Author Topic: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay  (Read 11173 times)

Slapper

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2008, 09:57:27 AM »
When did I disclose my position on Guantánamo? Where did I say it was a good idea? You're not assuming things are you?

My first statement was fly and my second was trying to show that the men in there aren't innocent.

Nordic Superman dixit: "Did they also describe how islam openly condones slavery, polygamy, child molestation and muslim supremacism?". Your first statement insinuates that Islam... well, you be the judge. My response was that we're in no position to critizize Islam, from any angle. My use of Guantánamo was just a recent example of that.

headhuntersix

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2008, 10:01:15 AM »
Why can't we critize Islam?
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headhuntersix

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2008, 10:03:46 AM »
THis guy is a teddybear right.



Top Al Qaeda Figure Who Aided Bin Laden Captured
WASHINGTON (AP) ― After secret interrogations, the CIA transferred to U.S. military custody a high-level Al Qaeda figure who helped Osama bin Laden escape from Afghanistan in 2001, the Pentagon announced Friday.


Mohammad Rahim was detained last summer, CIA Director Michael Hayden said, but the intelligence official didn't reveal where or by whom. The CIA turned Rahim over to the military earlier this week in what Hayden said was the first such transfer from his agency's interrogation program since April 2007.

Rahim is now being held at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Hayden said.

"Rahim's detention in the summer of 2007 was a blow to more than one terrorist network," Hayden told agency employees in a memo obtained by The Associated Press. "He gave aid to Al Qaeda, the Taliban and other anti-coalition militants."

Since early in the global war on terrorism following the Sept. 11 attacks by Al Qaeda, the CIA has held captured suspects in secret prisons and interrogated them. Rahim became the 16th so-called "high-value" suspect handed over to the military by the CIA and held at Guantanamo.

Although U.S. officials refused to say where Rahim was captured, an Aug. 2 story in Pakistan's The Nation said Rahim was one of two Al Qaeda and Taliban aides picked up by authorities. Rahim being arrested in Lahore a few days before publication of the article, the report said.

"Rahim is a tough, seasoned jihadist," Hayden said. "His combat experience, which dates back to the 1980s, includes plots against U.S. and Afghan targets."

Rahim is a close associate of bin Laden and has ties to Al Qaeda organizations throughout the Middle East, according to Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman. Officials said Rahim helped arrange the Al Qaeda hideout at Tora Bora -- a mountain area full of warrens used by bin Laden during the 2001 U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.

He assisted Al Qaeda's escape from the area during the U.S. operation to try to catch the Al Qaeda leader, officials said.

"In 2001, as the terrorist haven in Afghanistan was collapsing, Rahim helped prepare Tora Bora as a hideout," Hayden said. "When Al Qaeda had to flee from there, Rahim was part of that operation, too."

Officials allege that he sought chemicals for one attack on U.S. forces in Afghanistan, and tried to recruit individuals with access to American military facilities there.

"While that record alone would justify Rahim's capture, it does not fully describe his place in the terrorist infrastructure," Hayden said. "Proficient in several languages and familiar with the border areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan, he was also an extremist facilitator and courier with high-level contacts."

Rahim is perhaps best known in counterterror circles as a personal facilitator and translator for bin Laden and other Al Qaeda leaders, Hayden said.

Hayden said the most powerful tool against terror suspects "is good intelligence work, including cultivation of the partnerships overseas that were so critical to ending the terrorist career of Mohammad Rahim."

L

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2008, 10:05:26 AM »
Can we just stay on topic and not make sweeping generalities?

These three guys were found INNOCENT. They were RELEASED and told their story and now some of you call it propaganda. Unreal. Can't you just put yourself in someone else's shoes for one minute? Could you imagine going through what they went through knowing you're innocent the whole time? (Both governments confirmed it, so stop saying they really were terrorists). How many innocent people have gone through this shit and then you wonder why we have a growng problems with Islamic Extremists? Can't some of you connect the dots?

We have first hand information about what goes on in there, we have photo's of what is happening there, we have soilder information of what happened there and yet some of you still won't admit or don't care that torture both mental and physical goes on there.


Bindare_Dundat

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2008, 10:09:23 AM »
Good post..Gitmo has had the International red cross investigate and by and large they have had no incidents or problems. These are bad folks who were taught to lie about their treatment...its right out of the AQ play book. Slapper ur world view is so naive as to be laughable.

