FINALLY - the reason DEMS tax more

[War-Horse]

oohh.. touched a nerve did I?

Funny how the only real action he committed to was a pathetic and unsuccessful Thawk attack right when the whole Monica nonsense was going on.  C'mon.. and you're callin me dumb?!? hahaha.. ok

Apparantly, you are against women giving you blowjobs??     Did prison turn you into a republican...

[Brixtonbulldog]

Apparantly, you are against women giving you blowjobs??     Did prison turn you into a republican...

Okay, after this one you don't get to call me stupid anymore since you obviously can't see my point.

And don't assume I don't like blow jobs just because I've turned you down everytime Neuro leaves for work.

[Decker]

There's a lot of blame to go around for 9/11.  Clinton spent over a billion dollars on anti-terror measures in 1996.  He ordered the assassinatin of OBL.  But he failed to get him.

Bush completely ignored terrorism as an issue when he took office.  He failed to catch OBL as well.  Then he did the unthinkable:

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."


"I don't know where he is. I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."


"Deep in my heart I know the man's on the run, if he's alive at all...I just don't spend much time on it, really, to be honest with you."

And President Bush disbanded the CIA unit dedicated to finding bin Laden.

[Brixtonbulldog]

There's a lot of blame to go around for 9/11.  Clinton spent over a billion dollars on anti-terror measures in 1996.  He ordered the assassinatin of OBL.  But he failed to get him.

Bush completely ignored terrorism as an issue when he took office.  He failed to catch OBL as well.  Then he did the unthinkable:

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."


"I don't know where he is. I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."


"Deep in my heart I know the man's on the run, if he's alive at all...I just don't spend much time on it, really, to be honest with you."

And President Bush disbanded the CIA unit dedicated to finding bin Laden.

You know exactly what that means.  OBL is one man of a leaderless network.  Getting him is not nearly a priority when compared to get to the network itself.

Clintons shortcomings go beyond Osama, but that's really not the point.  Bush has done more to stop terror in his first term than Bill did in both of his.

[War-Horse]

You know exactly what that means.  OBL is one man of a leaderless network.  Getting him is not nearly a priority when compared to get to the network itself.

Clintons shortcomings go beyond Osama, but that's really not the point.  Bush has done more to stop terror in his first term than Bill did in both of his.

Yeah.   We had constant news of terrorist reports on T.V everynight. We saw the death toll of soldiers climb into the thousands............

[Decker]

You know exactly what that means.  OBL is one man of a leaderless network.  Getting him is not nearly a priority when compared to get to the network itself.

Clintons shortcomings go beyond Osama, but that's really not the point.  Bush has done more to stop terror in his first term than Bill did in both of his.

No, a thousand times no.  You are saying that the man that helped orchestrate the 9/11 attacks isn't worth arresting?

That's nonsense.

Battling Al Qaeda is not an 'either/or' proposition.  Either get Bin Laden or battle Al Qaeda.  That's sophistry.

Bush completely ignored terrorism and Al Qaeda until after 9/11.

Here's what Clinton did before 9/11 with his '96 Omnibus Anti-terrorism deal:

Screen Checked Baggage: $91.1 million

Screen Carry-On Baggage: $37.8 million

Passenger Profiling: $10 million

Screener Training: $5.3 million

Screen Passengers (portals) and Document Scanners: $1 million

Deploying Existing Technology to Inspect International Air Cargo: $31.4
million

Provide Additional Air/Counterterrorism Security: $26.6 million

Explosives Detection Training: $1.8 million

Augment FAA Security Research: $20 million

Customs Service: Explosives and Radiation Detection Equipment at Ports: $2.2 million

