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Author Topic: Training Shoulders - Now shooting pain  (Read 2520 times)
Stark
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« on: March 07, 2008, 03:48:54 AM »

Anybody who is actually trying to get good shoulders naturaly or on juice and is not just cheating with too heavy DB will agree that Shoulders is possible the hardest muscle group to train properly.

I've trained shoulders 2 days ago with a friend and we did Frontraise with the Barbell, not much weight I think all in all with the Barbell 30 kilos, however when ever one of us was finished we would swap real fast no breaks in between and did so for at least 20min.
The end result was that I have a lovely pain on my side delts but a pain I never had before, it's not the usual muscle pain you feel after a hard workout, it's more like shooting pain in both delts...
Anybody else ever had the same happen to him?
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Mars
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2008, 03:54:55 AM »

well i stopped doing front raises with bar because it did gave me a not so good feeling into my delts too.
i always prefer dumbells for shoulder training.
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Croatch
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2008, 04:12:30 AM »

You're better off doing alternate dumbells front raises.  You don't lock in that range of motion, like with a bar.  Granted, I'll do upright rows with a bar.  Bench press seems like the worst exercise in the world for your rotator cuff.
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2008, 04:28:28 AM »

You're better off doing alternate dumbells front raises.  You don't lock in that range of motion, like with a bar.  Granted, I'll do upright rows with a bar.  Bench press seems like the worst exercise in the world for your rotator cuff.
Agreed. Flat Bench is so uncomfortable exercise.
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Monster81
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2008, 04:36:34 AM »

You're better off doing alternate dumbells front raises.  You don't lock in that range of motion, like with a bar.  Granted, I'll do upright rows with a bar.  Bench press seems like the worst exercise in the world for your rotator cuff.
i think alternate front dumbbell raise is too much rest for the muscle, unless if ur raisisng one arm while lowering the other and vise versa
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Stark
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2008, 05:08:59 AM »

i think alternate front dumbbell raise is too much rest for the muscle, unless if ur raisisng one arm while lowering the other and vise versa

that's the thing with Barbell Front raise, you constantly have the Delts under "pressure", I like them a lot but I don't like the way my delts feel right now, I had a horrible shoulder injury 1 year ago and it took me a while to get that healed, basicly it was an injury I got when I did my military service in the Deutschen Bundeswehr and I fell out of a Tank/Personal Carrier and right on my shoulder.

I realy wonder if doing Barbel Front raise puts to much pressure on the delts?

Your thoughts?
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coltrane
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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2008, 08:16:15 AM »

I've got a great exercise i've been doing for that front delt tie in to the chest:


sit on perpendicular bench.  Lean over to the side of the shoulder youre gonna work just a tad.  Hold lighter db (20-35 pounds) in a hammer grip position.  Now do a raise, almost like youre bowling. (only way to describe)

The key is to lean over a little to hit that tie in.  I've had a lot of success w this exercise guys!
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The Squadfather
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« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2008, 08:48:53 AM »

i've never seen the point of front raises seems like a redundant exercise with all the work the front delts recieve on shoulder presses, bench presses and inclines, i just do barbell presses to the front, side laterals and barbell shrugs.
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_bruce_
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2008, 08:53:29 AM »

@Front raises - are you a pro Stark?
Do some rotator cuff exercises you irish bastard  Grin
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coltrane
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2008, 09:02:51 AM »

i've never seen the point of front raises seems like a redundant exercise with all the work the front delts recieve on shoulder presses, bench presses and inclines, i just do barbell presses to the front, side laterals and barbell shrugs.


try these....  i know what you mean about hitting the fronts with presses, but these seem to hit more of the "tie in" area...they're good trust me
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jpm101
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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2008, 10:08:50 AM »

I will agree with SF. Front raises are redundant and really not that effective in my view.You may get a great pump, but so what? A pump is never a assurance of muscle gains. As an extension exercise (out and away from the front of the body) some will complain of lower back problems when working into heavier weight with front raises. If this occurs and you still want to do them, than try doing the front raises on a higher angled Incline bench. Using DB's over BB's give a better ROM with inclines. Using more of a hammer grip with the DB's (either standing or on an incline) may also relieve undo shoulder stress. Proper gripping (varies with each of us) can have quite a bit of influence on joint strain. As with most other exercises.

Might try BB military presses with a close grip (keeping the elbows in) for anterior mass. Also try BB front presses with a curl grip. Only go as high as the shoulders themselves. A very strong leverage exercise, which for the most part reduces the role of the triceps and more on anterior delt power.. Another one of those forgotten exercises, but never the less a good one.

Actually I find adding mass to the total delt/shoulder area not that difficult. Heavy presses  like push/jerk presses and PBN's work well. As do up-right rows, Hi-Pulls and cleans. One arm DB side presses are excellent for shoulder power and pure muscle mass. Good Luck.
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2008, 10:25:18 AM »

Anybody who is actually trying to get good shoulders naturaly or on juice and is not just cheating with too heavy DB will agree that Shoulders is possible the hardest muscle group to train properly.

I've trained shoulders 2 days ago with a friend and we did Frontraise with the Barbell, not much weight I think all in all with the Barbell 30 kilos, however when ever one of us was finished we would swap real fast no breaks in between and did so for at least 20min.
The end result was that I have a lovely pain on my side delts but a pain I never had before, it's not the usual muscle pain you feel after a hard workout, it's more like shooting pain in both delts...
Anybody else ever had the same happen to him?

Front and lateral raises are, IMO, unnecessary and potentially injury-causing, unless you're using very light weights for very high reps.  Also not a good idea, again IMO, to make your shoulder routine revolve around BB exercises.  DB militaries, etc. are going to be much better options for all around shoulder health and strength.
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coltrane
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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2008, 11:06:04 AM »

i guess i can't agree w you guys..

i'm natural, and presses alone don't cut it.  I've gotta really hit the shoulders hard from all angles w numerous sets to get any kind of response.  I go heavy on db presses and push presses from a seated position, but if i don't do a TON of side delt exercises like laterals, I get narrow.

probably just my genetics though..
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pumpster
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2008, 06:33:54 PM »

Agree with coltrane, side laterals are a huge benefit to shoulders and another example of isolation movements that are as good or better than compounds.

On the other hand they're tough on the joints and can lead to injury so if you do em keep the reps in the higher 10-15 range. Higher reps seem to work the delts better anyway.
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mitchyboy
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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2008, 10:07:30 PM »

Try a pre exaust for the side delts, than you wont have to go as heavy on the presses Smiley
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pumpster
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« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2008, 11:19:26 PM »

Try a pre exaust for the side delts, than you wont have to go as heavy on the presses Smiley
Exactly; this is one way to use laterals while mitigated the chance the injury, both because less weight's used and because the area's fully warmed up first.
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Deicide
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2008, 05:53:13 AM »

i've never seen the point of front raises seems like a redundant exercise with all the work the front delts recieve on shoulder presses, bench presses and inclines, i just do barbell presses to the front, side laterals and barbell shrugs.

Very much agreed. Why do people waste their time with front raises when bench and shoulder press are much better exercises for the front deltoids. I think people actually like to overtrain sometimes.
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2008, 08:57:12 AM »

Exactly; this is one way to use laterals while mitigated the chance the injury, both because less weight's used and because the area's fully warmed up first.
i agree, side laterals are an EXCELLENT movement for shoulders and i don't see the point of going any heavier than a pair of 30-35 pound db's on these for higher reps, some people swear by wide grip upright rows but those have never done anything but give me pain.
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