Anyone else think deadlifts are overrated?

[Thealmightyronald]

I do. I can get better back development from t-bar rows, pullovers, bent-over rows, pulldowns, hammer strength rows one arm rows... so why do them? I can do various shrugs(db, barbell in front, barbell in back) to develop my traps so what reason should I do deads for? The erectors get worked plenty during about half of those movements above.

[Thealmightyronald]

I used to think the same thing.

Start doing deadlifts, and you'll be amazed how much stronger your back will become overall.

I'm rowing all varieties AT LEAST 40-50 pounds more, doing sets of 25 extremely wide grip pull ups (when I used to do 10), and feel stronger all around. I haven't changed my diet, or routine, the only variable was; I STARTED DOING DEADLIFTS.

Wow really? I haven't noticed much difference yet. When during your workout do you do them, beginning or end?

[NoCalBbEr]

no way!! its not the second best exercise after squats for  no reason.  deadlift are not just for back  but your other muscles.  all the other back movements don't hit the whole body. if anything its underrated for the  muscle it hits.

[JasonH]

Deadlifts are a great movement for all-over back strength but I don't do them with a full range of motion. I do them in the rack and only bring the bar down to knee level and then come back up again - anything lower and I start feeling my hamstrings coming into play too much - I'd rather isolate the lower back than start involving the legs.

[The Squadfather]

I do. I can get better back development from t-bar rows, pullovers, bent-over rows, pulldowns, hammer strength rows one arm rows... so why do them? I can do various shrugs(db, barbell in front, barbell in back) to develop my traps so what reason should I do deads for? The erectors get worked plenty during about half of those movements above.

you're right, all the rowing movements and pulldowns and chins will give the lats and upper back WAY more development and growth but deadlifts do give those muscles on either side of the spine brutal thickness, i don't think they're as necessary as squats though.

[Thealmightyronald]

you're right, all the rowing movements and pulldowns and chins will give the lats and upper back WAY more development and growth but deadlifts do give those muscles on either side of the spine brutal thickness, i don't think they're as necessary as squats though.

Yeah i'll always do squats... I just have a hard time to find motivation for deads when I believe other exercises do more for me.

[The Squadfather]

Yeah i'll always do squats... I just have a hard time to find motivation for deads when I believe other exercises do more for me.

i would say that if a person didn't do barbell rows then they should deadlift but personally barbell rows do more for me than ANY back movement has ever done.

[The Master]

i would say that if a person didn't do barbell rows then they should deadlift but personally barbell rows do more for me than ANY back movement has ever done.

Does the weight on the barbell row get to heavy for your lower back? If so, how do you deal with it?

[The Squadfather]

Does the weight on the barbell row get to heavy for your lower back? If so, how do you deal with it?

it never gets to me and the funny thing is that i train back the DAY AFTER legs and heavy squats, i always use a belt for my heaviest sets of squats but i don't use it at all for heavy rows, typically my back workout is either 4 sets chins or pulldowns, 4 heavy sets of barbell rows and 4 sets of heavy db rows, every once in awhile i'll throw in some deads but not often.

[Thealmightyronald]

i would say that if a person didn't do barbell rows then they should deadlift but personally barbell rows do more for me than ANY back movement has ever done.

That's what i'm sayin. Wouldn't any barbell row do just as much for your erectors? Think about it, on a t-bar you stretch and squeeze. The t-bar row works biceps,lats,traps,erectors all in one. The deadlift works hamstrings, quads, erectors, traps. But i'm not there to train legs, i'm there to train  back. Same goes for a bent-over row.

I think it's a mental thing... those two movements just work so much more, IMO, than a deadlift and that could be why I get more motivated to do them. I know people say it's a full body movement, but i'd rather focus on each bodypart a day at a time than do a full body movement.

