Total exhaustion required for growth?

[under_rated]

Hey Guys,
I used to have a training partner who would always spot me to help go to total failure. I would leave the gym feeling totally exhausted. Now i train alone and cannot push as hard without the spot. I leave the gym without the same exhausted feeling in the muscle.

Does this mean i am not progressing at the same rate? I am not asking about a HIT vs volume training, rather i am trying to work out whether i should be doing more sets or drop sets ect, to make sure i get the same feeling.

Can you still grow without going to total failure?

Sorry if this has been asked before, actually i pretty sure it would have been...

[smaul]

Not necesarily.  I made my best gains when I started training alone.  Could be because I improved my diet.  Training alone however, does have its benefets, main one being the speed at which you can train.  You can train at your own pace.  I found that speeding my workout up a bit helped me a lot.  I think this exhausted the muscles better.

The hardest part of training alone at first is the motivation.  It can be harder to get into the gym, it can be harder to push yourself through barriers etc.  Just use different techniques to go beyond failure.  Instead or forced reps pre-exhaust the muscle.  Or strip the weights, superset etc. (check the so-called weider principles)

Many people think that unless you are completely exhausted after training you have achieved nothing, these are probably the same people who feel they need to be cripplingly sore the day after training.  Train smart and hard, eat properly and you will grow regardless of whether you are training alone.

[_bruce_]

I prefer a training partner when doing benches or something - just to be secure at the last rep.
Other than that - alone is fine, though I believe a fellow gym tiger can bring that extra motivation.

[JasonH]

I much prefer having a training partner to help me get to total failure on all my sets, especially on pressing movements like chest and shoulder and tricep work. I've found that going to total failure as opposed to training to failure on my own stimulates the muscles better and I feel that I've made considerable improvements when having the training partner there to squeeze that last few reps out of you, or to help with forced reps and negatives. Tha way, I feel as though I've done myself justice in the gym. Put it this way, my diet hasn't changed, my sleep patterns haven't changed, but the one thing that has is the intensity in the gym and that's what's made all the difference.

[haider]

I much prefer having a training partner to help me get to total failure on all my sets, especially on pressing movements like chest and shoulder and tricep work. I've found that going to total failure as opposed to training to failure on my own stimulates the muscles better and I feel that I've made considerable improvements when having the training partner there to squeeze that last few reps out of you, or to help with forced reps and negatives. Tha way, I feel as though I've done myself justice in the gym. Put it this way, my diet hasn't changed, my sleep patterns haven't changed, but the one thing that has is the intensity in the gym and that's what's made all the difference.

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEZE IT MR YATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[webcake]

I train alone. I kind of like it that way. Im pretty quiet in the gym. Don't really talk a whole lot, just do what ive gotta do.

[thewickedtruth]

HELL NO! Never train to complete failure and exhaustion..even a week between workouts for hte same body part isnt' enough... working to complete failure is BAD!

[webcake]

HELL NO! Never train to complete failure and exhaustion..even a week between workouts for hte same body part isnt' enough... working to complete failure is BAD!

I don't know if its BAD, but i certainly think people, particularly beginners, put way too much emphasis on going to absolute failure on every set and exercise.

[thewickedtruth]

I don't know if its BAD, but i certainly think people, particularly beginners, put way too much emphasis on going to absolute failure on every set and exercise.

no way in hell would you want to completely break down every ounce of muscle capability on a regular basis..even if you're a juiced lifter there's just no way to recover from it.


my advice..do it for two weeks..i gaurentee you you won't see shit but your numbers going down the drain. been there done that.

[webcake]

no way in hell would you want to completely break down every ounce of muscle capability on a regular basis..even if you're a juiced lifter there's just no way to recover from it.


my advice..do it for two weeks..i gaurentee you you won't see shit but your numbers going down the drain. been there done that.

I guess so, it just seems like a hell of a lot of people, pros too, do it

[thewickedtruth]

I guess so, it just seems like a hell of a lot of people, pros too, do it

yeah but to failure wiht a particular weight..or failure every so often to shock the system. if you do one big drop set every exercise for every body part..you'll eat yourself alive trying to recover from it. And when people hear about training to failure..they think complete failure on everything til they can no longer move.