Smile for the camera's, so to speak, once they leave it's back to business as usual.

headhuntersix

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2008, 10:14:56 AM »
Ur post shows how naive u (generalization) are to the US military and the US Army specifically...i know u will take that wrong..but don't. We eat our own. This is not the 60's. Everybody is worrried about being seen to cover shit up. Look at Abu Garib. Nobody would ever have known. Also Bserker has mentioned some of the propaganda stuff that the Pentagon has been involved in....our own guys leaked that. Primarily to protect a certain way of honestly doing business. If u want to run a camp like that..u don't allow international scrutiny. There are plenty of places to do that sort of thing. Maybe they were innocent..ur life and the lives of ur family are not worth making a mistake.
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Dos Equis

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2008, 10:16:34 AM »

duty there is difficult for the Sailors, Marines, and Soldiers present.  Any wrongdoings, actual or even alleged, are fully investigated and punishment is severe.    

True.  Happens throughout the military.  We hold them accountable.  It's one of the differences between us and them. 

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2008, 10:21:20 AM »
Ur post shows how naive u (generalization) are to the US military and the US Army specifically...i know u will take that wrong..but don't. We eat our own. This is not the 60's. Everybody is worrried about being seen to cover shit up. Look at Abu Garib. Nobody would ever have known. Also Bserker has mentioned some of the propaganda stuff that the Pentagon has been involved in....our own guys leaked that. Primarily to protect a certain way of honestly doing business. If u want to run a camp like that..u don't allow international scrutiny. There are plenty of places to do that sort of thing. Maybe they were innocent..ur life and the lives of ur family are not worth making a mistake.

Remember, you were the one that said, "No one in the Balkans hates America."  ::) Should I post all the articles to the contrary? Do I have to post mp3's of people who live there that say otherwise? I used to read many of your posts but I'm finding out that you are really misinformed.

headhuntersix

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2008, 10:26:04 AM »
They get everything they want. The guys at the prison in Afghanistan play soccer...u could hear them everyday. The prison was near to one of the chowhalls..once while waiting in line we saw a buch of  US soldiers tackle an Egyptian soldier on the ball court opposite the line. The hogtied him and the MP's took him away. He had trown something over the wall to the guys playing soccer. Nothing was ever mentioned. They have it ok....if ur in CIA hands its different. They work out of 3rd country prisons where the rules benefit the flow of information. ;D

Where in the Balkans..if they are Sebs then I guess they do....our policy there is ridiculous. If I said that then i should have done a better job. I imagine they really hate us now and I can't blame them. That was Clinton and it was a mistake.
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headhuntersix

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2008, 10:28:22 AM »
My previous comments on the Balkans were while I was there and we were establishing order. I never though we were on the right side of that one...regardless Europe should have taken the lead.
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Bindare_Dundat

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2008, 10:52:43 AM »
My previous comments on the Balkans were while I was there and we were establishing order. I never though we were on the right side of that one...regardless Europe should have taken the lead.

American foriegn policy is so detached from what is actually happening in the minds of the "enemy", that it is going to cause shit everywhere it sticks it's nose. Unfortunatly.

Think of how we could sway the minds of the "enemy" buy being the exact oppsite of what we have been doing all these years.


headhuntersix

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2008, 11:10:50 AM »
The "enemy" hates us and the West regardless....we have entangled in alot of spots we shouldn't be.
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OzmO

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2008, 11:40:05 AM »
Did they also describe how islam openly condones slavery, polygamy, child molestation and muslim supremacism?
you know you may have a point.   Because they condone these things it's justified for the US th treat them that way. 

We should increase our torture methods to making them listen to Brittany spears records.

Slapper

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2008, 01:12:15 PM »
HH6, you need some Pepto-Bismol for the brain my man!

War-Horse

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2008, 01:37:39 PM »
The "enemy" hates us and the West regardless....we have entangled in alot of spots we shouldn't be.





Yeah....."Lets stay the course".......... ::)

Camel Jockey

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2008, 03:17:01 PM »
People shouldn't be chucked into a military prison without trail.

Deicide

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2008, 05:13:38 PM »
Islam sucks. All religion sucks, however the if you have a rabid dog and you kick it, you will make it that much angrier.

That's what American foreign policy does and.

The USA CAN go broke. As I mentioned before, people living in the 2nd century CE of the Pax Romana sang on about the Eternal City every day but in 476 CE I can assure you people were singing a different tune, even earlier than that.

In the next few decades the United States will have to learn to be just another country in the world because it's going broke. The money is NOT there.
I hate the State.

Nordic Superman

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2008, 04:54:32 AM »
Nordic Superman dixit: "Did they also describe how islam openly condones slavery, polygamy, child molestation and muslim supremacism?". Your first statement insinuates that Islam... well, you be the judge. My response was that we're in no position to critizize Islam, from any angle. My use of Guantánamo was just a recent example of that.