[The Squadfather]

That's what i'm sayin. Wouldn't any barbell row do just as much for your erectors? Think about it, on a t-bar you stretch and squeeze. The t-bar row works biceps,lats,traps,erectors. Same goes for a bent-over row. I think it's a mental thing... those two movements just work so much more, IMO, than a deadlift. I know people say it's a full body movement, but i'd rather focus on each bodypart a day at a time.

yeah what i meant was that the spinal erectors are the PRIME MOVERS and the muscle most stressed on deads but you're right they do recieve a lot of stress on bb rows and t bars and ESPECIALLY squats, think about how much stress the erectors go through holding a 400-500 pound bar on your back for the duration of a set, i don't think deads are NECESSARY for bodybuilding as much as rows and overhead pulls.

[The Squadfather]

even the deadlifting MONSTER himself Ronnie Coleman has said the the ONLY irreplacable back movemnet in his workouts was BARBELL ROWS, it's the one movement he said was ALWAYS in his routine.

[Thealmightyronald]

yeah what i meant was that the spinal erectors are the PRIME MOVERS and the muscle most stressed on deads but you're right they do recieve a lot of stress on bb rows and t bars and ESPECIALLY squats, think about how much stress the erectors go through holding a 400-500 pound bar on your back for the duration of a set, i don't think deads are NECESSARY for bodybuilding as much as rows and overhead pulls.

YUP!

I usually go pretty heavy on squats and I always feel my erectors working and it feels alot better and safer than a deadlift. I like SLDL's though. I go down far enough so the weight is a few inches from the ground and then I don't lock out, I prefer SLDL which I do after squats on leg day.

Do you know if Dorian ever did conventional deadlift? He does SLDL's, but i've never heard about him or seen him do regular deads. If he didn't, then it just goes to show you can build the best back in the world without them.

[The Squadfather]

YUP!

I usually go pretty heavy on squats and I always feel my erectors working and it feels alot better and safer than a deadlift. I like SLDL's though. I go down far enough so the weight is a few inches from the ground and then I don't lock out, I prefer SLDL which I do after squats on leg day.

Do you know if Dorian ever did conventional deadlift? He does SLDL's, but i've never heard about him or seen him do regular deads. If he didn't, then it just goes to show you can build the best back in the world without them.

he did 'em in his video but only did 455 for 5-6 and didn't even touch the floor between reps, he only lowered the bar to mid shin and he did them as the next to last movement in his back workout after Nautilus Pullovers, barbell rows, Hammer Strength pulldowns and Hammer Strength one arm rows where you sit upright and pull straight back with the chest supported, he used almost as much weight on barbell rows as he did on deads 425 vs. 455.

[Thealmightyronald]

he did 'em in his video but only did 455 for 5-6 and didn't even touch the floor between reps, he only lowered the bar to mid shin and he did them as the next to last movement in his back workout after Nautilus Pullovers, barbell rows, Hammer Strength pulldowns and Hammer Strength one arm rows where you sit upright and pull straight back with the chest supported, he used almost as much weight on barbell rows as he did on deads 425 vs. 455.

So they probably didn't contribute too much to his back.

[The Squadfather]

So they probably didn't contribute too much to his back.

who knows but i'd say that the rows and other pulls did more.

[Bluto]

yeah theyre overrated

[Thealmightyronald]

My advice, as always is :to each his own.

I personally felt, and even argued with others on this board that deads were worthless...
Just give them a try, and see if it helps you at all.  I personally feel a lot stronger, overall since doing
deadlifts. My lower back has never been thick (on each side of spine), and now it's developing.

The thing is, if your lower back is stronger, when you're doing t-bar rows, you can focus more on the lats,
and less on erectors.

I'll try to explain this in easier terms.  If you were standing up, doing curls, with a barbell, and had to hold the bar, with X amount of weight on it, half way up......
Would it be easier to hold that weight in place if you had been doing heavy curls on a regular basis?

Maybe a shitty analogy... but hopefully you get the point.

Regardless, deadlifts certainly wont HURT you (unless you use shitty form). So try them out, and see what you think!

I agree. But i've been doing them for long enough now and figure my lower back gets more out of other movements.

[Bluto]

thats just it, they might hurt you

[pumpster]

Regardless, deadlifts certainly wont HURT you (unless you use shitty form).

The problem is, that's not true. They can hurt you badly using good form, especially using heavy weights and low reps.

