Obama’s Spiritual Adviser Questioned U.S. Role in Spread of HIV, Sept. 11 Attack

[Dos Equis]

Proof have never been a requirement for deeming an allegation plausible, ...only logic & reason.

The operative word is plausible. I will re-iterate: I make no claim that the allegations are correct.
Simply that to label someone a "crackpot" in the presence of plausibility & precedent betrays an incredible amount of ignorance at best. More plausibly though (there's that word again), it displays a desperate bid to avert the eyes and attention of a public that might ask the question "What could make an educated and learned man espouse such theories?"

Those who spend their lives glued to the spectacle of Reality TV, American Idol, or the distraction of Paris Hilton's social life may have a hard time hearing, let alone accepting certain hard truths, ...however, the informed (and thankfully they are an ever increasing number) are able to get past the initial shock to their sensibilities. Despite the incredible intellectual deficit displayed by those of your ilk, I still believe there is hope for America and Americans. Every day Americans are standing up for change, and a departure from the status quo and old ways of doing things. As their eyes open wider and they begin to see who they once were, how far they have stepped away from that to become what they have, as well as the work still left to be done. As this process increases, the hard truths of where they were, and the vision of who they are to become grows every day clearer and clearer.

I am sorry that I tried to engage someone of your ilk.  It was a moment of temporary insanity.  People who believe in the wild conspiracy theories you embrace are just out of touch with reality.  I suspect that folks who don't interact with real people on a regular basis are more prone to accept these ridiculous, sinister theories.  On the other hand, it must be difficult for people who believe in these wild theories to interact with normal, intelligent people, because they would be not be taken seriously.  One example, as I watching Lou Dobbs last night, was Errol Louis, columnist with the New York Daily News and member of the New York Daily News Editorial Board, who had this to say about people like you:

DOBBS: Do you find that you agreed with his characterization of both the black community and the white community?

LOUIS: I thought he was spot on when he was talking about the black church, at least the mass black church, the kind of church like Trinity in Chicago where everybody is there. There are recovering addicts and there are statesmen and there are lawyers and there are ex-convicts and there are people who think that you know 9/11 was some sort of plot by the government and there are people who are much more rational than that and they all kind of come together --

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0803/18/ldt.01.html

He called people who believe in that asinine conspiracy theory irrational.  People who see a government conspiracy around every corner, like you, are beyond irrational. 

In any event, none of this makes the pastor's unqualified accusation that the government created HIV in a lab to kill black people any more plausible. 

[240 is Back]

Well, beach Bum, your argument - completely devoid of evidence to counter jag's evidence - might be completely correct.

however, 67% of your fellow Americans want a new 911 investigation.  So 2/3 of Americans are irrational.

Weren't you the one who told us a while back that Americans are, overall, very smart?

Hmmm...

[240 is Back]

I am sorry that I tried to engage someone of your ilk.  It was a moment of temporary insanity.  People who believe in the wild conspiracy theories you embrace are just out of touch with reality.  I suspect that folks who don't interact with real people on a regular basis are more prone to accept these ridiculous, sinister theories.  On the other hand, it must be difficult for people who believe in these wild theories to interact with normal, intelligent people, because they would be not be taken seriously.  One example, as I watching Lou Dobbs last night, was Errol Louis, columnist with the New York Daily News and member of the New York Daily News Editorial Board, who had this to say about people like you:

DOBBS: Do you find that you agreed with his characterization of both the black community and the white community?

LOUIS: I thought he was spot on when he was talking about the black church, at least the mass black church, the kind of church like Trinity in Chicago where everybody is there. There are recovering addicts and there are statesmen and there are lawyers and there are ex-convicts and there are people who think that you know 9/11 was some sort of plot by the government and there are people who are much more rational than that and they all kind of come together --

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0803/18/ldt.01.html

He called people who believe in that asinine conspiracy theory irrational.  People who see a government conspiracy around every corner, like you, are beyond irrational. 

In any event, none of this makes the pastor's unqualified accusation that the government created HIV in a lab to kill black people any more plausible. 

I noticed your argument lacked any counters to jag's claims.

Please prove her claims wrong so we can see what a stupid and impossible theory it is.  yesterday was the first time I heard it, and while it seems silly, she has presented some evidence.

Your post was great, but it did little more than redirect the topic to Dobbs interviewing some guy bashing 911 CTers.  Um, this thread isn't about that.  You might as well bring up the Holocaust, as I know you find nazi jokes to be funny, BB.

So please, refute her claims with evidence so people cannot accuse you of trying to ignore her evidence and steamroll the argument with unrelated CT bashing.  Thanks!

[24KT]

If you (and others) really believe HIV was created and unleased on black Americans during the 1980s, there are more issues in this country than I thought. 

I did not say I believed it, ...I said that it is naive at best to label those who do, as mere "crackpots" in the face of such egregious examples of previous precedent.

And YES, ...there are more issues in the USA than most Americans are aware of. It's just like I had said to one poster in PM about a post I had made regarding the issues & challenges facing todays independant owner/operator truck drivers. (A post which imo was subsequently thoughtlessly censored due to the hypersensitivity and pavlovian responses of a reader, )...