Wow, total lack of intelligence on your part.

I'm in a fabulous position, as is anyone else in a country with freedom of speech, and the freedom to criticise ANYTHING.

It's absolutely critical for us to openly criticise islam and all religions from EVERY angle.

My statement doesn't insinuate anything, those are hard boiled facts. Do you care to disprove any of those statements I mean in regards to islam? Tip: you can't.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Nordic Superman

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2008, 04:57:04 AM »
you know you may have a point.   Because they condone these things it's justified for the US th treat them that way. 

We should increase our torture methods to making them listen to Brittany spears records.

When did you turn into a troll?
الاسلام هو شيطانية

youandme

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2008, 05:23:46 AM »
Why can't we critize Islam?

It's not PC

Slapper

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2008, 06:43:22 AM »
Wow, total lack of intelligence on your part.

I'm in a fabulous position, as is anyone else in a country with freedom of speech, and the freedom to criticise ANYTHING.

It's absolutely critical for us to openly criticise islam and all religions from EVERY angle.

My statement doesn't insinuate anything, those are hard boiled facts. Do you care to disprove any of those statements I mean in regards to islam? Tip: you can't.

No, you're right in that you do have a right to criticise anything... sort of. Some things you WILL NOT be able to criticise openly in this country. Not for long anyway. I do agre with you on that. The problem is that some of Islam's sects (Wahabbists, etc) are indeed a piece of shit that offer humanity nothing short of total anihilation. HOWEVER, a greater part of Islam is open minded, in their own ways, and in many islamic countries religion is secondary to the citizen's rights.

Not only that, historically, Islam provided the grounds for one of the most "fertile" periods of human history: Al-Andalus, where sciences were taken to another level, the religious tolerance was lightyears ahead of anyone else, etc. Compare that with Christianity, during the same period, or later periods, whichever you prefer, and you will see that US CHRISTIANS have taken part in ALL of the most murderous rampages, the majority of them backed by the Church.

What am I saying with all of this? Do not be a hypocrite, clean up your house before you try to clean up someone else's. Do not point the finger at a minority, yes, a minority! of radicalized nazis just because their badder than the worst of your homeboys. And what your comment shows is a total ignorance of the Islamic world, by pointing the finger at all of them, as opposed to the ones causing the problem. Is slavery condoned in Morocco? Yes, it is not legal. Is pedophilia persecuted by law in Algeria? Yes! There go your hard-boiled facts.

So much shit, so little toilet paper!

And besides, we have our own set of unsolved problems that we must deal with before we go around "fixin'" someone else's problems.

Slapper

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2008, 06:55:46 AM »
Islam sucks. All religion sucks, however the if you have a rabid dog and you kick it, you will make it that much angrier.

Exactly! I do not know how we Christians have the balls to go around the world "teaching" ethics, love and all that bullshit. The Church is behind some of the worst attrocities in human history! It's beyond me how someone could just say that Islam does not persecute, hence pasively encourage, pedophilia, slavery, etc.

It's beyond me!!

Nordic Superman

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2008, 07:21:42 AM »
No, you're right in that you do have a right to criticise anything... sort of. Some things you WILL NOT be able to criticise openly in this country. Not for long anyway. I do agre with you on that. The problem is that some of Islam's sects (Wahabbists, etc) are indeed a piece of shit that offer humanity nothing short of total anihilation. HOWEVER, a greater part of Islam is open minded, in their own ways, and in many islamic countries religion is secondary to the citizen's rights.

Islam is islam, the koran is the koran. Which sect of islam doesn't justify slavery, polygamy, child molestation, lack of women's rights?

Can you name an islamic country where religion is secondary? Name me a single country which was islamised by peaceful means.

Not only that, historically, Islam provided the grounds for one of the most "fertile" periods of human history: Al-Andalus, where sciences were taken to another level, the religious tolerance was lightyears ahead of anyone else, etc. Compare that with Christianity, during the same period, or later periods, whichever you prefer, and you will see that US CHRISTIANS have taken part in ALL of the most murderous rampages, the majority of them backed by the Church.

This is not entirely true. How did the muslims control Spain? Via Conquests. Aggressive conquests. If you researched the Christian conquests in their entirety you would find it was a tactical and defensive movement against muslim aggressors.

The treatment of non-muslims during Al-Andalus is detable. Let's not forget non-muslims were still second class, "lesser humans" than muslims and paid the jizya. Can you explain to me the Western Christian comparison?

