause I'm a bit older and have seen friends come down with serious shit (not from juice)  But there is a time when you see your own mortality.  It makes you think sometimes about the things you do and the risks you take.

Alright I have a couple times been faced with the idea I could die from things that have come up in me over the years.  I will tell you this when that happens you think if I just could have another chance I will do everything I can to preserve my health in the future. I will appreciate every minute I'm alive. Sometimes you wonder how many chances you are going to get?

[muscle19]

So you think there is absolutly no way of cycling safely? You TRUELY believe that steroids, even in moderation will damage your body?

[Luv2Hurt]

So you think there is absolutly no way of cycling safely? You TRUELY believe that steroids, even in moderation will damage your body?

Not if you wanna see any real results.  See "moderation" means something different to everybody.  What is the typical HRT dose 400mg test per month?  If thats your idea of moderation than maybe.  I'm a safety pro by occupation and one thing I have learned in my job and about people is...What people consider safe varies WIDELY by prespective.

I dont know if its safe or not.  I guess Im just saying think about it.

[Arnold jr]

Not if you wanna see any real results.  See "moderation" means something different to everybody.  What is the typical HRT dose 400mg test per month?  If thats your idea of moderation than maybe.  I'm a safety pro by occupation and one thing I have learned in my job and about people is...What people consider safe varies WIDELY by prespective.

I dont know if its safe or not.  I guess Im just saying think about it.

It may not be the safest way to live...I can't argue that. But it cannot be any worse then the way most people live...far from it IMO.

It amazes me when I hear people talk about the dangers of AAS use to ones health, yet they put more garbage in their bodies daily....alcohol, cheeseburgers, fried food that's fried again just to make sure it's fried, cigs, etc. To top it off, most peoples idea of exercise is walking around the mall all day.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate these people...live and let live. It doesn't hurt me or my loved ones when people live unhealthy lives...but it is a shame.

[muscle19]

I respect your opinions, I truely do and I thank you guys very much for them! Now, say someone like me, I'm 23, cycle on and off, use no more than 900mg total of AAS, if that, rats fast food maybe once a wk, don't drink anymore, no smoking, would you say there's a GOOD shot of having health risks later on?

[Arnold jr]

I respect your opinions, I truely do and I thank you guys very much for them! Now, say someone like me, I'm 23, cycle on and off, use no more than 900mg total of AAS, if that, rats fast food maybe once a wk, don't drink anymore, no smoking, would you say there's a GOOD shot of having health risks later on?

Probably not but there is no sure way to answer that and give you 100% confirmation.

Take my father for instance...a non smoker but still ended up with a tumor in his lung and had 1/4 of his right lung removed...life's weird.

[muscle19]

I wanna say first, sorry to hear of your father! Truely, its weird how life can be! Smokers can live and never have a problem but the healthy one will get sick. I try to everything the healthy way, obviously, If I wanna be 100% healthy, I wouldn't use gear but I'm willing to test that while being as safe as possible and that's all you really can be!

[Luv2Hurt]

It may not be the safest way to live...I can't argue that. But it cannot be any worse then the way most people live...far from it IMO.

It amazes me when I hear people talk about the dangers of AAS use to ones health, yet they put more garbage in their bodies daily....alcohol, cheeseburgers, fried food that's fried again just to make sure it's fried, cigs, etc. To top it off, most peoples idea of exercise is walking around the mall all day.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate these people...live and let live. It doesn't hurt me or my loved ones when people live unhealthy lives...but it is a shame.

Well how other people live their lives I don't care either.  Its when people who have been down that road and talk about the dangers then in most cases there may be a good message there. People who have smoked for years with lung cancer talking about the bad idea it was to smoke, the alcoholic with a ruined liver talking about how drinking has destroyed thier lives.... 

Sometimes we are not talking about "most people" we are hearing it from people just like you and me, who felt the same way one time about it as you and me.

[slashmw]

You all make really good points and I agree its nice to read on this board and see some different perspectives.  As someone who is just about to turn 30 and been training natural for 8 years the darkside has been becoming more and more attractive.  The implications to ones health are quite uncertain.  It seems like there is no where to really go to get definitive answers.  I read as much as I can on here to get information, but have to honest with myself that its biased.  But the other side is so extreme, I take their words with a grain of salt.  In the end it comes down to personal choice, and what you priorities are.  Quality of life vs. Longevity.  Not sure which way I'll go.

[muscle19]

I do believe if you cycle resonably and can stay consistant with a healthy diet, I think you can have both!