Anti-Terrorism Assistance to Foreign Governments: $2 million

Capacity to Collect and Assemble Explosives Data: $2.1 million

Improve Domestic Intelligence: $38.9 million

Critical Incident Response Teams for Post-Blast Deployment: $7.2 million

Additional Security for Federal Facilities: $6.7 million

Firefighter/Emergency Services Financial Assistance: $2.7 million

Public Building and Museum Security: $7.3 million

Improve Technology to Prevent Nuclear Smuggling: $8 million

Critical Incident Response Facility: $2 million

Counter-Terrorism Fund: $35 million

Explosives Intelligence and Support Systems: $14.2 million

Office of Emergency Preparedness: $5.8 million

The Clinton administration poured more than a billion dollars into counterterrorism activities across the entire spectrum of the intelligence community, into the protection of critical infrastructure, into massive federal stockpiling of antidotes and vaccines to prepare for a possible bioterror attack, into a reorganization of the intelligence community itself.
Source: William Rivers Pitt


Does that look like nothing to you?

[Brixtonbulldog]

No, a thousand times no.  You are saying that the man that helped orchestrate the 9/11 attacks isn't worth arresting?

That's nonsense.

Battling Al Qaeda is not an 'either/or' proposition.  Either get Bin Laden or battle Al Qaeda.  That's sophistry.

No I'm saying it's pales in comparison to the overall objective.  Don't try to twist my words around.

Bush completely ignored terrorism and Al Qaeda until after 9/11.

Here's what Clinton did before 9/11 with his '96 Omnibus Anti-terrorism deal:

Screen Checked Baggage: $91.1 million

Screen Carry-On Baggage: $37.8 million

Passenger Profiling: $10 million

Screener Training: $5.3 million

Screen Passengers (portals) and Document Scanners: $1 million

Deploying Existing Technology to Inspect International Air Cargo: $31.4
million

Provide Additional Air/Counterterrorism Security: $26.6 million

Explosives Detection Training: $1.8 million

Augment FAA Security Research: $20 million

Customs Service: Explosives and Radiation Detection Equipment at Ports: $2.2 million

Anti-Terrorism Assistance to Foreign Governments: $2 million

Capacity to Collect and Assemble Explosives Data: $2.1 million

Improve Domestic Intelligence: $38.9 million

Critical Incident Response Teams for Post-Blast Deployment: $7.2 million

Additional Security for Federal Facilities: $6.7 million

Firefighter/Emergency Services Financial Assistance: $2.7 million

Public Building and Museum Security: $7.3 million

Improve Technology to Prevent Nuclear Smuggling: $8 million

Critical Incident Response Facility: $2 million

Counter-Terrorism Fund: $35 million

Explosives Intelligence and Support Systems: $14.2 million

Office of Emergency Preparedness: $5.8 million

The Clinton administration poured more than a billion dollars into counterterrorism activities across the entire spectrum of the intelligence community, into the protection of critical infrastructure, into massive federal stockpiling of antidotes and vaccines to prepare for a possible bioterror attack, into a reorganization of the intelligence community itself.
Source: William Rivers Pitt


Does that look like nothing to you?

Hmm.. all that and 9/11 (among others) still happened.

ONE BILLION DOLLARS!!!!  lol, relatively small by todays standards, nice try.

Bush legislated and funded far more efforts to combat terror and so far they have paid off.

There's so much more than just this but you get the idea:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa071702a.htm

[War-Horse]

No, a thousand times no.  You are saying that the man that helped orchestrate the 9/11 attacks isn't worth arresting?

That's nonsense.

Battling Al Qaeda is not an 'either/or' proposition.  Either get Bin Laden or battle Al Qaeda.  That's sophistry.

Bush completely ignored terrorism and Al Qaeda until after 9/11.