"Bernard Lewis takes issue with this view, arguing its modern use is ahistorical and apologetic. He argues that Islam traditionally did not offer such equality nor even pretended that it did, arguing that it would be both a "theological as well as a logical absurdity.""

PS. I'm not Christian I'm atheist.

What am I saying with all of this? Do not be a hypocrite, clean up your house before you try to clean up someone else's. Do not point the finger at a minority, yes, a minority! of radicalized nazis just because their badder than the worst of your homeboys. And what your comment shows is a total ignorance of the Islamic world, by pointing the finger at all of them, as opposed to the ones causing the problem. Is slavery condoned in Morocco? Yes, it is not legal. Is pedophilia persecuted by law in Algeria? Yes! There go your hard-boiled facts.

Total ignorance of the islamic world? Come on now, give me a break. You've refuted nothing but have exposed yourself as an apologist.

Your own hypocrisy is unmatched going from:

Quote
My response was that we're in no position to critizize Islam, from any angle.

To your latest post. :-\
الاسلام هو شيطانية

headhuntersix

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2008, 08:05:40 AM »
No, you're right in that you do have a right to criticise anything... sort of. Some things you WILL NOT be able to criticise openly in this country. Not for long anyway. I do agre with you on that. The problem is that some of Islam's sects (Wahabbists, etc) are indeed a piece of shit that offer humanity nothing short of total anihilation. HOWEVER, a greater part of Islam is open minded, in their own ways, and in many islamic countries religion is secondary to the citizen's rights.

Not only that, historically, Islam provided the grounds for one of the most "fertile" periods of human history: Al-Andalus, where sciences were taken to another level, the religious tolerance was lightyears ahead of anyone else, etc. Compare that with Christianity, during the same period, or later periods, whichever you prefer, and you will see that US CHRISTIANS have taken part in ALL of the most murderous rampages, the majority of them backed by the Church.
What am I saying with all of this? Do not be a hypocrite, clean up your house before you try to clean up someone else's. Do not point the finger at a minority, yes, a minority! of radicalized nazis just because their badder than the worst of your homeboys. And what your comment shows is a total ignorance of the Islamic world, by pointing the finger at all of them, as opposed to the ones causing the problem. Is slavery condoned in Morocco? Yes, it is not legal. Is pedophilia persecuted by law in Algeria? Yes! There go your hard-boiled facts.

So much shit, so little toilet paper!

And besides, we have our own set of unsolved problems that we must deal with before we go around "fixin'" someone else's problems.


All this is pure bullshit...as the Caliphates spread across the globe, they sucked up ideas, technologies etc from the countries they invaded and occupied. Now u'll come back that what I just posted is BS and I'll paste some crap from somebody who disputes that and it will go on and on....the bottom line is this, thats all in the past. The Catholic Church and her mistakes are in the past. Islam and her mistakes are killing people now...its views and backward thinking are creating genocide in Africa. I don't remember wearing a white tabard and Maltese cross as I drove across Iraq. But every day the islamist invoke the name of Allah as they kill and wound our troops, their own countrymen and other innocents across the world. Islam today cannot be defended.
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Slapper

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Re: 3 British Muslims describe torture at Guantanamo Bay
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2008, 08:29:40 AM »

All this is pure bullshit...as the Caliphates spread across the globe, they sucked up ideas, technologies etc from the countries they invaded and occupied. Now u'll come back that what I just posted is BS and I'll paste some crap from somebody who disputes that and it will go on and on....the bottom line is this, thats all in the past.

And what kingdom/monarchy, democracy or republic did the Caliphates exactly sucked their ideas from? The Vikings? Wait, the Egyptians? The Greeks? I'd like to see the answer to that one because Europe was full fledge into their Middle Ages and BARELY NOTHING was created in Europe back then.

Quote
The Catholic Church and her mistakes are in the past.

Northern Ireland, the nazi extermination of the jews, etc... Should I go on?

Quote
Islam and her mistakes are killing people now...its views and backward thinking are creating genocide in Africa.

Right, and we're spreading democracy by peaceful means, with little or no collateral damage.

Quote
I don't remember wearing a white tabard and Maltese cross as I drove across Iraq. But every day the islamist invoke the name of Allah as they kill and wound our troops, their own countrymen and other innocents across the world. Islam today cannot be defended.

The people you're referring to are a minority. Although our actions, American action that is, is creating thousands of them by the minute... And polarizing moderate muslim opinion!

I think there's a lot of misconceptions and things we do not know about Islam. I do agree that their bad seeds, the wahabbists and the like are really human waste, but so are some of the Christian movements.

Go get a real job that contributes to the economy and not to world conflict!