There are other alternatives, like indirect back work from other exercises, or hypers, good mornings, etc. If you're gonna do them IMO you should keep the reps high and consider rack pulls/partials, as someone said.

[thewickedtruth]

deadlifts, squats, etc. are all KEY movements imho to overall great body development. If you don't like them then don't do them... everyone feels differently about them. But those that do them versus those that don't..i am sure you'd notice a difference in over all strength, muscle density/size, and the obvious other benefits you get in other exercises because deads work your..

forearms
biceps
traps
entire back
hams
glutes
quads
and core...

not many other exercises can have that kinda list. Plus it takes more effort to pull dead weight off the floor than it does damn near anything else. If you do'nt like pulling because it feels funky or you're not good at it...learn more about how to deadlift and tweak your technique to suit you best. Speaking from experience.. I've grown more in a year from deadlifting than I EVER did the 5 years I didn't deadlift. No matter where you're at or your level of experience to not do deadlifts for no apparent reason is just leaving more plates for hte rest of us! 


And you have the potential to get hurt doing any exercise..i'ts the risk you take when you get in the gym. So if you use good form, good technique (two different things), and train smart... it's just as safe as everything else in there.

[pumpster]

I'm no expert, but have never heard this before.
I'm not asking as a smartass, I'm asking because I don't know, and have obviously incorrectly assumed.
Using GOOD form, how can deadlifts hurt you anymore than squats, heavy benching, etc?

Heavy weight with low reps can hurt you on all those exercises. The problem with DLs IMO is that there is added risk above and beyond that with other exercises, because:

(1) the ROM is so short that huge weights can be lifted relative to bodyweight, (2) it's not a multi-joint exercise like those others, it's basically one motion involving/generating tremendous stress on the fulcrum, the back, thus the leverage/stress on the back & core is huge, more than on those other exercises, (3) injuries to the back affect more of the body, thereby impeding training more when a problem develops.

Therefore, the downside with DLs is higher IMO while the upside might be there but replacable by alternatives-indirect exercises, substitutes or if DLs are done, higher reps or partials.

[thewickedtruth]

Heavy weight with low reps can hurt you on all those exercises. The added problems with DLs IMO are (1) the ROM is so short that a lot of weight can be used, and the leverage is so great that the stresses are huge, plus (2) injuries to the back affect more of the body, impede training a lot more.

if you deadlift with proper form..and get low on the pull like you should..a traditional deadlift..sumo or conventional doesn't do as much to your back as you might think. I can see that thinking more along the lines of stiff leg'd deads or romanians...and even goodmornings are the same. But again...you can get hurt doing ANY heavy exercise..you just do your best to prepare yourself before you begin the movement. IF your'e CNS, muscle structure, etc. is used to it..it should have no problem... but if you go from only workin with 315 and 405 to trying 545 right after 405 yeah you're asking for trouble.

[pumpster]

if you deadlift with proper form..and get low on the pull like you should..a traditional deadlift..sumo or conventional doesn't do as much to your back as you might think. I can see that thinking more along the lines of stiff leg'd deads or romanians...and even goodmornings are the same. But again...you can get hurt doing ANY heavy exercise..you just do your best to prepare yourself before you begin the movement. IF your'e CNS, muscle structure, etc. is used to it..it should have no problem... but if you go from only workin with 315 and 405 to trying 545 right after 405 yeah you're asking for trouble.

I added to my last post, take a look. I don't think the risks and stresses on those other exercises, which are multi-joint compound exercises, are the same. With DLs you've essentially got all the stress running through the vertabrae using only one fulcrum, only one point bearing the weight. DLs are barely a compound exercise; closer to an isolation movement, given that all the pressure & stress passing through a sole point of flexion on the lower back.

Add in the fact that i think the benefits aren't as great, factoring in substitutes for it.

On any exercise where heavier weights are possible i'd say stay away from low reps with heavy weights, which increases risk and isn't optimal for muscle development anyway.

Combine risk and benefit and you've got a different potential cost/benefit from DLs.

Some people just aren't susceptible to injury, and can handle good weight on any exercise wihtout getting injured. That doesn't mean that others won't get injured though.

[KSA]

We can also use a trap bar