Author Topic: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...  (Read 2021 times)

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« on: March 18, 2008, 07:17:32 AM »
I want to mix up my next HST a bit.

I have never done good mornings before. Would they be a good substitute for deadlifts?

Also, what are the advantages of a front squats over conventional ones?

Cheers...
I hate the State.

davie

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1986
  • Getbig!
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2008, 08:02:10 AM »
Good morning are good for the lower back/hammies which in turn helps ur squat/deadlift numbers.

Front squats put some more emphasis on the quads (do them with heals slightly raised), and away from the hammies/ass. Good for tear drop (vastus medialis).

Hows ur HST results (i tried it few years ago wen i 1st started lifting)?

davie
It isn't the mountains ah

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2008, 08:15:07 AM »
Good morning are good for the lower back/hammies which in turn helps ur squat/deadlift numbers.

Front squats put some more emphasis on the quads (do them with heals slightly raised), and away from the hammies/ass. Good for tear drop (vastus medialis).

Hows ur HST results (i tried it few years ago wen i 1st started lifting)?

davie

OK. I use HST as a dieting routine because of the large number of compound exercises which you repetitively do. Also I so a scheme like 15/10/5 each week rather than the traditional.
I hate the State.

davie

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1986
  • Getbig!
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2008, 08:34:15 AM »
KulKul..

Im doing Good morning in my DC rotation at the mo, warms up back b4 i do heavy squats.
I keep reps high, 3 rest/paused sets of 16,12,12.

davie
It isn't the mountains ah

dov

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3469
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 04:10:07 PM »
I would never sub good mornings for squats or deadlifts...def recommend adding them to the routine..at the end of a squat w/o perhaps

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2008, 05:39:37 PM »
I would never sub good mornings for squats or deadlifts...def recommend adding them to the routine..at the end of a squat w/o perhaps

I have done deadlifts non stop for a long time....I don't see the harm in switching it up a bit.
I hate the State.

jpm101

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2999
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:25 AM »
Good post by Davie. GoodMornings are going to affect the lower back in a different way, giving more of a focus on it. They are not a substitute for regular DL's, but they may improve that lift for most guy's. (GM'ing are not just like, or similar to, DL's or even SLDL's, which some people may think.)  But anyone can exchange GM'ing for DL's in a 6 to 8 week training cycle for improvement and performance. Only down side is that going back to DL'ing after that, you may have to work on the griping power a bit. GM'ing will also help regular squating greatly, giving more power to the core structure (over used term I know) of that lift. In any event, you must work the ab's hard to insure a better balance of strength in that core region.

I will, at times, do nothing but BB Hack Squats and GM'ing in a leg workout. Think of BB Hack Squats as a form of reverse DL's, but with a little more focus on the driving power of the legs than regular DL's. And you are still working the back and traps hard. And not neglecting the grip. A little bias here, these two exercises are two of my favorite movements with regard to size and power. They can both help with gaining strength in squating and DL'ing after awhile.

Some men will do GM'ing while sitting on a bench crossways, which can take the hams pretty much out of the lift. Usually touching the forehead to the bench each rep. You will need two wide awake spotters if trying this with extra heavy weight. Training in a Power Rack can give great power increases, highly recommend it for more serious lifters. Most people are really surprised at how strong the lower back area is when properly trained. Remember though, to train the ab wall just as hard as the lower back for an equal strength balance. Something like a counter weight with no weak link. Good Luck.
F

dov

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3469
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2008, 09:00:38 AM »
great post "JPM" ....agreed with the "core" effect when consistently doing GM's...makes a big strength diff

BDMlift

  • Getbig I
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2008, 12:39:15 PM »
looks like a good example of how people have complicated back problems in later years. can anyone say bulging discs? =3

thewickedtruth

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4077
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 06:50:31 PM »
Good morning are good for the lower back/hammies which in turn helps ur squat/deadlift numbers.

Front squats put some more emphasis on the quads (do them with heals slightly raised), and away from the hammies/ass. Good for tear drop (vastus medialis).

Hows ur HST results (i tried it few years ago wen i 1st started lifting)?

davie

davie is right one this one...don't substitute good mornings FOR your deadlifts..they're two completely different exercises even though they work kinda the same things. Good mornings are more hips, glutes, and hams with lowerback while deadlifts work damn near everything and make you work in a different manner to perform the lift. They both work hadn in hand with developing each other..

adn I've only been doing frontsquats for awhile...but DAMN I LOVE THEM NOW!

Bluto

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33175
  • Well?
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2008, 05:22:51 AM »
goodmornings fucked up bruce lee's back for life!
Z

jpm101

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2999
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2008, 09:05:38 AM »
No malice intended, but inquiring minds want to know.