Here's what Clinton did before 9/11 with his '96 Omnibus Anti-terrorism deal:

Screen Checked Baggage: $91.1 million

Screen Carry-On Baggage: $37.8 million

Passenger Profiling: $10 million

Screener Training: $5.3 million

Screen Passengers (portals) and Document Scanners: $1 million

Deploying Existing Technology to Inspect International Air Cargo: $31.4
million

Provide Additional Air/Counterterrorism Security: $26.6 million

Explosives Detection Training: $1.8 million

Augment FAA Security Research: $20 million

Customs Service: Explosives and Radiation Detection Equipment at Ports: $2.2 million

Anti-Terrorism Assistance to Foreign Governments: $2 million

Capacity to Collect and Assemble Explosives Data: $2.1 million

Improve Domestic Intelligence: $38.9 million

Critical Incident Response Teams for Post-Blast Deployment: $7.2 million

Additional Security for Federal Facilities: $6.7 million

Firefighter/Emergency Services Financial Assistance: $2.7 million

Public Building and Museum Security: $7.3 million

Improve Technology to Prevent Nuclear Smuggling: $8 million

Critical Incident Response Facility: $2 million

Counter-Terrorism Fund: $35 million

Explosives Intelligence and Support Systems: $14.2 million

Office of Emergency Preparedness: $5.8 million

The Clinton administration poured more than a billion dollars into counterterrorism activities across the entire spectrum of the intelligence community, into the protection of critical infrastructure, into massive federal stockpiling of antidotes and vaccines to prepare for a possible bioterror attack, into a reorganization of the intelligence community itself.
Source: William Rivers Pitt


Does that look like nothing to you?

Decker. Please do not clog up the debate with facts.    Brixy would like to keep within his comfort zone of assumptions, inuendo's and outright lies.  This will make for a more spirited discussion.



                                              Yours Sincerely, Warhorse  

[Decker]

No I'm saying it's pales in comparison to the overall objective.  Don't try to twist my words around.

You are agreeing with Bush that OBL is not that important.  Tell that to the 3000+ families grieving the deaths of loved ones on 9/11.  "There killer is just not important any more...."

Hmm.. all that and 9/11 (among others) still happened.

Yes, 9/11 still happened b/c of almost inexplicable failures.

ONE BILLION DOLLARS!!!!  lol, relatively small by todays standards, nice try.

That's a billion more dollars than Bush spent on fighting terrorism before 9/11.

Bush legislated and funded far more efforts to combat terror and so far they have paid off.

There's so much more than just this but you get the idea:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa071702a.htm

Of course he spent more on terrorism--he was president of the US when the country was attacked.  The man had a blank check and a clear enemy after the attacks.

Thank god he invaded Iraq illegally.  I agree with others that, not only is that the single worst strategic blunder in US history, but that he undercut the battle with Al Qaeda to divert resources to a needless war in Iraq.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Decker. Please do not clog up the debate with facts.    Brixy would like to keep within his comfort zone of assumptions, inuendo's and outright lies.  This will make for a more spirited discussion.



                                              Yours Sincerely, Warhorse  

Haven't lied yet.. just as you have yet to say anything true, lol.

[Brixtonbulldog]

You are agreeing with Bush that OBL is not that important.  Tell that to the 3000+ families grieving the deaths of loved ones on 9/11.  "There killer is just not important any more...."
Yes, 9/11 still happened b/c of almost inexplicable failures.
That's a billion more dollars than Bush spent on fighting terrorism before 9/11.
Of course he spent more on terrorism--he was president of the US when the country was attacked.  The man had a blank check and a clear enemy after the attacks.

Thank god he invaded Iraq illegally.  I agree with others that, not only is that the single worst strategic blunder in US history, but that he undercut the battle with Al Qaeda to divert resources to a needless war in Iraq.

OBL has been made completely impotent by our efforts in Afghanistan and we are fighting him by fighting his network.  He's still one man and he's lost a lot of influence thanks to us.

Bush was in office 9 months, Clinton had 4 years.

Not only was it not a blunder, it was the next best thing to his father failing to finish the job the first time.

Although its BS you libs keep saying there was no AQ in Iraq before we went.  Well that means you concede that it's there now and we're slaughtering them by the thousands.. so tell me again what we're undercutting?

