Chris Cook (recent pic)

[Master Blaster]

Psychologically is difficult to accept that you are just average or not as good. To think that the difference between you and a PRO athlete is all drugs. Make your existence easier to accept. The fact is Drugs are important part as long as they are use by someone that is already genetic gifted and structurally sound. That with combination of  diet and training will produce Great Athlete.

This is the bottom line. Compare a drug free bodybuilder with insane genetics, to a bodybuilder with average gentetcis who uses tons of juice, slin, IGF and GH and you will quickly see how important drugs are.

[Tamer Razor]

But you have to admit that the influence of drugs is in Bodybuilding bigger than in any other sports, where you have to have technical skills.

You may be right. But don't forget Kovacs will never be able to look like Melvin, Arnold, Ronnie and so on...Genetics are the most important factor in BB.

[m8]

You may be right. But don't forget Kovacs will never be able to look like Melvin, Arnold, Ronnie and so on...Genetics are the most important factor in BB.

Palumbo and Kovacs are special cases...

[affeman]

You may be right. But don't forget Kovacs will never be able to look like Melvin, Arnold, Ronnie and so on...Genetics are the most important factor in BB.

Sure, I've added this in my first post. They still can gain tons of muscles with drugs, the shitty structure of course remains.

[HTexan]

Juice is SO GODDAMN mighty!!!

Quoted for truth

[Thin Lizzy]

You always have losers that try to justify their inferiority by execuses, ....drugs,luck,lack of money....The fact is drugs undeniably help athletes but they are unable to change genetics or structure. These are the only two fundamental variables for success. No matter how much Cycles you take you will not look like Phil Heath or Flex ...But makes you feel good to think that "IF" you wanted to you could look like that .....sure....DREAM ON

This rap might have carried a bit more weight if we hadn't all seen pics like this one:

[Tamer Razor]

The ability to gain muscle mass with hormone stimulation is also a genetic factor that can not be forgotten. Several cases of huge use with very limited gain are well known. We may discuss it all day, but it all comes down to Genetics and structure.

[Tamer Razor]

This rap might have carried a bit more weight if we hadn't all seen pics like this one:

Wow....again if you think you can look like Kevin...taking ton of juice....you have no understanding of genetics and genetic response. Kevin may weight below 190lb but his muscle insertions and structure are still evidently superior to an average lifter.

[Spoony Luv]

This is the bottom line. Compare a drug free bodybuilder with insane genetics, to a bodybuilder with average gentetcis who uses tons of juice, slin, IGF and GH and you will quickly see how important drugs are.

statement of the year...Phil Heath was a decent size middle weight with very good genetics taking what the average guy in the gym takes...Now put him under Cutlers wing and see what can happen...

Flex Wheeler was known for having the best genetics in the sport...This guy's physique was actually a fcking joke back when he used to shave "flex" into the back of his head..Skinny with tiny joints......Just another middle weight with really good genetics taking average amounts of gear...That is until "someone" got him under there wing...

King Kamali has some of the worst genetics of any pro....But guess what, he is a pro...Now that his body is not really responding to hormones, he is being exposed what he always was...JUST ABOUT ALL FUCKING DRUGS...

Its always the dipshits that have there cocks so deep in the HGH/Slin/steroids ass that will stick up for drugs until it all comes tumbling down...

The truth is, you could walk down the streets of Harlem and pick a dozen kids playing hoop under the age of 16, put them under the wing of a Jay Cutler or Joe Weider and if they respond to hormones, they will be a top level bodybuilder by the time they reach there mid to late 20's(of course with dedication)...And it will all come down to how they respond to hormones....Because if they don't respond to hormones, they will just be another skinny middle weight with awesome genetics....So anyone who says drug plays a tiny role is a fcking douch bag of Tom Tognelli proportions and is living in denial..(These people are always the ones who are competing themselves or selling it)

[BayGBM]

Palumbo and Kovacs are special cases...

No they’re not.  If you overdose or otherwise don’t know what you’re doing you’re going to get a bad result.  Nothing special about that.  It's not as if either of them would have ever put on the size they did naturally.  

This rap might have carried a bit more weight if we hadn't all seen pics like this one:

LOL So true.  

[dearth]

"evil angel" - what a hardcore name!!

my inferiority complex suffering friend,

ifbb pros use something more than "genetics and structure" as evidenced by the multiple photos in this thread.

hope this helps

The ability to gain muscle mass with hormone stimulation is also a genetic factor that can not be forgotten. Several cases of huge use with very limited gain are well known. We may discuss it all day, but it all comes down to Genetics and structure.

[Meltdown]

Cook was livin the dream now he is livin for health.

[Thin Lizzy]

Wow....again if you think you can look like Kevin...taking ton of juice....you have no understanding of genetics and genetic response. Kevin may weight below 190lb but his muscle insertions and structure are still evidently superior to an average lifter.

You seem to be changing your tune as the thread progresses. First, it was genetics; now, it's genetics and genetic response. In what other sport is reponse to drugs an integral part of the equation? The point is that without the drugs Kevin, competing against steroid users, wouldn't have been anything in bodybuilding.

[affeman]

You seem to be changing your tune as the thread progresses. First, it was genetics; now, it's genetics and genetic response. In what other sport is reponse to drugs an integral part of the equation? The point is that without the drugs Kevin, competing against steroid users, wouldn't have been anything in bodybuilding.

Without drugs, nobody would have been anything in bodybuilding. The sport Bodybuilding would probably not even exist without drugs.

Sprinters without drugs would run the 100 m maybe half a second slower.

Nowhere the impact of drugs is bigger than in BB.