Bluto: Can you produce a written, signed and sealed legal statement that the actual GoodMorning exercise had, or did, produce a crippling state to the back of said Bruce Lee for the rest of his natural life?  Or do you just think, or read somewhere, it did?

TWT: how can two completely different (as stated by you) exercises "kinda" work the same thing? Not to put words in your mouth (or computer screen) but do you mean that they can blend and complement each other?  Actually the SLDL could be a better all around back builder in this regard. Seeing as how most BB'ers now a days will pull the DL more with the lower back than with the legs and not start from a correct squat position. And also leaning too far forward .

BDMlift: Developing the back and preforming any sound back exercise (as GM'ings), in the correct manner, will insure that a #L-3, L-4 or L-5 disc injury does not happen. Even with advancing age. Quite a few injury prone lower backs are genetic in their nature. And even applied exercise can never insure a 100% normal back.  But in most cases correct exercise can be considered good medicine towards maintaining a healthy back. The focus on lower back exercises can be it's own reward in the long run.

Good Luck.
F

Bluto

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33175
  • Well?
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2008, 09:23:26 AM »
sure i'll get bruce lee to come back from his grave and tell us all on youtube, watch this space for the link
Z

Redwingenator

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 01:28:56 PM »
looks like a good example of how people have complicated back problems in later years. can anyone say bulging discs? =3

A disc injury is a complicated mixture of injury, physiological, and genetic events and overlap in such a complicated way most physicians just say "pulled low back muscle."  I find it hard to believe that 4 sets of good morning exercises performed once per week with good form would cause back problems in later life.

The #1 cause of low back pain I see is due to genetic factors.  You get mom's eyes, dad's nose, why wouldn't you get their facet tropism and narrowed spinal canal?  Take into account the amount of repeated injury to the anular fibers and a history of smoking and commercial driving and you have a classic example of someone with chronic back problems.

Anular fibers tear from the center and progressively work their way outwards.  As they tear outwards towards the outer 1/3 of the disc the nerves that supply the disc start to grow inward along the injury.  This causes progressively worse pain with each repeated injury.  The repeated injury also causes the discs to degenerate faster and sets up potential protrusions, herniations, bone spurs, and stenosis.  The size of the spinal canal is a major factor involved in this because a large canal can accommodate a larger bulge/protrusion than a smaller one.  This is why almost everyone that has an MRI shows at least one bulge in their spine but show no symptoms.  This is why an MRI is useless without a good clinical diagnoses.

I cannot see how a properly performed deadlift or good morning exercise is going to injure a healthy disc unless the disc is not healthy and already injured and the person is stupid and works through their pain causing further injury.  A healthy disc is so strong that straight compressive forces will collapse the vertebra before rupturing the disc.  Although once you introduce a sheer effect with a rotational component causing taughtness in the anular fibers the disc is now in it's weakest state and at it's highest risk of injury.

The short answer is to never work the low back when it hurts.  Always start with light weight and work your way up.  If an exercise causes low back discomfort lower the weight and sets.  If the pain still persists discontinue the exercise.

When a disc is injured especially when nerve compression is involved a monosynaptic reflex is created which causes a spasm of the muscles surrounding the injured area.  Almost everyone (including most doctors) perceives this as a pulled muscle and muscle spasm and not a disc injury especially if there is no radiculopathy.  A typical (bad) course of treatment is aimed at directly relieving the muscle spasm and not the disc injury and inflammation around the disc.  If the disc injury is treated the muscle spasm will reduce.  As a rule of thumb, treat all low back pain as a disc injury as that is the most likely cause.  (use ice NOT HEAT, lay with your legs elevated, and try a series of low back manipulations from an MD,DO,DC.)

thewickedtruth

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4077
Re: Questions about Good Mornings and Front Squats...
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2008, 07:34:30 PM »
No malice intended, but inquiring minds want to know.

Bluto: Can you produce a written, signed and sealed legal statement that the actual GoodMorning exercise had, or did, produce a crippling state to the back of said Bruce Lee for the rest of his natural life?  Or do you just think, or read somewhere, it did?

.
TWT: how can two completely different (as stated by you) exercises "kinda" work the same thing? Not to put words in your mouth (or computer screen) but do you mean that they can blend and complement each other?  Actually the SLDL could be a better all around back builder in this regard. Seeing as how most BB'ers now a days will pull the DL more with the lower back than with the legs and not start from a correct squat position. And also leaning too far forward
BDMlift: Developing the back and preforming any sound back exercise (as GM'ings), in the correct manner, will insure that a #L-3, L-4 or L-5 disc injury does not happen. Even with advancing age. Quite a few injury prone lower backs are genetic in their nature. And even applied exercise can never insure a 100% normal back.  But in most cases correct exercise can be considered good medicine towards maintaining a healthy back. The focus on lower back exercises can be it's own reward in the long run.

Good Luck.

yeah didn't think of that...sldl's are a good blender for sure!