Media Prefers Obama's Rhetoric To His Command Of Issues

[War-Horse]

Because I haven't lost any Constitutional right to privacy, or the privacy protections provided by my state constitution. 

So when did the government spy on you and why haven't you contacted the ACLU about this? 

LOL.  Thats the point BB.  You wont know, until they want you to know.   Its a right you have lost with out your permission....Its fascism....

[Decker]

Because I haven't lost any Constitutional right to privacy, or the privacy protections provided by my state constitution. 

So when did the government spy on you and why haven't you contacted the ACLU about this? 

That's cute Beach Bum.  You know as well as I do that the information requests from our government on the subject matter are barred as a "state secret."  Thank god for whistleblowers.

Your comfort with big government's fascist powers is sobering.

Government can spy on you without probable cause, torture people, and start a war of aggression and none of these things are part our traditions in the US.  They are fascist...not american.

The mere fact that you are A-ok with government having these powers is troubling.

[Dos Equis]

LOL.  Thats the point BB.  You wont know, until they want you to know.   Its a right you have lost with out your permission....Its fascism....

What right have you lost dude?  The government been spying on you too?  Sounds like class action material.   

[Dos Equis]

That's cute Beach Bum.  You know as well as I do that the information requests from our government on the subject matter are barred as a "state secret."  Thank god for whistleblowers.

Your comfort with big government's fascist powers is sobering.

Government can spy on you without probable cause, torture people, and start a war of aggression and none of these things are part our traditions in the US.  They are fascist...not american.

The mere fact that you are A-ok with government having these powers is troubling.

I was joking about the ACLU, but serious about government spying.  When did the government start spying on you?  (Since this is one of the rights you claimed to have lost.) 

[Decker]

I was joking about the ACLU, but serious about government spying.  When did the government start spying on you?  (Since this is one of the rights you claimed to have lost.) 

Thanks to whistleblowers we know the Bush administration has authorized widespread spying on american citizens without any show of probable cause.

That felony is enough to put all of our 4th amendment rights in jeopardy.  The merest appearance of impropriety in the exercise of State power in contravention of guaranteed constitutional rights is enough to cause damage to us all.

Thanks to 'State Secrets', which you seem to be enamored of, we will not be able to have the identities of the injured revealed. 

Big Secret Government (i.e., fascism) wins again.

The losers: We the People and the US Constitution.

We need more whistle blowers and an intense investigation into the criminal Bush Administration.

[240 is Back]

In the initial 10,000 taps audited, 10% of the audited FBI calls were shown to be abuse of power (IE going beyond limits of warrant or not having a warrant at all, or listening to political adversaries).

They stopped running audits after that came out.  That was 2 years ago?

[Decker]

In the initial 10,000 taps audited, 10% of the audited FBI calls were shown to be abuse of power (IE going beyond limits of warrant or not having a warrant at all, or listening to political adversaries).

They stopped running audits after that came out.  That was 2 years ago?

When accountability is shitcanned, the slippery slope of illegality takes off. 

[240 is Back]

When accountability is shitcanned, the slippery slope of illegality takes off. 

But since I cannot list them, they must not exist, by Beach Bum's logic.

[Dos Equis]

Thanks to whistleblowers we know the Bush administration has authorized widespread spying on american citizens without any show of probable cause.

That felony is enough to put all of our 4th amendment rights in jeopardy.  The merest appearance of impropriety in the exercise of State power in contravention of guaranteed constitutional rights is enough to cause damage to us all.

Thanks to 'State Secrets', which you seem to be enamored of, we will not be able to have the identities of the injured revealed. 

Big Secret Government (i.e., fascism) wins again.

The losers: We the People and the US Constitution.

We need more whistle blowers and an intense investigation into the criminal Bush Administration.

Decker you said "Specific freedoms I have lost include my 4th amendment right to privacy (FISA spying/Patriot Act I & II) . . . ."  So has the government been spying on you or not?    