Prior to 2 yrs ago, I had no idea the scope of challenges independent owner/operator long haul truck drivers were facing to not only survive, but to keep your country running. Because I don't drive an 18 wheeler every day, their challenges and issues weren't in my face 24/7, and I had no idea what was going on. I believe that to be true for the majority of the population. However, ...let the price of bread, milk, and other commodities that need to be trucked in start to rise, let it start to affect every day people, ...and they begin to see some of those challenges that have been affecting their brother. America is on the verge of change. She has an opportunity ahead of her, not unlike that which she experienced back in 1776. It is one where Americans endeavor to bridge the gap that divides her country across so many spectrums, and begins to learn & understand the issues confronting and facing each other on a daily basis. There ARE alot of issues in America, however, there is much common ground. If Americans are willing to find it, to not be so insular and myopic in her outlooks & perspectives, she can use that common ground to move forward towards that more perfect union that was the intent of the framers of her constitution.

[24KT]

I am sorry that I tried to engage someone of your ilk.

You should be. You should also be quite grateful I have an 8:30 appt. with Australia, which precludes my factually & intellectually tearing you a new one.

  It was a moment of temporary insanity.

We have all noticed you experience this quite frequently.

People who believe in the wild conspiracy theories you embrace are just out of touch with reality.

Why you insist upon ascribing some belief system to me in the face of such continued denial is beyond me. Do you really believe the readers here so stupid. I will re-iterate for the last time. I am not saying I believe or embrace his theories, simply that to label someone a "crackpot" in the face of so many egregious examples from history is naive and/or disengenuous.

[War-Horse]

Jag, everyone here took your post as you wrote it. Except BB of course.   Most of us are learning that nothings impossible in this day and age.     Some people dont want to look around as they are brainwashed that things are fine.       Talking sense to them is a waste of time....We dont have to believe everything, but at least we can consider it and be armed with knowledge instead of ignorance.

[24KT]

Jag, everyone here took your post as you wrote it. Except BB of course.   Most of us are learning that nothings impossible in this day and age.     Some people dont want to look around as they are brainwashed that things are fine.       Talking sense to them is a waste of time....We dont have to believe everything, but at least we can consider it and be armed with knowledge instead of ignorance.

Thank You.

With that... I'm off to connect with Newcastle! 

[240 is Back]

Beach Bum, please silence these worthless libs by just proving her claims wrong with actual facts.

What are you waiting for, BB?  Shut these libs up.  It's all over the news tonight, people are talking about it in forums all over the world.  

Just show us proof it's all crazy nonsense, please, I'm tired of hearing about it!

[Dos Equis]

You should be. You should also be quite grateful I have an 8:30 appt. with Australia, which precludes my factually & intellectually tearing you a new one.

We have all noticed you experience this quite frequently.

Why you insist upon ascribing some belief system to me in the face of such continued denial is beyond me. Do you really believe the readers here so stupid. I will re-iterate for the last time. I am not saying I believe or embrace his theories, simply that to label someone a "crackpot" in the face of so many egregious examples from history is naive and/or disengenuous.

Why do I insist on ascribing a belief system to you?  Oh I don't know, maybe because:

1.  You believe the U.S. government carried out 911.

2.  You believe President Bush has bribed the media.

3.  You believe the CIA controls the media. 

4.  You're a few fries short of a Happy Meal.  Case in point:  http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=175811.0

Regarding your proof that the United States government created HIV in a lab to kill black people, it doesn't exist.  But given what I posted above, I can understand why you believe it or find it "plausible." 

[240 is Back]

Beach Bum,

You're playing right into the CTer hands.  You're completely dodging the HIV talk and making it about 911, media, bush, etc.  Why politicize it, and make it about "Jag"? 

Why would you try to avoid refuting her obviously silly statement?  I can tell you that the sky is green, you can quickly WIKI proof that I'm wrong.  I can't understand why you refuse to point out how her facts are wrong.

I'm starting to think that you're like jag, and you believe that stuff.  Is that it?  I know you're anti-gun and you voted for a lib clinton before.  Do you attend Obama's church?  Do you think the pastor is right?  Damn, I"m disappointed in you man.

[24KT]

Still attempting to avoid the issue, and deflect discussion to irrelevant areas? pitifully predictable.

That tactic is staler than month old bread, ...or to borrow a phrase Bay turned me onto the other day,
Your intellect appears to me to be ...duller than day old douche water.

[Option D]

McCain has a spiritual advisor?  Who? 

GWB's Spiritual advisor is Mr. Pat "we need to kill Hugo Chavez/KAtrina was Gods way of getting the gays out of New Orleans, but im still a christian Robertson

[24KT]

GWB's Spiritual advisor is Mr. Pat "we need to kill Hugo Chavez/KAtrina was Gods way of getting the gays out of New Orleans, but im still a christian Robertson

This same man could be said to be responsible for the sad state of affairs within the US justice dept;
...lawyers with no concept or understanding of what the law actually is, ...or that it applies to them and the pResident

[Option D]

This same man could be said to be responsible for the sad state of affairs within the US justice dept;
...lawyers with no concept or understanding of what the law actually is, ...or that it applies to them and the pResident

yeah i needed to read more about that...Pat has some kind of bull crap law school right...and a lot of the USJD appointees were hand selected by Bush from that bougus school