Has Anybody Heard Of Ape Growth Hormone.

[timfogarty]

also, collecting and processing cadavers is difficult.  not exactly someone could do specifically for the black market.  and no pharmaceutical company would do it because there is no market for it, as well as too much risk of disease.

[Van_Bilderass]

There would be NO reason to take GH from cadavers today;

1- The COST

It is 100's of times cheaper and easier to use synthetic-so I do not believe the claim that there is GH coming from cadavers in this day and age.

2- The risks of infectious disease

It is VERY high, so again, it would be beyond stupid to use cadaver GH today. Maybe back in the late 70's, when there was no choice, but not today.

You must remember why no one used real GH, before Humatrope. There was simply a very small supply, you could NOT get large amounts of GH because it came from DEAD PEOPLE, and the amounts you could get were very small. It would take many dead people to make a cycle (I would imagine, can't say I really know-but if you know what the pituitary glad looks like, it is very small, no bigger than a nickel).

I also have to question the part of the article that says it could tell the difference between synthetic and real GH.



Now, is it possible some moron is getting cadaver GH, I guess so- but it would be stupidity at it's finest hour.

Plus the article is basically making a hearsay, third party uninformed statement. Unless they personally knew GH was coming from cadavers, with their own eyes, I do not believe it.

It just does not make any sense given the cheap cost of synthetic GH today and the safety factor.

Do you have the educational background to say it's impossible to differentiate between cadaveric and rhGH by using the assays in the article?

The guy who wrote the article works for William Llewellyn (author of the 'Anabolics' books).

I don't know how much the production costs would differ nowadays. Do you really know it's "100 times cheaper" to produce the rhGH?

Most bodybuilders do not pay the pharmacy prices for growth. Chinese growth, stolen growth, growth bought from HIV+ patients, etc, is what most use. It's still very expensive from legitimate channels.

BTW, does anyone know if hCG has resulted in transmission of any diseases?

[JohnnyVegas]

Do you have the educational background to say it's impossible to differentiate between cadaveric and rhGH by using the assays in the article?

The guy who wrote the article works for William Llewellyn (author of the 'Anabolics' books).

I don't know how much the production costs would differ nowadays. Do you really know it's "100 times cheaper" to produce the rhGH?

Most bodybuilders do not pay the pharmacy prices for growth. Chinese growth, stolen growth, growth bought from HIV+ patients, etc, is what most use. It's still very expensive from legitimate channels.

BTW, does anyone know if hCG has resulted in transmission of any diseases?

If the guy is involved with some steroid guru who writes books, that right there is all you need to know they don't know what they are talking about.

As to synthetic GH being 100's of times cheaper, that may be off, it is more likely thousands of times cheaper. Seriously. Getting real GH is not as easy as making fake steroids, you need to have a supply of dead people, were is that going to come from??? Not happening.

Chinese and other GH sources are, from what I have heard, highly suspect and some down right useless. I have no first hand information, since I have never used any GH-ever.

When a person dies bacteria sets in immediatley, and the body starts to deompose and break down, even if it is frozen, so of course there is a high chance of infection. I would never use real cadaver GH-even of it were free.

So, I don't know what to tell you, except that I do not believe the person who wrote the article.

[JohnnyVegas]

also, collecting and processing cadavers is difficult.  not exactly someone could do specifically for the black market.  and no pharmaceutical company would do it because there is no market for it, as well as too much risk of disease.

One would think so.....

[Van_Bilderass]

If the guy is involved with some steroid guru who writes books, that right there is all you need to know they don't know what they are talking about.

Take a look at this article in Lancet. This should qualify as fairly reliable, no?

Self-administration of cadaveric growth hormone in power athletes

Letters to the Editor

The Lancet Vol 341(8847) Mar 20, 1993 pp768-769
Deyssig, Roman; Frisch, Herwig
Department of Endocrinology, University Children's Clinic, 1090 Wien, Austria

Sir,

With the association between use of pituitary-derived growth hormone and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, keeping patients informed without causing unnecessary alarm can be difficult. Knowing about the potential hazard by the use of cadaveric growth hormone, we report risky use of this type of growth hormone for non-medical purposes and without a specialist's prescription by some power athletes, often in combination with androgenic-anabolic steroids, to increase muscle strength and reduce fat mass.