[Decker]

Decker you said "Specific freedoms I have lost include my 4th amendment right to privacy (FISA spying/Patriot Act I & II) . . . ."  So has the government been spying on you or not?    

It doesn't matter. 

So stop your rantings defending our Police State b/c it's not going to get you anywhere.

The fact of the matter is, is that the Bush Administration was caught red-handed authorizing vast spying sweeps of the american public without probable cause. 

The simple fact that the president is spying on americans without a warrant and no probable cause is enough to damage all of our 4th amendment rights.  My personal factual showing of injury is not necessary to show that the 4th Am is being damaged by the Bush Administration.  A whistleblower has already shown that.

 'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'


Do you believe the 4th amendment right to freedom from unreasonable searches has been damaged by Bush's spying on US citizens?

[Dos Equis]

It doesn't matter. 

So stop your rantings defending our Police State b/c it's not going to get you anywhere.

The fact of the matter is, is that the Bush Administration was caught red-handed authorizing vast spying sweeps of the american public without probable cause. 

The simple fact that the president is spying on americans without a warrant and no probable cause is enough to damage all of our 4th amendment rights.  My personal factual showing of injury is not necessary to show that the 4th Am is being damaged by the Bush Administration.  A whistleblower has already shown that.

 'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'


Do you believe the 4th amendment right to freedom from unreasonable searches has been damaged by Bush's spying on US citizens?

Who is ranting?  lol. . .   I'm just trying to understand these rights you claim to have lost.  So you lost your 4th Amendment right to privacy due to the Patriot Act, but it doesn't matter if the government has actually been spying on you?  ?? Would that be the same provision of the Patriot Act that was deemed unconstitutional by a federal judge? 

I've never supported warrantless wiretaps. 

No, there has been no great harm to the 4th Amendment, because the legislature passed a law, Bush tried to implement the law, and a federal judge ruled portions of the law are unconstitutional.  The system worked.  Or I should say it is working, because the Bush Admin appealed the judge's ruling. 

Sounds like you have a beef with all of the legislators who voted to pass the Patriot Act.       

[Decker]

Who is ranting?  lol. . .   I'm just trying to understand these rights you claim to have lost.  So you lost your 4th Amendment right to privacy due to the Patriot Act, but it doesn't matter if the government has actually been spying on you?  ?? Would that be the same provision of the Patriot Act that was deemed unconstitutional by a federal judge? 

I've never supported warrantless wiretaps. 

No, there has been no great harm to the 4th Amendment, because the legislature passed a law, Bush tried to implement the law, and a federal judge ruled portions of the law are unconstitutional.  The system worked.  Or I should say it is working, because the Bush Admin appealed the judge's ruling. 

Sounds like you have a beef with all of the legislators who voted to pass the Patriot Act.       

Yes, that portion of the Patriot Act was found to be unconstitutional.  Unfortunately that does not extend to the Bush Administration's wanton violation of the FISA requirement that a warrant be secured when engaging in domestic spying on citizens.

Now the Bush Adm is trying to finesse 'basket warrants' which do not target an individual with probable cause for spying but entire groups of people.

Just what doesn't the Bush Adm. understand about 4 Amendment rights? 

So if you are against the warrantless wiretapping of the Bush Adm, I suggest you sign this petition:

https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?pagename=homepage&id=725&page=UserAction&JServSessionIdr005=dol03myhl1.app20a

Join me in opposing the government's anti-constitutional effort.

[War-Horse]

Thanks for the link, Decker.  Im signed on.     BTW, Beachbum is a dead-horse so dont waste to much time trying to make sense with him....

[Decker]

Thanks for the link, Decker.  Im signed on.     BTW, Beachbum is a dead-horse so dont waste to much time trying to make sense with him....

Thank you for doing that.

I think Beach Bum is a very bright guy.  He's good at debating.  But at times he defends the indefensible.