[Thin Lizzy]

Without drugs, nobody would have been anything in bodybuilding. The sport Bodybuilding would probably not even exist without drugs.

Sprinters without drugs would run the 100 m maybe half a second slower.

Nowhere the impact of drugs is bigger than in BB.

This is about as good as it gets without chemical help.

[Cap]

In the same logic how much do you think steroids improved Roger,Bonds,Palmeiro and so on. Do you think your averege ball player could play at their level if they have the same amount of Drugs.

Hmmm, well it enlarged Bonds' head size by more than 2-3% and he went from 16 HR his rookie year to setting the record of 73 HR 15 years later.  If his body was capable of putting 40 pounds of muscle on in one summer and hitting all those jacks, why didn't he?  His highest total before that was 49 HR.  I'd say the bulk and strength gained improved him quite a bit, just like all the people who blow up on juice and deflate after they stop.  Is it a coincidence guys like Cook and Wheeler look normal after stopping their outrageous cycles?  You'll see when you stop juicing.

[tom joad]

Hmmm, well it enlarged Bonds' head size by more than 2-3% and he went from 16 HR his rookie year to setting the record of 73 HR 15 years later.  If his body was capable of putting 40 pounds of muscle on in one summer and hitting all those jacks, why didn't he?  His highest total before that was 49 HR.  I'd say the bulk and strength gained improved him quite a bit, just like all the people who blow up on juice and deflate after they stop.  Is it a coincidence guys like Cook and Wheeler look normal after stopping their outrageous cycles?  You'll see when you stop juicing.

maybe Barry took a lot of extra BP the year he hit 73 dingers?

[Mussolini]

You may be right. But don't forget Kovacs will never be able to look like Melvin, Arnold, Ronnie and so on...Genetics are the most important factor in BB.

Dude your in fuccking denial and are obviously a heavy juicer. Someone with shit genetics (kamali) is still a pro, therefore drugs are more important than Genetics, and can be used to compensate for inferior genetics.

[LATS]

 i have to sometimes wonder about the knowledge of some.. cook is not training to be a bodybuilder.. he is training in mma.. he wrestle, box, cardio ect ect.. yet, many on this thread automatically start the same busllshit of "look what happens without drugs".. get a clue.. he is not training or eating for any size.. he is trying to be lighter and limiting his weight training so he can spend more time in mma training.. i would think that would be the common sense part of this thread.. do drugs make a difference.. hell yes.. but, trying to trim down, not doing a "bodybuilding" weight training routine and spending most of your time rolling around on a mat will drop your size.. i would hope all could agree to that..

[AKR]

This is about as good as it gets without chemical help.

yea, thats good but hes not the best by far.

[Tamer Razor]

Hmmm, well it enlarged Bonds' head size by more than 2-3% and he went from 16 HR his rookie year to setting the record of 73 HR 15 years later.  If his body was capable of putting 40 pounds of muscle on in one summer and hitting all those jacks, why didn't he?  His highest total before that was 49 HR.  I'd say the bulk and strength gained improved him quite a bit, just like all the people who blow up on juice and deflate after they stop.  Is it a coincidence guys like Cook and Wheeler look normal after stopping their outrageous cycles?  You'll see when you stop juicing.

Bodybuilders are in a methodical diet,training and supplementation program that for certain will stop once you stop competition. No bodybuilder is going to be Lifting as heavy or eating 500g of protein a day and talking supplements when he is done. So no only they stop juicing they stop eating as much, taking the same amounts of supplements and even their training is significantly decrease. Muscle is a luxury that your body has not need for it. Once the stimulus is stop the Body will rapidly decrease the  extra muscle mass that has absolutely no biological function

[benchmstr]

Psychologically is difficult to accept that you are just average or not as good. To think that the difference between you and a PRO athlete is all drugs. Make your existence easier to accept. The fact is Drugs are important part as long as they are use by someone that is already genetic gifted and structurally sound. That with combination of diet and training will produce Great Athlete.

dude you are truly stupid if you believe without steroids you or any other competitor is worth a shit or any better than the average dude who works out..............hope this helps

bench

[Jussup]

Bodybuilders are in a methodical diet,training and supplementation program that for certain will stop once you stop competition. No bodybuilder is going to be Lifting as heavy or eating 500g of protein a day and talking supplements when he is done. So no only they stop juicing they stop eating as much, taking the same amounts of supplements and even their training is significantly decrease. Muscle is a luxury that your body has not need for it. Once the stimulus is stop the Body will rapidly decrease the  extra muscle mass that has absolutely no biological function

agreed. And the main factor in this program you mentioned is the juice. As simple as that. It certainly does not work alone, but without it most of your 500g of proteins will go right into the toilet.

[Croatch]

The ability to gain muscle mass with hormone stimulation is also a genetic factor that can not be forgotten. Several cases of huge use with very limited gain are well known. We may discuss it all day, but it all comes down to Genetics and structure.

Agreed.  If you have shit genetics, you'll only magnify those genetics.  Take my gym for example.   Middle age carpenters ingesting a bunch of test/gh, pretending to be bodybuilders, after watching a Jay Cutler video.  I feel bad for these folk.  I'd have more respect for clowns like that, if they just trained natural and actually accomplished something on their own.  Fact is, most people are too weak to do much naturally.
Unless you have the genetics to support drug use, please...don't use steroids.  It's honestly hard to look at half these douchebags on a daily basis....like I'm about to do now at Gold's.  Land of the delusionites.

[Tamer Razor]

dude you are truly stupid if you believe without steroids you or any other competitor is worth a shit or any better than the average dude who works out..............hope this helps

bench

Ok ....again I don't want to make you sad....you are right ...you would look like Phil Heath if you take the same cycle as his. thank you for helping me.