The cadaveric growth hormone is available on the black market and is about half the price of recombinant growth hormone. The source of the cadaveric growth hormone is the former Soviet Union where pituitary-derived growth hormone is still produced. We presume that this group of growth hormone recipients is not adequately informed about the potential risk for Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease and the possible risk of transmission by tissue or organ donation.

We had the opportunity to analyse a growth hormone ampoule from the former Soviet Union. The specific activity was low (about 2 U/mg protein) and on sodium dodecylsulphate gel-electrophoresis was not pure monomeric, which jeopardises the quality of this hormone. It appears unlikely that suitable precautions were taken to eliminate contamination.

Because this type of growth hormone is used in other countries, (anecdotally we know of use by weight lifters and body builders in Germany, Poland, Italy, and Austria), more information should be given to potential users.

[PMID: 8095679]

[timfogarty]

I don't know how much the production costs would differ nowadays. Do you really know it's "100 times cheaper" to produce the rhGH?

let's see:   collect and dissect dozens of cadavers, extract and process their pituitary gland for a few hundred mg of HGH; or grow E Coli in a vat.

BTW, does anyone know if hCG has resulted in transmission of any diseases?

pee is rather sterile.

there have been suspected cases of Hep-B transmission, but it was determined that the jet-injector was the cause:  http://www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/00000744.htm

We had the opportunity to analyse a growth hormone ampoule from the former Soviet Union. The specific activity was low (about 2 U/mg protein) and on sodium dodecylsulphate gel-electrophoresis was not pure monomeric, which jeopardises the quality of this hormone. It appears unlikely that suitable precautions were taken to eliminate contamination.

ok, so it's half the price, but contains very little active or usable HGH, and no precautions were taken to filter out prions or other disease causing agents.

[Epic_Monster]

I didn't realize we had so many doctors/chemists here!!

[wolfgang187]

YES THIS POOR BLACK GAY STREET THUG WITH AIDS SELLS IT ON HIS WEBSITE, SO I'VE BEEN TOLD.

[JohnnyVegas]

You do know that Lancet letter is 15 years old don't you.....

Again, it is written by a person who treats children for a deficient GH production, and he may have second hand info on GH. Don't know what to say, except I would not put much faith in it.  

It appears unlikely that suitable precautions were taken to eliminate contamination.


Here the writer hits the nail on the head;

(anecdotally we know of use by weight lifters and body builders in Germany, Poland, Italy, and Austria),

[Van_Bilderass]

You do know that Lancet letter is 15 years old don't you.....

Again, it is written by a person who treats children for a deficient GH production, and he may have second hand info on GH. Don't know what to say, except I would not put much faith in it. 

It appears unlikely that suitable precautions were taken to eliminate contamination.


Here the writer hits the nail on the head;

(anecdotally we know of use by weight lifters and body builders in Germany, Poland, Italy, and Austria),

Yes it's 15 years old but you said cadaveric growth was only available in the late 80s- early 90s. And now only rhGH is available and it's much cheaper, which the letter disputes. Like I said, I have seen this particular product with my own eyes only a few years ago.
The article said that anecdotally it was used by bodybuilders in those countries, it didn't say it was only "anecdotally available" as they analyzed an ampule of it.

Anyone read German? Is this pretty much the same article I linked earlier?
http://www.loegd.nrw.de/1pdf_dokumente/3_arzneimittel/illegale-somatropinpr%E4parate-DAZ-45-2002.pdf

[Van_Bilderass]

let's see:   collect and dissect dozens of cadavers, extract and process their pituitary gland for a few hundred mg of HGH; or grow E Coli in a vat.

I don't know which is cheaper to manufacture. The technology to set up a lab that can manufacture rhGH is extremely expensive I'm sure. The Lancet article said cadaveric was half the price of rhGH though.

Based on what I posted do you think cadaveric GH is still on the black market, or was a few years ago at least?

I remember gh15 posting about some American athletes using cadaveric growth still. Can't find the post though.

[timfogarty]

Yes it's 15 years old but you said cadaveric growth was only available in the late 80s- early 90s.

um, do the math.  the article was published in 1993, talking about the recent past.  that would be late 80s and early 90s.   

