Obama may face grilling on patriotism

[Deedee]

The irony is that everyone's panties are in a bunch over a lapel pin manufactured in China.  I'd rather support someone who forgoes the cheap pin and gives the vets back their benefits. I think this is the voter he's going after.

P.S.  Here's the other side of the story.  According to a former marine posting his opinion, apparently all the candidates did a lousy job of observing the proper form.

http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/barack-obama-refused-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance-youve-been-played-for-a-daggone-fool/

[Dos Equis]

Your main beef seems to be UHC.  See StrawMan's post for why it's a good idea.

A healthy country is a productive country.  And Obama/the democrats are upfront about it.

They don't hide the costs of their programs with borrowing from Red China.

That's part of my problem with him.  It's really his mindset I have trouble with.  I don't want to live in Canada. 

[240 is Back]

That's part of my problem with him.  It's really his mindset I have trouble with.  I don't want to live in Canada. 

Do you have a bigger problem with nationalized health care, or $5 trillion borrowed from China in 7 years?

[Deedee]

That's part of my problem with him.  It's really his mindset I have trouble with.  I don't want to live in Canada. 

You're one of those naive people.  Let me assure you, having lived in both countries, you are so far away from living in Canada you might as well compare it to Bora Bora instead.  The differences between the mind sets of both countries is huge. And that gap is growing wider each day.  Gay marriage and universal healthcare are a huge disaster to people like you because it undermines the religious-business sector's stronghold on your country.  That's why you get so hysterical.

Most of the rest of the world understands that even if the US accepted just a few democratic precepts, it wouldn't harm society or anybody's way of life... and you'd still be 180 from being Canada in any way, shape or form. That's why we sometimes have a good laugh...

[Dos Equis]

You're one of those naive people.  Let me assure you, having lived in both countries, you are so far away from living in Canada you might as well compare it to Bora Bora instead.  The differences between the mind sets of both countries is huge. And that gap is growing wider each day.  Gay marriage and universal healthcare are a huge disaster to people like you because it undermines the religious-business sector's stronghold on your country.  That's why you get so hysterical.

Most of the rest of the world understands that even if the US accepted just a few democratic precepts, it wouldn't harm society or anybody's way of life... and you'd still be 180 from being Canada in any way, shape or form. That's why we sometimes have a good laugh...

What does gay marriage, religion, etc. have to do with the price of tea in China?  And who is getting hysterical?  lol.  Oh brother. . . .
 
Anywho, I want our great country to stay as far away from Canada as possible.  I've talked to enough people about their tax burden and read enough about problems with their healthcare system to conclude it's not something that would be good for America.  There is no incentive to be successful when the government is going to take half of what you earn.     

[Straw Man]

  There is no incentive to be successful when the government is going to take half of what you earn.   

so I guess there are lot's of unsuccessful and unhappy people living on the dole in Canada?

or how about Sweden?  Taxes aer ~ 50% but they get free education, cradle to grave health care, unemployment benefits that extend out for 5 years, ongoing adult education, etc..

Oh brother - now I've gotta whip out the eye roll

 

[Dos Equis]

so I guess there are lot's of unsuccessful and unhappy people living on the dole in Canada?

or how about Sweden?  Taxes aer ~ 50% but they get free education, cradle to grave health care, unemployment benefits that extend out for 5 years, ongoing adult education, etc..

Oh brother - now I've gotta whip out the eye roll

 

   I'm sure there are a lot of people who are content to live in a socialized country.  Glad that's not the United States, although we do apparently have over 700,000 Canadians living in the U.S. 

This is the kind of mindset I'm talking about.  It's the kind of mindset we need to keep out of government.

If people want socialism, they should move to socialist countries.  Funny how that isn’t happening on the grand scale of U.S. immigration.  Funny how the rest of the world is flooding our borders. 

 

[Deedee]

What does gay marriage, religion, etc. have to do with the price of tea in China?  And who is getting hysterical?  lol.  Oh brother. . . .
 
Anywho, I want our great country to stay as far away from Canada as possible.  I've talked to enough people about their tax burden and read enough about problems with their healthcare system to conclude it's not something that would be good for America.  There is no incentive to be successful when the government is going to take half of what you earn.     

I know... I'm certain those 5 people you spoke to "at length" pretty much have it all summarized for you.    There's no danger of the US becoming Canada any time soon, and pretty much every Canadian is aware of that fact and would tell you the same thing. Our societies are just way too different. Yet you go on and on about it ad nauseum... it just shows how little worldly experience you have. You're very isolated. And so yeah, I would say you have a hysterical, skewed view of things.  

And religion's stronghold on the US has A LOT to do with why many Americans don't accept universal healthcare.

PS. Plus, those immigrants flooding your borders don't tend to insure themselves particularly well, so they are a burden on your healthcare system.

[Dos Equis]

I know... I'm certain those 5 people you spoke to "at length" pretty much have it all summarized for you.    There's no danger of the US becoming Canada any time soon, and pretty much every Canadian is aware of that fact and would tell you the same thing. Our societies are just way too different. Yet you go on and on about it ad nauseum... it just shows how little worldly experience you have. You're very isolated. And so yeah, I would say you have a hysterical, skewed view of things.  