[webcake]

yeah but to failure wiht a particular weight..or failure every so often to shock the system. if you do one big drop set every exercise for every body part..you'll eat yourself alive trying to recover from it. And when people hear about training to failure..they think complete failure on everything til they can no longer move.

So what about calves? I always go to failure on every set for calves. I just assumed they were the type of muscle that can support that type of training.

[davie]

HELL NO! Never train to complete failure and exhaustion..even a week between workouts for hte same body part isnt' enough... working to complete failure is BAD!

Hey bro, im gonna have to politely disagree bro, u sed urself u like DC training, well DC has u failing on every set with rest/pauses between sets....for almost every body part (except back thickness moves and legs).

davie

[thewickedtruth]

Hey bro, im gonna have to politely disagree bro, u sed urself u like DC training, well DC has u failing on every set with rest/pauses between sets....for almost every body part (except back thickness moves and legs).

davie

dc is to failure with a certain weight on any one particular exercise...total failure..complete muscle fatigue which is accomplished like one big drop set. Let me see how I can explain this because alot of people have been asking me this lately. DC and R/P you use one particular weight to failure..you warm up then go to your heavy set and do it til you can't do it no more. When people read or hear you say COMPLETE failure..they think you go until you can't lift ANYTHING! Not even 5lbs when you're done. They start with say 100lbs..go to 90lbs.then to whatever until they can no longer lift a damn thing. THAT is complete and total muscle failure when the muscle is no longer pretty much functional. So when someone asked going to complete failure I assume they mean to the point they can't pick up another lb versus going to complete failure wiht a PARTICULAR weight.

That's where I always see alot of confusion... does that make sense?

[davie]

dc is to failure with a certain weight on any one particular exercise...total failure..complete muscle fatigue which is accomplished like one big drop set. Let me see how I can explain this because alot of people have been asking me this lately. DC and R/P you use one particular weight to failure..you warm up then go to your heavy set and do it til you can't do it no more. When people read or hear you say COMPLETE failure..they think you go until you can't lift ANYTHING! Not even 5lbs when you're done. They start with say 100lbs..go to 90lbs.then to whatever until they can no longer lift a damn thing. THAT is complete and total muscle failure when the muscle is no longer pretty much functional. So when someone asked going to complete failure I assume they mean to the point they can't pick up another lb versus going to complete failure wiht a PARTICULAR weight.

That's where I always see alot of confusion... does that make sense?

yeh i know what total failure is, some would say total failure is when u take ur body to 3 stages of failure, i/e/ positive,negative and static failure?!

I thought u wer condemming any sort of failure (i misunderstood u).

davie

[tonymctones]

I work out by myself the majority of the time and dont go to failure on everything, but if i have a spotter on a certain exercise and i dont get the number im shooting for I will usually do negatives if i trust the guy to my number. If not ill usually do drop sets till i get there. I dont think i could go to complete failure on every set and move afterwards, I do tend to like to go to failure on the last set of exercises that will allow me to or at least do a drop set or two just to fry that muscle as much as i can. but i hit each muscle group once a week right now if i hit them any more i doubt i could hit them as hard as i did and make any gains.

[Slintowin4424]

I dont believe in failure but heavily that if your not exhausted your not training hard enough train 100 percent or get outta the way so others can

[Emmortal]

I dont believe in failure but heavily that if your not exhausted your not training hard enough train 100 percent or get outta the way so others can

Oh come on Slin, don't you like to chat on your iPhone on your 20 minute rests in between sets?

Last night some guy tok 1.5 hours to work out biceps only....  I did quads, hams, calves and shoulder + 30 minutes cardio in that time heh.

[mitchyboy]

I think your the only one who's thinking that way wicked When did training to failure, I.E. momentary muscle fatigue, or inability to complete another rep on your own, become 1 gigantic drop set till your quivering on the floor, like a lump of mush, for every set, of every exercise, every time you train. Someone needs to explain what training to failure is to you

[AVBG]

The issue seems to be about training intensity and if you need a training partner to push you to get to the desired next level you might need to think about varying  and trying different training philosophies.