I don't know which is cheaper to manufacture. The technology to set up a lab that can manufacture rhGH is extremely expensive I'm sure.

sure its expensive to set up a proper lab, but then you can make huge vats of it over and over again

The Lancet article said cadaveric was half the price of rhGH though.

no, it said that this poorly manufactured bio-inactive stuff that was not pure and likely full of prions which can cause CJD, was selling for half the price.

[Van_Bilderass]

um, do the math.  the article was published in 1993, talking about the recent past.  that would be late 80s and early 90s.   

OK. I don't see what your point is though. I guess what you're saying is that this stuff is absolutely positively not manufactured anywhere in the world anymore? And hasn't been since the early 90s? This is my only argument here, that it seems it has found its way into bodybuilders hands even in the recent years.

The German article I linked was from 2002.
http://www.loegd.nrw.de/1pdf_dokumente/3_arzneimittel/illegale-somatropinpr%E4parate-DAZ-45-2002.pdf

I don't see why the doctors doing the study would have lied about the results. It was right around 2002 that I saw this specific product.

[timfogarty]

This is my only argument here, that it seems it has found its way into bodybuilders hands even in the recent years.

in the 70s and 80s it took massive coordination to collect and process enough cadavers to supply a few thousand kids with GH.   it cost tens of thousands of dollars per kid, and the doses were trivial compared to what bodybuilders take today.   today there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people taking GH.

today there is no coordinated effort to collect the bodies of adolescent males who have died of trauma, not even in Russia.   and there is no reason to believe that it would be any cheaper to harvest and produce today than it was 30 years ago.

and we know now that the risk of CJD is very real in cadaver produced GH.  No reputable company, not even in Russia, would take on that liability when a much safer product is available.

[io856]

There would have to plenty of adolescent males who die of trauma. How much iu equivliancy would an average adolescent male dying of trauma provide?

[JohnnyVegas]

in the 70s and 80s it took massive coordination to collect and process enough cadavers to supply a few thousand kids with GH.   it cost tens of thousands of dollars per kid, and the doses were trivial compared to what bodybuilders take today.   today there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people taking GH.

today there is no coordinated effort to collect the bodies of adolescent males who have died of trauma, not even in Russia.   and there is no reason to believe that it would be any cheaper to harvest and produce today than it was 30 years ago.

and we know now that the risk of CJD is very real in cadaver produced GH.  No reputable company, not even in Russia, would take on that liability when a much safer product is available.

Exactly.

There would have to plenty of adolescent males who die of trauma. How much iu equivliancy would an average adolescent male dying of trauma provide?

I have no idea. but not very much considering the size of the "master gland", which is puny.

[io856]

bump for gh15

[PORKY]

Think of the late Lyle Alzado of LA Raiders when you think HGH off a dead cadaver.

[timfogarty]

Think of the late Lyle Alzado of LA Raiders when you think HGH off a dead cadaver.

he wasn't an adolescent.  he didn't die of trauma.   

think of kids dying in auto accidents.  think of soldiers dying in war

[Van_Bilderass]

Think of the late Lyle Alzado of LA Raiders when you think HGH off a dead cadaver.

No, think AIDS when you think of Alzado (I assume you are linking GH to his death).

[JohnnyVegas]

No, think AIDS when you think of Alzado (I assume you are linking GH to his death).

AIDS is the winning answer.


But he was a strong mother fucker for a fat piece of shit.

[PORKY]

No, think AIDS when you think of Alzado (I assume you are linking GH to his death).

Yup was thinking GH to his death.Read it in some mag or paper clipping but Aids?

[timfogarty]

Yup was thinking GH to his death.Read it in some mag or paper clipping but Aids?

Lyle Alzado died in 1992.   GH was just beginning to become popular.

Alzado claimed that his 'brain tumor' was due to steroid abuse.   but he told that story because he didn't want people to know that he had HIV.   he didn't even have a brain tumor, he had a specific kind of lymphoma, the type that is an opportunistic infection for people with compromised immune systems.  Today 99% of such cases of this disease are AIDS related.   In fact, it is one of the few opportunistic infections that is still a problem 25 years into the epidemic.   

After he died, his doctor, a lymphoma specialist at City of Hope, confirmed in the LA Times that steroids had nothing to do with his disease or his death.