And religion's stronghold on the US has A LOT to do with why many Americans don't accept universal healthcare.

PS. Plus, those immigrants flooding your borders don't tend to insure themselves particularly well, so they are a burden on your healthcare system.

Ridiculous.  On many fronts.  But re the religion aspect, your contention that religion has a "stronghold on the US" and "has a "LOT to do with why many Americans don't accept universal healthcare" simply shows how little worldly experience you have and how naive you are about how our country operates.  I have to assume you're not from the United States.  You certainly sound like an arrogant foreigner. 

The immigrants flooding our borders, including the hundreds of thousands of Canadians, want better opportunities, which they will get here.  If Canada was some utopia they would lead the world in immigration.  But it isn't and they don't.  We do. 

The immigrants who come here with no health insurance can get coverage depending on where they live, who they work for, etc.  If they come to Hawaii, they will have "free" health insurance for themselves if they get a full-time job.  If they can't get a job, there is state and federally funded care available.   

[Deedee]

Ridiculous.  On many fronts.  But re the religion aspect, your contention that religion has a "stronghold on the US" and "has a "LOT to do with why many Americans don't accept universal healthcare" simply shows how little worldly experience you have and how naive you are about how our country operates.  I have to assume you're not from the United States.  You certainly sound like an arrogant foreigner. 

The immigrants flooding our borders, including the hundreds of thousands of Canadians, want better opportunities, which they will get here.  If Canada was some utopia they would lead the world in immigration.  But it isn't and they don't.  We do. 

The immigrants who come here with no health insurance can get coverage depending on where they live, who they work for, etc.  If they come to Hawaii, they will have "free" health insurance for themselves if they get a full-time job.  If they can't get a job, there is state and federally funded care available.   

Arrogant foreigner... I like that one, especially since my family has been cross polinating with your kind for eons...or rather, for some reason you all have seem to keep coming up and sweeping our women folk off their feet. Actually, I live among you, but far enough away that you and I will never have to argue in person.     

How could Canada possibly lead in immigration?  The weather sucks and a large part of the country is inhabitable... but for the size and scope of the country it does well on that front. And I was only reminding you that since healthcare coverage is a choice in the US, many immigrants apparently "chose" not to cover themselves.  I have personally always been employed, and so my ass is covered either way... I personally see the benefits of both systems, although they are very different. I just find it hilarious that people like you and headhunter think the world will drop out of the sky if you got universal healthcare.  Most of you don't even know what it entails or how it works.

I'm on my way out the door, so don't have time to cover the religion aspect, but it's fairly obvious to most outsiders that religion does have a stronghold in your country, it's an anomoly actually... and that's why some governmental functions you'd see in other westernized (socialist, fascist) countries are still handled by organized religious institutions in the US.

[headhuntersix]

Well since i got lumped i here...i spoke with several  Canadian AF pilots a few weesk ago. They were train in Cali and flying back to Canada. Some had served with a friend of mine who is a Marine C-130 pilot. All of us had atleast 15 years in and were all either Majors or LTC's. These guys asked us about the elections. They told us that many of them pay 55% in taxes and some have said that they have planned trips/vacations to get medical care quicker. Now maybe these are the only Canadians that hate their tax situation and medical care but ...i doubt it.

[Dos Equis]

Arrogant foreigner... I like that one, especially since my family has been cross polinating with your kind for eons...or rather, for some reason you all have seem to keep coming up and sweeping our women folk off their feet. Actually, I live among you, but far enough away that you and I will never have to argue in person.     

How could Canada possibly lead in immigration?  The weather sucks and a large part of the country is inhabitable... but for the size and scope of the country it does well on that front. And I was only reminding you that since healthcare coverage is a choice in the US, many immigrants apparently "chose" not to cover themselves.  I have personally always been employed, and so my ass is covered either way... I personally see the benefits of both systems, although they are very different. I just find it hilarious that people like you and headhunter think the world will drop out of the sky if you got universal healthcare.  Most of you don't even know what it entails or how it works.

I'm on my way out the door, so don't have time to cover the religion aspect, but it's fairly obvious to most outsiders that religion does have a stronghold in your country, it's an anomoly actually... and that's why some governmental functions you'd see in other westernized (socialist, fascist) countries are still handled by organized religious institutions in the US.

Why do you live here instead of utopia?  You never know if we will meet (you wouldn't know me if you saw me) but I'm all over the place.  And both my parents are immigrants, BTW.    

The weather in Canada is not unlike the weather in many parts of the United States, so that argument doesn't work.  The obvious answer is the United States offers opportunities on the scale to which no other country can compare.

I don't think anyone said the sky will fall if the government takes over the healthcare system, but I think the concept is rife with problems.  It would be a disaster.  (Okay, that does sound sort of like a “sky is falling” comment.)  And I know enough about the Canadian healthcare system to have an opinion.

Religion is greatly interwoven in our society, but it doesn't control our society.  The First Amendment and their state equivalents work quite nicely in that regard.  

How do you conclude religion is precluding socialized healthcare in this country?        

[headhuntersix]

I don't even remotely see a link. How many hospitals are named after saints and how many religious groups of all faiths sponsor and support hospitals. Again..Lib attack on the Chritia right...which is a huge block of the voters in this country.