[candidizzle]

we dont need more taxes. we need more fiscal responsibilty and oversight.

we have PLENTY  of money. we just dont know how to spend it...

look at our health care system for christ sake...     we can and should have universal healthcare ala canada, but better, with how much money we put into it.      we dont have to repeal the bush tax cuts in order to pay for healthcare, we just have to go into our existing porgram and tear it apart..

[Decker]

OBL has been made completely impotent by our efforts in Afghanistan and we are fighting him by fighting his network.  He's still one man and he's lost a lot of influence thanks to us.

Bush was in office 9 months, Clinton had 4 years.

Not only was it not a blunder, it was the next best thing to his father failing to finish the job the first time.

Although its BS you libs keep saying there was no AQ in Iraq before we went.  Well that means you concede that it's there now and we're slaughtering them by the thousands.. so tell me again what we're undercutting?

Al Qaeda was in Iraq prior to the invasion.  So what.  It had no working relationship with Hussein.  Al Qaeda was in the US prior to the 9/11 attacks.  The terrorists lived and trained in the USA. 

What do you make of that?

So you are saying, much like Bush, that arresting OBL is not important any more?  That's unbelievable.

Bush has had almost 8 years to catch the world's most wanted man and he's failed.  He's even given up looking.

That's deplorable.

[kh300]

Yes, 9/11 still happened b/c of almost inexplicable failures.

your wrong. every single guy on those planes set off metal detectors. they didnt get screened, they were sent through. they were acting nervous and suspicious, but were sent through. i studied every one of there moves so i know. if they tried to go through a tsa checkpoint today they wouldnt have a prayer.

[OzmO]

It's not "blah blah"... Various attacks happened during his term and he did just what you're accusing Bush of doing.. NOTHING! 

He didn't do anything?  He didn't let the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.. do their jobs?  He didn't launch a missle strike into Afghanistan?  He didn't go after any of them?

How many tips do you think Bush/DOD/CIA/NSA etc get everyday.. if one came in with credibility they wouldn't know until after the fact.  I've seen intel.  There's only so much you can do and so much you can act on.  The point is Clinton had the confirmation needed to act and did nothing while Bush had no reason to take one threat more seriously than another because he didn't have that assurance.

If Clinton had the confirmation so did BUSH.  For the same reasons BUSH didn't see the them as threats can be argue that Clinton did the same.  That's why it's plain silly to say it's Clinton's fault.  He was not the man on the watch, BUSH was.  It wasn't his fault directly.  But he shares some responsibility in the same sense you could say Clinton does.   So in that respect they are both to blame, but again, to say it was Clinton's fault is just propaganda blabber regurgitated.

This is why the action taken after the fact is so important.  Bush has done everything possible to prevent more attacks.  Clinton did nothing even AFTER allied forces were attacked the world over.

This is another example of where you are not thinking  objectively.  BUSH has done everything possible to prevent more attacks?  Are you kidding me?  do you sit there and call your self a true conservative and actually believe what you are saying?  for as little as few thousand dollars total one person could close down air traffic again in this country for  few days. 

And Cliinton did nothing?  He just sat there and said go ahead and attack i will not do anything?  com on.

What happen on 9/11 was in a totally different class of things to do versus attacks on the US millitary prior.  Hell, if anything, Reagan didn't do a whole hell of a lot after what happen in Lebanon.  And that was a lot worse thananything that happen on Clinton's watch.  I guarantee you BUSH would have done similar things as clinton did.  It's only relevent now because of the magnitude of 9/11, but when you compare it to those things in Clinton's era, it's easy to sit and think Clinton didn't do enough.  That's another example of hindsight being 20/20 and then basing your beliefs on it. 

In addition.. Air security at airports has always been inadequate.  It is better now after 9/11 but still no where near perfect.  I will blame neither prez for that.

You should be blaming BUSH right now.  Because Airport security has been shown to be much more important because of 9/11 and what has BUSH done?  I travel all the time.  Since 2001 i've put between 30k and 50k in frequent flyer miles each year.  Airports are not even close to where they should be. 

And you don't blame BUSH?  Sounds like you are a BUSH sympathizer .

[OzmO]

not at all. those were clintons boys. that was his cia, his fbi. completely fucked up when bush took office. do you think when bush took office, he just fired every fed in the country and hired his own?

So you believe that the people who are responsible for security were incompetent and put there by Clinton?

Think about what you are saying.

And weren't these the same people who assigned some 200 agents to watch Clinton?

So they are under his control and he cuased them to be lax on security but couldn't stop them from watching him?

None of that makes sense.

[kh300]

Al Qaeda was in Iraq prior to the invasion.  So what.  It had no working relationship with Hussein.  Al Qaeda was in the US prior to the 9/11 attacks.  The terrorists lived and trained in the USA. 

What do you make of that?

So you are saying, much like Bush, that arresting OBL is not important any more?  That's unbelievable.

Bush has had almost 8 years to catch the world's most wanted man and he's failed.  He's even given up looking.

That's deplorable.

is bush in the middle east chasing him around? he's the president for christs sake. he's not the one looking for him

how about when clinton had OBL in custody but let him go. is that diplorable in deckers world?

[240 is Back]

How many tips do you think Bush/DOD/CIA/NSA etc get everyday.. if one came in with credibility they wouldn't know until after the fact.  I've seen intel.  There's only so much you can do and so much you can act on.  

9 of our allies gave us very direct intel in early august.

FBI director flew to crawford on red eye in middle of night with the 'osama determined to attaack' which contained serious details.  Plus germany and ISR both told us that day as well.  It's the day that all our allies found out at once.  

FBI director handed the report (containing targets, date, and 5 of their names) to condi, who then forgets who she gave it to, ashcroft or rummy, and neither of them remember either.  that big of a deal - flight in middle of night, arrive with sirens lit, and you don't even read it? lol... come on.

yes, we get a lot of intel.  but when you have 5 names, and it comes from all these sources directly, you check it out.  instead, the FBI investigation in hollywood FL was instantly FROZEN until after 911.  You explain that.  Clinton did that one too, huh?

[240 is Back]

how about when clinton had OBL in custody but let him go.

date and location, please?

[Decker]

is bush in the middle east chasing him around? he's the president for christs sake. he's not the one looking for him

how about when clinton had OBL in custody but let him go. is that diplorable in deckers world?

Clinton never had OBL in custody.

And it was Bush that disbanded the CIA unit in charge of hunting down OBL.

[240 is Back]

Clinton never had OBL in custody.

how about when clinton had OBL in custody but let him go.

Two hugely conflicting statements here.

Which man is correct?

[kh300]

date and location, please?

excuse me. the saudies had him and offerd him to clinton. close enough

[kh300]

9 of our allies gave us very direct intel in early august.

FBI director flew to crawford on red eye in middle of night with the 'osama determined to attaack' which contained serious details.  Plus germany and ISR both told us that day as well.  It's the day that all our allies found out at once.  

FBI director handed the report (containing targets, date, and 5 of their names) to condi, who then forgets who she gave it to, ashcroft or rummy, and neither of them remember either.  that big of a deal - flight in middle of night, arrive with sirens lit, and you don't even read it? lol... come on.

yes, we get a lot of intel.  but when you have 5 names, and it comes from all these sources directly, you check it out.  instead, the FBI investigation in hollywood FL was instantly FROZEN until after 911.  You explain that.  Clinton did that one too, huh?

can you show us these unclassified documents please?

[240 is Back]

can you show us these unclassified documents please?

nah, but congress is releasing a whole bunch of things in jan 2009.  i'll keep ya posted!

[Decker]

excuse me. the saudies had him and offerd him to clinton. close enough

You are repeating a tired right wing fantasy about Clinton and OBL.  It's been discredited multiple times but here we see you offering it up as proof again.

The Duelfer Report discredited your tale:

"[F]ormer Sudanese officials claim that Sudan offered to expel Bin Ladin to the United States.We have not found any reliable evidence to support the Sudanese claim."